The cricket thread

Heartfeltdawn · June 2015

Certainly the middle order inquisition is on the cards. Root was due a poor Test and his dismissal today was one of those that tells you that your side aren't going to hold out.

Bell looks awful. Ballance looked awful but he's had a good introduction to Test cricket. I wouldn't drop both of them. Bell out, possibly bring Bairstow in and move Buttler up the order. He's a batsman with so much potential and has been wasted down at 7. Quite seriously, I'd take the gloves off him, give them to someone else, and play him as a straight batsman. Having the gloves taken away hasn't hampered BMac or Sangakarra

The way Moeen has bowled and batted this game, I suspect Rashid will be straight in for the First Ashes Test. Nothing to lose, everything possibly to gain.

Cook

Lyth

Ballance

Buttler

Root

Stokes

Bairstow (grrrrrrrrr)

Rashid

Broad

Wood

Anderson

Interesting how the Southern counties are barely represented...

iseverynamegone · June 2015

Move Butler up but leave the gloves on him. Rashid in for Ali. Bell has earned another chance , form is temporary and he has class still. Johnny B doesn't improve the side above Bell.

Or how about boycott and Tavare to open?

rocktron · June 2015

I wouldn't drop Bell. Okay, he had a poor match, but he has shown time and time again that he is capable of playing a big innings.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2015

Which Tavare? His nephew at Gloucs is quite useful at the top of the order.

Buttler has got something, fast hands, that not many English players have. Everyone's seen how well McCullum has done since dropping the gloves. In Buttler, we have a destructive player who could take that Pietersen role. If we keep him down the order, we don't get the full benefit of his ability. Again, I'll bring up Sangakarra. He's played 48 Tests as wicketkeeper and averaged 40. His last Test as designated 'keeper was 2008. With the gloves going elsewhere, he's played 82 Tests and averages a staggering 69. Now I'm not saying Buttler will show that level of improvement but he's up there with Joe Root in terms of being our best attacking batsman and he's wasted down there at 7.

With the form Bell is in since the first Test in the West Indies, anyone from Bairstow to Davies to Sam Billings would be an improvement.

iseverynamegone · June 2015

In both cases those averages increased later in their careers once they were already proven. I think leaving the gloves on Butler for now takes a bit of pressure of him with the bat. Who knows though , it could be adding more responsibility as a top order batsmen alone makes him shine.

rocktron · June 2015

Adam Gilchrist was an explosive batsman and wicket-keeper for Australia, and Alec Stewart fulfilled that role nicely for England. Alec had the more difficult role because he was also opening the innings immediately after removing his wicket-keeping pads and gloves.

Let's see how Butler performs against the Aussies before promoting him up the order. At the moment, he has a dual role which adds value to keeping him in the side. If he can withstand the sledging, and everything else Johnson can hurl at him, then maybe he can move up the batting order. Give him a couple of tests against the Aussies first so it can be assessed where his natural position is.

Don't forget that England has lost 4 quick wickets in recent tests. While an attacking batsman makes for attractive cricket, someone who can hold the upper/middle order together is of vital importance to this side.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2015

iseverynamegone said:

In both cases those averages increased later in their careers once they were already proven. I think leaving the gloves on Butler for now takes a bit of pressure of him with the bat. Who knows though , it could be adding more responsibility as a top order batsmen alone makes him shine.

In Kumar's case that could be argued but McCullum gave up the gloves because his knees were really suffering. It's been five years since he was the full-time gloveman, with one Test in 2013 where he did the job. As a keeper he was averaging 34. As a non-keeper, he's averaging 44. Without the gloves, he had to improve as a batsman in order to keep his place, a decision which has certainly paid off seeing how he's taken to captaincy and with the rise of BJ Watling and Luke Ronchi.

AB DeVilliers has a stellar record as a keeper-batsman but he became a keeper later on after Boucher's unfortunate retirement.

In Buttler's case, he's really got something with the bat. I really feel England would gain more from him as an out and out batsman. After all, a certain South African was batting at 9 and bowling first change offies against England at one point. Focusing on batting was right for him then, perhaps the same is true of Buttler.

iseverynamegone · June 2015

^ love that report , mainly because I had forgotten Butcher used to bowl some filth :-)

Heartfeltdawn · June 2015

iseverynamegone said:

^ love that report , mainly because I had forgotten Butcher used to bowl some filth :-)

That day he got 4 for 42 against Australia... hilarious

There was a better day though, the day Zimbabwe fell to the might of Giles, Butcher, and Anthony McGrath. Terrifying!

iseverynamegone · June 2015

Swann has been such a massive loss for England. Rashid will be better than Ali but no where near Swann level.

Dreading the Ashes to be fair, we were lucky the last time they were over here and it was a false margin. I just hope Warner has an awful series at least , even when they stuff us.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2015

iseverynamegone said:

Swann has been such a massive loss for England. Rashid will be better than Ali but no where near Swann level.

Dreading the Ashes to be fair, we were lucky the last time they were over here and it was a false margin. I just hope Warner has an awful series at least , even when they stuff us.

Rashid is an odd one. Had he been effectively ditched whilst on tour by just the one national coach, I'd say he's unlucky. But it's been more than one. England wanted him to bowl quicker which apparently threw his action around a bit. That said, if he plays in the Ashes (and the non-selection of Tredwell for the ODI squad suggests to me that Tredders has been ditched from all forms of the game), he will be a couple of years or so younger than when Swann made his Test debut.

crunchman · June 2015

I think they need to get Ali back for Worcs and make sure he gets a decent amount of bowling, and then see how he is performing. If they can get him back to where he was last summer he might be the best option we have got. The problem is that Worcs have got Ajmal so he's unlikely to bowl much for them.

Rashid might be worth a look as an attacking option. With Root in the side, he can probably be relied upon to bowl a tidy length and keep things tight, so you don't necessarily have to rely on Rashid to tie up an end. Rashid is at least a decent fielder and knows which end of a bat is which.

At this point, while a Swann would be ideal, I'd settle for an Ashley Giles.

In the pace bowling department, they need to keep an eye on Finn as well. If he can get his stuff together he's a much better prospect than most of the bowlers currently in the team.

If Ballance keeps batting like he has been then you have a real question mark about what to do there. No-one stands out. I'd probably go for Taylor. His first class average is close to 50 and he's done OK in the one day team. The more left field option might be Hildreth. He's been playing well this season - made a century against the Kiwis when they played Zummerzet, and he's a good fielder.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2015

Root isn't that type of bowler. He's a guy you chuck it to for a few overs to buy you a wicket, not to bowl a 10 to 15 over spell. Moeen's been handled really badly. He was sent to the West Indies having done naff all bowling since his injury and got found out. The confidence dropped and you can see it in the reduced revs he's getting on the ball compared to the end of last summer.

With Finn, his game relies upon rhythm. Action changes mean you have to learn a new rhythm. If anyone saw Big Mitch opening up for Australia today in the West Indies, it was a prime example of a bowler who has to have that perfect rhythm otherwise everything becomes disjointed. He wasn't happy with the footholds and so didn't explode through the crease as he does when he's on song.

What Australia have done today which is excellent is pick the right person for the Test if a slot becomes available. They've tried the like of Doolan and Joe Burns in the last year or so and they didn't work out. Adam Voges has now got his chance. Australia don't seem afraid of picking an older player whereas we are. Hussey didn't enter the Test arena until quite late, Ryan Harris is a late bloomer, and Brad Haddin has been essential to the Australians when it looked like he may well have been on the scrapheap.

Not that I'm trying to endorse an England recall for Robert Key, mind you

Taylor should be in line should a slot become available. Done pretty well in ODI cricket and deserves a chance at some point.

rocktron · June 2015

I see that the Aussies are struggling against the leg-spin of Bishoo in the West Indies!!!

crunchman · June 2015

Wasn't sure whether to post this in the cricket thread or the FIFA thread. Either way it's funny.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/884925.html

jpttaylor · June 2015

Quality batting from Root in the ODI. Best cover drives I've seen since Vaughan (special mention for Bell in that category as well).

Roy unlucky, Hales and Morgan will feel they probably should have spent longer at the crease.

iseverynamegone · June 2015

Bbc sport app isn't working , it says England are 350-6

Heartfeltdawn · June 2015

I'll reiterate what I said earlier: Buttler should not be batting for England in Test cricket at seven. It would be ridiculous for the man with the two fastest ODI centuries for England to be batting at 7 with the sodding tail in Test cricket. Take the gloves off him. Make him an out and out batsman. He's not a hitter like Jason Roy, he doesn't have a serious deficiency like Alex Hales does playing to leg. He's a proper batsman, one who can defend in Tests when it's tough and one who can attack.

Buttler is why we don't need Pietersen to return for the Ashes. He's got the shots. Now he needs the belief and the opportunity.

I wouldn't pencil in England for the victory yet. Decent wicket to bat on and that boundary is tiny.

scrumhalf · June 2015

Well, that was a great batting performance.

It will be interesting to see how many balls McCullum & Co lose. Helmets on!

iseverynamegone · June 2015

Nice cameo from Rashid too.

Boycott loves Butler. Move him but keep gloves. (Although I see Bairstow coming back to form)

jpttaylor · June 2015

More than a cameo from Rashid in the other innings! Not a bad way at all to celebrate being back in the side.

If England can do more to coax similar performances out of Buttler, then I agree about taking the gloves off of him. Some of the shots being played today were utterly sublime and it's rare that England produce such a dynamic batsman.

On his current form, I can't see Ballance staying in the test side through the whole of the Ashes series. Bairstow might not be the best wicketkeeper, but if it means better performances from Buttler by bumping him up the order, it's a price worth paying.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2015

iseverynamegone said:

Nice cameo from Rashid too.

Boycott loves Butler. Move him but keep gloves. (Although I see Bairstow coming back to form)

Yep. Bairstow's actually the better keeper of the two in my books. Bringing Bairstow in with the gloves and moving Buttler further up the order makes sense to me. People will mention Gilchrist at 7 for Australia: England don't have the like of two Waughs. Langer and Hayden, Ponting et al filling the 1-6 slots. Bairstow can bat, perhaps not a top 5, Buttler can bat and is a top five. Put it this way, if Sam Billings is considered good enough to play as a batsman at ODI level, then the same should be true for Buttler at Test level.

jpttaylor said:
If England can do more to coax similar performances out of Buttler, then I agree about taking the gloves off of him. Some of the shots being played today were utterly sublime and it's rare that England produce such a dynamic batsman.

On his current form, I can't see Ballance staying in the test side through the whole of the Ashes series. Bairstow might not be the best wicketkeeper, but if it means better performances from Buttler by bumping him up the order, it's a price worth paying.

I'm a Somerset supporter. When Buttler was at Taunton, he wasn't the best gloveman there and had to leave to go further (a sad irony given Kieswetter's desperately unfortunate retirement). He's decent to the seamers but against spin he is lacking. Bairstow is at least at the same level with the gloves. Now another reason why I'd like Buttler in as a batsman is that, after his performance today, Rashid will play in the Ashes. A lower middle-order with Bairstow and Rashid, two guys who know each other very well, offers an excellent platform.

Buttler got hyped up when he hit Wayne Parnell all over the place. At the time for Somerset, he didn't value his wicket highly enough at first class level. That's changed. Those fast hands I mentioned earlier were in full effect today but he's coupled that to a far tighter basic game.

Ballance deserves the faith to be kept with him. Yes he's in a bad spell. But I'd still go with this as my Test XI for the first Ashes match. Perhaps move Root to 4 as he seemed to take to going up the order today.

Cook

Lyth

Ballance

Buttler

Root

Stokes

Bairstow

Rashid

Broad

Wood

Anderson

iseverynamegone · June 2015

^im still leaving Bell in at 4 (for
Bairstow ) and moving Butler up to 6 . But fair play to you.

Still we will have a problem against serious pace if the Aussies turn up. And we once again need Jimmy to have a great series to be competitive.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2015

If Bell stays, I don't have a big problem with it. He was superb in the 2013 Ashes. Since then, he's not hit the heights, his highest series average being 42, and his average since Nov 21 2013 (the start of the last Ashes in Australia) being a shade under 30. Graham Thorpe was dropped for the 2005 Ashes, a difficult decision but one that paid off. Perhaps this is the time to do likewise and be bold.

All the bowlers need to be on it. Someone's got to put their hand up each Test and bring in that performance with the support around him chipping in. It was good to see Finn bowling with much better rhythm than he had in the World Cup. Getting the hard yards into him by playing domestic cricket has paid off. Finn, Jordan, and Plunkett will be the backup bowlers.

jpttaylor · June 2015

Agreed on Bell - it'll be on Bayliss and Farbrace to decide whether they're willing to let him keep his spot. I imagine they'll value his experience and decide that's more important, but I can see both sides of it. Ideally the gap between now and the start of the series will do him good (hopefully).

I'm starting to think I am being a bit unfair on Ballance - the bloke still has a test average of over 50 as it stands. He's got the talent but after the NZ tests I'm worried that if Boult found him out, then Australia will do what they can to exploit the fact he's staying deep in his crease too often. It could be a blip and it could even serve him well against big Mitch, but there are questions.

Emp_Fab · June 2015

My only contribution to this thread is that I drove past Headlingly cricket er.. pitch thing today. I believe it is some sort of famous place for those who enjoy a game of hitting leather balls with wooden clubs.

Carry on....

Heartfeltdawn · June 2015

jpttaylor said:

Agreed on Bell - it'll be on Bayliss and Farbrace to decide whether they're willing to let him keep his spot. I imagine they'll value his experience and decide that's more important, but I can see both sides of it. Ideally the gap between now and the start of the series will do him good (hopefully).

I'm starting to think I am being a bit unfair on Ballance - the bloke still has a test average of over 50 as it stands. He's got the talent but after the NZ tests I'm worried that if Boult found him out, then Australia will do what they can to exploit the fact he's staying deep in his crease too often. It could be a blip and it could even serve him well against big Mitch, but there are questions.I think he's one of those people who, when he does lose form, his feet become absolute rocks. Some folk just go down the wrong line and their lack of form is down to feet moving too much leaving your head in a crap position (Nick Knight, take a bow. Head goes on way, feet the other, and he'd end up LBW or nicking off). The non-feet movers had Marcus Trescothick as their president when he was out of nick. He'd become very vulnerable to the pitched up ball Graeme Hick was the same when he was in bad nick, folk like the Pakistan swing bowlers and India's Venkatesh Prasad would trouble him hugely.

I think he's one of those people who, when he does lose form, his feet become absolute rocks. Some folk just go down the wrong line and their lack of form is down to feet moving too much leaving your head in a crap position (Nick Knight, take a bow. Head goes on way, feet the other, and he'd end up LBW or nicking off). The non-feet movers had Marcus Trescothick as their president when he was out of nick. Foot movement would drop to nothing and he'd become very vulnerable to the pitched up ball. Graeme Hick was the same when he was in bad nick, folk like the Pakistan swing bowlers really troubled him.

Ballance can cope with the swinging ball. You don't score the runs he's scored at first-class level with Headingley as your home venue if you can't cope with the swinging ball. It's a technical flaw that hopefully he can iron out.

crunchman · June 2015

Later in the summer with drier pitches the ball probably won't swing as much. Also, while the Aussie bowlers are quicker I'm not sure that they will get as much swing as Boult and Southee.

If I was in charge I'd prepare the flattest possible pitches for their Dad's army bowlers to break down on in the first two tests. If England can bat long then I don't see Ryan Harris and Johnson lasting the whole series without breaking down. I think I've said it before but Starc is the key for me.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2015

There's no key bowler in that Australian line up: they're all capable. Harris and the two Mitchs are the standouts but Josh Hazlewood is going to be a hell of a bowler. He's got height, pace, and control. If Harris is fit, then I'd put Hazlewood ahead of Starc but it is very very close to call. If there are any green seaming tracks, then Lyon will get dropped and you'll have a real four man pace attack that will scare the living shit out of England.

crunchman · June 2015

Mitch (Johnson) and Ryan Harris are both getting on a bit. I think they will be 3 to 4 mph down on last time, and I think they are at the age where coming back to bowl a fourth spell when they already have 18 overs in their legs will be a struggle - or at least a struggle to do at full pace. If the England top order play well and don't get blown away early, then I think the lower order won't get blown away by the pair of them like last time.

I'm not sure how good the fielding will be to back them up either. They have a lot of geriatric players, and a geriatric keeper. Some of the older players will perform but there has to be a drop off in performance from at least 2 or 3 of their older players. Their batting is a bit fragile anyway. If Rogers, Clarke, and Watson have any drop off in their performance, then they are very dependent on Warner and Smith. I don't see an almost 38year old Haddin bailing them out like he did before. He'll be cream crackered from keeping wicket.

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