UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45
I've been trying to learn some fast picking very methodically...here's how it's going
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I recently posted some theories about learning to play slowly vs fast and so I'm now experimenting with my own playing development. I thought there might be some interest in a real life example of practicing progress.
Bear in mind that I have never really systematically learned something this way and never play fast picked runs.
Anyway, it's the fast run up in the Gary Moore/Thin Lizzy 'Out in the Fields' solo. 16th notes at 170-odd bpm on the record so it's incredibly fast (to me) and I think probably ultimately out of reach.
A very kind forumite here gave me some tab.
I've been keeping a log of progress so perhaps it's easiest to just copy/paste my log here.
The process is just sitting at my desk and turning the metronome on and plodding away at it carefully. I'm generally attempting to play it 3 times in a row with no mistakes before progressing to the next bpm. I realise that there may be some debate on the number of times with no mistakes. At lower bpms I was getting to about 7 or 8 times with no mistakes, but at higher bpms it has got a lot harder to be consistent.
25 Sep | 30 mins | did 54bpm | | 25 Sep | 60 mins | | | 25 Sep | 30 mins | 66bpm | did it immediately | 25 Sep | 20 mins | 72bpm | fell apart at 73bpm, went back to 66bpm and couldn't do it. pick up at 66 tomorrow. | 26 Sep | spent about 30 minutes | 66bpm | could only just do 66bpm. fell apart and had to go back to build up | 27 Sep | an hour | 69bpm | could just do 69bpm. only just though. not reliable. | 28 Sep | 20 minutes | 62bpm | went back to 62bpm and could only just muddle through, unreliably. | 28 Sep | 30 minuts | 84bpm | did a video, went through 76bpm and then up to 84bpm. can do it, but not very clean and not at all reliable | 1 Oct | 30 minutes | 88bpm | spent a lot of time at 70odd. then did it twice through at 88bpm, but tiny bit messy. | 3 Oct | 40. minutes | 72bpm | got stuck on last bit. picking couldn't stay alternating. not sure what the problem is. | 3 Oct | 30 minutes | 88bpm | managed it cleanly at 88, but only a couple of times. tried it at 96bpm - no chance. tried at 92bpm and got close. | 4 Oct | 20 minutes | 92bpm | managed it once or twice at 92bpm. tried 96bpm, but there is a fault in my picking on the first 2 bars that stops it. |
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I also had to video my picking and watch it back to spot an error in my picking.
Conclusions so far:
- It's relatively easy to keep pounding away at it. There is some feeling of frustration, but in general you feel like you are working through a process which you can calmly trust.
- It takes a LOT of time
- At about 90-odd bpm it sounds like I'm actually playing some music so it has got a bit more satisfying
- I have made the same few mistakes on the 2nd 2 bars many times over every time the speed goes up and it takes a while to resolve. It's not a mistake of technique, I just can't do it.
- I have now identified an error in my picking on the first 2 bars that I didn't know about when going slower. So I have to go back and get rid of that now.
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I can see that it would be slow, and I think by focussing just on one part it could also be painful and boring. Personally I would do what you’re doing but with a selection of different parts, increasing in difficulty and mix it up with exercises for right and left hands.
I've been playing many years but compared to a lot of people my technique is sloppy.
I've tried the 'build up the tempo' approach many times when working with scales.
My current approach seems to be working better. I just started to play fast, very fast.
At first it sounded awful and I missed so many notes. But now it's getting better. I can't do it every time but there are times when I'm playing way way faster than I ever did before and are hitting all the notes cleanly and sounding good.
My conclusion is that practicing things slowly and methodically is a really good idea. It builds strength, accuracy, fine motor control, stamina etc and needs to be done.
I think playing fast is a different skill and there is not necessarily a bridge from one to the other. I've noticed that when playing fast my hand position is subtly different, I hold the pick a little different. I would never have figured those out by building up speed.
Anyway - keep us posted how you get on. I'm not suggesting that my way will work for others but seems to be working for me at the moment.
Look up speed bursts + Ben Higgins , Tom Hess , howtopracticeguitar
I'm totally with you on the 'bursts' and that playing fast is different.
That's what I'm testing out. At the moment I'm trying to play something really slowly and methodically to see how long it takes and what it feels like. I'm going to try another piece to try the 'burst' method.
Any suggestions for a few bars of 16th notes? Preferably something famous.
I've just spent 30 minutes sorting out my alternate picking in the first 2 bars (sorted). I needed to move strings with economy picking rather than alternate in that section a couple of times.
Just done it once, with some sloppiness, but all the notes there, at 100bpm. Yay me!
https://www.instagram.com/insta.guitarstuff/
Have been a bit busy so not quite as much practicing.
I can play it fairly reliably at 96bpm now.
Had a bit of a dabble this morning seeing how far I can push it. 100bpm, not too bad.
112bpm, I can kind of doing it messily, but it seems like it's a completely different challenge at that speed.
https://www.instagram.com/insta.guitarstuff/
I did do this sort of drilling for a while ages ago, but later on discovered that my technique wasn't quite right. It wasn't awful but it did need to change in order for me to improve.
This video helped me a lot around that time, it brings it right back to basics, even if you're an advanced player I think it's worth a recap:
The song that really made me fix my right hand was Bark at the Moon by Ozzy Osbourne
You can feel free to tell me to mind my own business :-) these comments aren't aimed at you specifically, more for the benefit of anyone reading, because that was my experience
I might get back into daily drills as well, you've inspired me
oh totally!! If I'm playing out I revert to my usual way of playing, but listening to me practicing this stuff is like listening to a teenager try to shred!! Will hopefully get there or thereabouts though, but it's going to sound crap for a bit!! I still drop my pick anyway btw. Embarrassing but it still happens...always in lessons too!!
He also does close up videos of the picking hands of well known virtuoso players, and analyses their techniques
This one in particular is a fun watch:
As for practice I watched John Petrucci's video and he was big on speed bursting.. it helped me.
If alternate picking is your focus (not economy) then Paul Gilbert is the man - he dropped something on YT recently with a little exercise on improving upstroke strength. It's pretty much always the weak link for people (not for Paul though is he started playing using all upstrokes) and you always need to work on the weakest area.. I did this for a while and thought 'why am I bothering with this?' It made a big difference in the end..
Hope that helps
Si
Not sure I can tell if I'm accenting as the metronome is accenting, but it's smooth and in time at 150bpm.
https://www.instagram.com/insta.guitarstuff/
nah it's not really there. On the occasion that it is, slightly, I fake it using my own method. Close enough to fool non-players (who, to be fair, probably don't really care anyway!)
I try to incorporate downward and upward slant (I think that's old CtC terminology now). Before all this, I used to hold the pick showing as little as possible with my index finger only slightly bent. I probably show 5mm more pick these days and the index had to curl significantly more to avoid fouling the strings...took some getting used to!
One thing I've been trying to do is play powerchords with alternating strokes, making the upstrokes as powerful and as the downstrokes so there is equal stress on both directions. I think this involves the angle shift of the pick you mentioned, the same principle but exaggerated over two or three strings. This is with the hand hovering over the strings, not palm muted
A bit disappointed with myself as last night the whole piece was flowing fairly smoothly at 100bpm, but this morning 80 was comfortable and 96/100bpm was not.
Oh well.
https://www.instagram.com/insta.guitarstuff/
I don't really feel any weakness in my upstroke although I will have a look at it to see if it will help.
Thumb too close - yes, that happens to me. I haven't perfected the 'ideal' way to hold my pick, and my fingers sweat so it moves about a bit between takes.
Arm too stiff - yes, totally agree. At very slow speeds I can get exactly that feel you describe of 'strumming' loosely through the lines, but at higher speeds I'm either a bit tense (due to concentrating) and/or am trying to keep control of it to maintain the speed. I have previously spent time learning fast SRV things and I can keep my arm looser for that.
https://www.instagram.com/insta.guitarstuff/