I've been trying to learn some fast picking very methodically...here's how it's going

allen · October 2022

roberty said:

@allen looks like a lot of movement is coming from your shoulder. I would try to isolate the movement to the wrist for exercises like this. I think it will help in the long run

I agree. My shoulder looks wrong. Have tried to loosen up my wrist on it this evening.

roberty · January 2023

Hope everyone is doing well

I saw this exercise today and thought of this thread. The exercise can be modified to focus on inside picking, outside picking, downward pick slanting, upward pick slanting, or economy picking. It can be transposed onto any pair of strings

My preference is for downward pick slanting so I will focus on the others

Really impressed at how easy it is to isolate the various movements with this pattern

CoffeeAndTV · January 2023

Many, many moons ago I learned by tracing Paul Gilbert’s picking arm, wrist and hand angle from Intense Rock on paper and copied the same in a mirror.

I’m the past year or two I’ve revisited my picking and used Troy Grady’s courses which were very helpful and now I don’t really know how I picked originally.

I think I’m now picking in a hybrid Gilbert and Grady style. One area that is giving me problems is bending my picking thumb when changing strings. I’ve seen Gilbert do when he changes strings. I’m slightly conscious that I’m losing some
speed/efficiency due to the thumb moving.

Thing is, none of this happened when I was just playing and not thinking about it.

roberty · January 2023

I've been working on economy picking. Making some okay progress but I expect it will take a while yet

stratman3142 · January 2023

Not that I've got a hope in hell of playing it up to speed, but I've been trying to work out the left hand fingering for the fast run in 'Out In The Fields', by slowing down the video in Yoube (below) from 2:46.

This is what I've got so far. When he gets onto the 2nd string, there appears to be a position shift on the beat, which might be a slide-up of his 4th finger. But I know he would often use his 3rd finger instead of his pinkie. It's difficult from the camera angle.

Click on the image of the tab to get a clearer view.

https://i.imgur.com/aY13F5D.png

roberty · January 2023

@stratman3142 that's good going! For the position change it looks like he's doubling up on the C note on the G string, playing it first with his 3rd finger and then again with his 1st

There's a few hammered on triplets in the top part in the second half too

Listening at 0.25x speed on YouTube

digitalkettle · January 2023

@stratman3142 I was obsessing over the album version for far too long and came up with this:

Like you, I thought that most of his position shifting was performed along the B string...gets a lot more legato...and he appears to slide right through fret 13 as if he's trying to keep up with himself

(see link in signature for full transcription)

roberty · January 2023

Gosh they don't make music videos like they used to do they

roberty · January 2023

@digitalkettle @stratman3142 what transcription software are you using and is there a free version? I think I've spotted something

stratman3142 · January 2023

roberty said:

@digitalkettle @stratman3142 what transcription software are you using and is there a free version? I think I've spotted something

I'm using Guitar Pro 8, but I don't think there's a free version. I suppose you might be able to do it with Musescore, which I also use. But I find Guitar Pro best for guitar specific stuff and Musescore best for general purpose band charts.

digitalkettle · January 2023

GP8 here also.

stratman3142 · January 2023

@digitalkettle thanks for your transcription. The fingering is slightly different in a couple of places, but we appear to have the same notes, except for the last 11 notes in your transcription which are different to mine. I'll have another listen with a clear head tomorrow.

I also notice that you move on to the first string quicker than me at the end, whereas I keep sliding up the 2nd string apart from the last few notes.

roberty · January 2023

roberty said:

@digitalkettle @stratman3142 what transcription software are you using and is there a free version? I think I've spotted something

Actually I might be hearing things. I'm on a lot of cold medication. Been experimenting with position changes though which is fun. At those speeds it becomes an exercise in logistics

stratman3142 · January 2023

@digitalkettle yes on re-listening, I think your last 11 notes are correct. I'll edit my transcription tomorrow.

digitalkettle · January 2023

stratman3142 said:

@digitalkettle yes on re-listening, I think your last 11 notes are correct. I'll edit my transcription tomorrow.

Yours has made me question my fingering choices for the 2nd bar of sixteenth notes…although I am wary that the audio and video are not one and the same, obviously.

I think he starts the big run in classic brute force alternate picking mode…then almost derails on his way up the B string given that it’s such an unusual pattern (what do you think of that 11/13/15 move under the microscope?)…then a nice strong ending of course

digitalkettle · January 2023

Yep...revamp:

stratman3142 · January 2023

I know what you mean about being wary of the audio and video. They wouldn't have been done at the same time, so really he's miming to his own solo.

Perhaps we shouldn't put things under too much of a microscope. Fantastic guitar playing, with loads of attitude. And any slight imperfections add to the human feel.

I couldn't get near that speed with largely picking. I'm interested in knowing whether I could get near it in my own way, by using a mixture of picking and hammer-ons and pull offs. Which might mean different fingering choices, but it's interesting to try to understand the original fingering choices as a starting point.

I have a sense that he's really targeting landing on the the 'on beats', which helps make things sound rhythmically accurate.

Check out the various live clips of 'Out In The Fields'. They're different every time.

roberty · January 2023

Yeah ascending diatonic fours. There's a start note and an end note. At that speed the nuances are academic. What's nice about this here is how cleanly it's played. Some players break the pattern at times to make it easier which is where the forensic approach comes in

stratman3142 · January 2023

Here's my latest attempt to transcribe it.

@digitalkettle ;I think we've got the same notes now but my fingering is slightly different to yours at the end. I continue to slide up the 2nd string where you move on the the 1st string. Also I expect he's probably using his 3rd finger higher up the neck instead of the 4th, which would certainly make sense for that final bend.

So in yours you've got the 11 13 15 movement as all with the 2nd finger, which seems a bit whacky

but who knows.

I think you're right that there are some hammer-ons and pull-offs, which I haven't notated.

https://i.imgur.com/CUuzYLG.png

Vibetronic · January 2023

digitalkettle said:

Yep...revamp:

Thanks; I’m going to have a go at that and test my newly acquired picking skills (which is to say I’ve really concentrated on it for weeks since I last commented in this thread, and very occasionally it sounds ok!! I think it’ll be another year or two before it’s anywhere near what I would class as good!

)

Vibetronic · January 2023

stratman3142 said:

I know what you mean about being wary of the audio and video. They wouldn't have been done at the same time, so really he's miming to his own solo.

Perhaps we shouldn't put things under too much of a microscope. Fantastic guitar playing, with loads of attitude. And any slight imperfections add to the human feel.

I couldn't get near that speed with largely picking. I'm interested in knowing whether I could get near it in my own way, by using a mixture of picking and hammer-ons and pull offs. Which might mean different fingering choices, but it's interesting to try to understand the original fingering choices as a starting point.

I have a sense that he's really targeting landing on the the 'on beats', which helps make things sound rhythmically accurate.

Check out the various live clips of 'Out In The Fields'. They're different every time.

Well I can do the first bit up to speed until the bit where it starts crossing from the G to B string. You will be able to do it, just takes a lot of practice to retrain your legato mindset (like mine!). I can't remember how long I was plugging away at it now, but it took me I think 18 months to even get the action right. There's no way I could have played this with picking 3 years ago. I'll show you at the next meet-up (although a lot of it is in all the Troy Grady stuff etc - the main thing is just lots of really hard work, unfortunately).

(When I say I can do it up to speed - that's being totally relaxed, and I still get tension creeping in after a few minutes as it's not something I've really gone hard at for the whole time I've been playing)

roberty · January 2023

Not sure how accurate the transcription is, is but this interpretation features a logical way of crossing the B and G strings

Obviously he can play like a mother but his synchronisation gets a bit sloppy in places when he plays it slowly. I can't get my head around that

AK99 · January 2023

stratman3142 said:

Not that I've got a hope in hell of playing it up to speed, but I've been trying to work out the left hand fingering for the fast run in 'Out In The Fields', by slowing down the video in Yoube (below) from 2:46.

Off topic - apologies - but what is that black superstrat type guitar that he plays the solo (c. 2:30 onwards) on ?

stratman3142 · January 2023

@roberty In my transcription, I was trying to figure out what Gary Moore was doing from the video by looking at his hand position on the neck. It's difficult to see exactly what he's doing, especially as he moves up the neck. But there are other fingerings that work and might be easier for other players.

You've got more chance of getting it because your picking technique is better than mine. I rely on a lot of hammer-ons and pull-offs for most stuff.

digitalkettle · January 2023

AK99 said:

stratman3142 said:

Not that I've got a hope in hell of playing it up to speed, but I've been trying to work out the left hand fingering for the fast run in 'Out In The Fields', by slowing down the video in Yoube (below) from 2:46.

This is what I've got so far. When he gets onto the 2nd string, there appears to be a position shift on the beat, which might be a slide-up of his 4th finger. But I know he would often use his 3rd finger instead of his pinkie. It's difficult from the camera angle.

Click on the image of the tab to get a clearer view.

https://i.imgur.com/aY13F5D.png

Off topic - apologies - but what is that black superstrat type guitar that he plays the solo (c. 2:30 onwards) on ?

Looks like some kind of Ibanez Roadstar:
https://www.groundguitar.com/gary-moore-gear/gary-moores-ibanez-roadstar-ii-rs-530-bk/

AK99 · January 2023

^ That looks like it for sure.

Hanx DK

viz · January 2023

That run always reminds me of Satriani in Crushing Day - alternating between semiquavers and triplets - it's excellent.

3:10

musteatbrain · January 2023

It is very similar.
Both great solos.
Worth noting Gary Moore plays with a very specific wrist position and in this lick the plectrum motion comes from the wrist.

He wrests his hand on the guitar so the pad of his hand under his thumb is in contact with the bass side of the bridge, however, the pad of his hand under his little finger is usually only very lightly touching the strings, if at all.

This is his primary picking motion and means that his down strokes go away from the guitar body and clear from the strings.

With his wrist in that position it means he has to do something different to avoid the issue of the upstroke going towards the body and leaving the plectrum trapped in the strings when changing stings on an upstroke. In that scenario he uses his secondary motion, which I think he does by slightly rotating his forearm anti-clockwise during the upstroke with a string change. (Same movement as under exaggerating the key turn in the ignition of a car)

There’s other ways to make the same
motion, but that’s what Gary tended to
do from the videos I’ve watched of his playing.

If you do a bit more research in to the biomechanics of the wrist (I did this through a month’s paid content over Xmas on Troy Grady’s site) you can really easily spot how all your favourite players navigate the tricky guitar problem of changing stings on uneven note groupings at speed. There’s 6 or 7 more common styles and it’s easy to categorise most players in one of them.

It’s really nerdy, but if you are struggling it is worth looking in to. I’ve been able to learn some things in 3 weeks that I couldn’t crack in 30 years of trying.

stratman3142 · January 2023

@musteatbrain so, if I understand you correctly, does that mean that his primary picking motion is upward pick slanting (UWPS), down stroke escape (DSX). It looks that way from the video.

But if the fast picking section in the video starts with a down stroke, the logical way to play it would be with DWPS (i.e. USX). Unless it starts with an upstroke.

roberty · January 2023

You know if you type 'metronome' into Google it becomes a metronome? Semi on topic for a thread about picking practice

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I've been trying to learn some fast picking very methodically...here's how it's going

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