The cricket thread

Heartfeltdawn · August 2015

I'm in a video mood. Best all round cricketer is easy. That backfoot shot at 1.30 is astounding.

Best innings in my lifetime? This. Took on McGrath and Gillespie, two rather decent leg spinners, and came out on top. The cover drive at 29.50 might well be my favourite shot ever played. Now having to choose between Lara and King Viv Richards... that's a tough one

rsvmark · August 2015

Thanks for the insight fellas

octatonic · August 2015

I'm considering renouncing citizenship.

rsvmark · August 2015

So Sky have the rest of the day to fill with assorted programming after 40 mins of play this morning!

scrumhalf · August 2015

ASHES! ASHES! ASHES!

Man, that feels good. Now if only Spurs can not get tonked at Man U.

Heartfeltdawn · August 2015

After the World Cup, a huge amount of shit was written in the press. Anderson and Broad were close to finished. Cook had all the captaincy elan of cement. England were awful. Post-Pietersen, even positive changes were railed against. Strauss coming into the ECB fold was viewed as another public schoolboy anti-KP appointment (I failed to read anyone mention that Pietersen himself went to a fee-paying school in South Africa). If you wanted the truly down viewpoint, we had a shite captain, a few youngsters, no decent spinner, dudes like Bell who couldn't hack the pressure, no coach once Moores had been sacked, and a dodgy administration.

First up, New Zealand. Brendon McCullum was being hailed as a revolutionary cricketing god. The attacking way was the way forward. NZ were described in apocalyptic terms by at least one lousy journalist. They failed to win the Test series, lost the ODI series, and we won the T20 one-off.

How could this apparent godlike side of aggressive players lose to a feeble England team?

Next, Australia. A pace attack to squash all comers. In Warner, the man joining T20 and Tests and showing the apparent way forward. A captain of limitless tactics. The top ranked batsman in the world. Big Mitch was ready to dish out more pain, Other Big Mitch scared the shit out of people in the World Cup, and they could even boast the best off spinner in Australian Test history.

Fail. 3-1 England and the Oval is a dead match. Bang. The media circus that disemboweled Cook in print and Strauss within hours of his appointment have been shown to be as contemptible as the football media world.

England aren't that much better than Australia. Since the rise of the IPL, it has been close to impossible for any one team to dominate in the manner of the 1980s West Indians or the Waugh-Ponting led Australian teams. It is unlikely any side will dominate again because the national side isn't the all-dominant focus of a lot of players (one reason why NZ will never truly dominate, not whilst important members of their side miss early tour matches because they're fucking about in Mumbai playing slap and tickle cricket). You could argue that the comparative lack of English players in the IPL helped us in Test cricket in the past. It's pertinent to note that Australia failed in this series to carry out the basics of Test cricket, of when to attack and when to defend. Of this Test just finished, 7 members of the Australian side have played in the IPL; the England equivalent reads 0.

Was it 2005? No. It's been a series with two sides containing some good talented players, a few limited ones, and some coming to the end of their career. Entertaining it has been but not anything like ten years ago.

Heartfeltdawn · August 2015

So who will follow Clarke and CJR in the retirement stakes?

Watson and Haddin you think will go. Mitchell J isn't getting any younger.

England go to Abu Dhabi to face Pakistan in October for all three formats of the game. One would think that two spinners will be needed out there at some point so it would make sense to have Rashid in for Moeen if it's a one spinner pitch at the Oval. My preference would be to play both of them. I would also be tempted to rest both Root and Buttler. Both have played a lot of cricket. Buttler was tipped for a break a few months ago post-World Cup and either a break from cricket or to go and play a few Lancashire games would do him good. Bairstow taking the gloves is no problem and it means his place for Pakistan is sorted and our second keeper situation is sorted. Root's back does seem to be getting more and more niggly and the calender for the next 18 months is mental. Any chance we get to allow him more recovery time should be used as he is an exceptional player.

A young England man to replace Root - I'm not a huge fan of Alex Hales as I think he is limited in his ability on the legside but he is favoured in the ODI game and is probably the man who would come in if Lyth fails again and is dispensed with for the Pakistan tour. I'd drop Lyth to 3, Hales and Cook to open. We have a chance to experiment and we should use it. Hopefully the Oval will be a five day wicket as that's what we will be getting in Abu Dhabi and potentially a six man attack would be exciting.

England Side for the Oval:

Cook

Hales

Lyth

Bell

Bairstow

Stokes

Moeen

Rashid

Wood

Broad

Finn

(no Anderson - even if he is fit, I would give him the time off. No sense rushing back from a side injury for a dead rubber).

scrumhalf · August 2015

I don't disagree with your team, but I would offer the following:

- Lyth. Not sure he has it. We're touring SA, and I think they will see him as a walking wicket.
- Broad. I'd be tempted to give him a rest and bring in Plunkett or Foottitt.

Heartfeltdawn · August 2015

Lyth is an odd one. He's very boom and bust when it comes to first-class run scoring. He should play at the Oval. Prior to the South Africa tour we have the Pakistan tour across Sharjah, Dubai and Abu Dhabi so there is time for another opener to be tried out prior to South Africa.

Resting Broad: depends on whether England intend playing him in the ODI series and T20 match. He didn't play against NZ in the ODI series earlier in the summer. So far he's bowled 123 overs over 8 innings. At 15 overs per innings, he's not been overbowled. A seam attack of Finn, Wood, and Plunkett/Footitt would be very inexperienced and I'd want one lead seamer to play. With Anderson being wrapped in cotton wool to recover, that leaves Broad as the man of experience. Selection will obviously depend on any injuries and the only one who might be a concern is Stokes who was stretching the hamstring at Lords and at Trent Bridge.

The last time we played Pakistan in the UAE, we played Swann and Panesar together in two of the three Tests. It makes the selection of Rashid for the Oval a no-brainer for me. He and Moeen can both bat and they offer differing styles of spin bowling. With Stokes getting the bowling back, it means we could potentially play in Pakistan with a line up like this:

Cook

Lyth or Hales or another opener

Bell

Root

Stokes

Bairstow or Buttler at 6

Moeen

Broad (the Moeen-Broad partnership down the order is one I like).

Rashid

Wood

Anderson

That's a pretty decent batting lineup as Wood has shown he's no mug.

crunchman · August 2015

In my cricket watching lifetime Marshall has been the best quick bowler, and Warne the best spinner.

Going back in time, S.F. Barnes definitely has to be added to the conversation, and Bill O'Reilly as a spinner. I think Bradman was on the record as saying O'Reilly was the greatest bowler he saw. 156 wickets in 27 tests at 22.59 in an era of pretty flat pitches and an LBW law that was a lot more favourable to batsmen than it is now is pretty impressive.

It's difficult to compare quick bowlers and spinners but ultimately if I have to pick one bowler it's Warne. A spinner can keep going pretty much all day. No matter how good a quick bowler is, you know that he's not normally going to bowl more than 6 or 7 overs in one spell.

Edit: Other genuinely great bowlers (probably in most people's top 20 all time) in roughly chronological order that have not yet been mentioned would include Larwood, Grimmett, Lindwall, Trueman, Lillee, Hadlee, Holding, Garner, Ambrose, Wagar Younis and Wasim Akram. For me Hadlee makes the list purely as a bowler and you could argue that the other 3 great 80's all-rounders might as well.

I do wonder what Ian Bishop could have been if he had stayed injury free.

Heartfeltdawn · August 2015

^^

Bill O'Reilly and Grimmett suffer because there's so little footage available of them in action. I wish there were more of O'Reilly. This is one of the few clips online where you can see both Australian spinners together.

People like Maurice Tate, Hirst and Rhodes, Hedley Verity, Spofforth all suffer so similar reasons.

Ian Bishop before the injury was magnificent.

ennspek · August 2015

scrumhalf said:

ASHES! ASHES! ASHES!

Man, that feels good. Now if only Spurs can not get tonked at Man U.

We were a bit unlucky I thought. Neither side was great. I would have started Trippier mind. Back on thread what a series! I bloody love test match cricket.

Heartfeltdawn · August 2015

On this current tour Shane Watson averages 163 and 36.25. Shame it's with the ball and the bat respectively.

scrumhalf · August 2015

Hmm, we appear to be playing suicide cricket.

Gassage · August 2015

Random story:

A mate of mine, Tom Harvey, ex Kent, played against Tino Best y'day. Tino is one of the biggest wankers in the game and loves trying to kill clubbies.

My mate (Tom) said to me today what a twat he was. Which reminded me of this little anecdote:

Tino, in the Shrops league, made the huge mistake of beaming a lad called Lol Woodhall. Lol's a tough nut. Tino smashed his hand up, and as Lol was on the floor, Tino spat on him.

As he did so, Lol's brother, who was watching, strode on to the pitch in a rather menacing fashion.

Tino said "Do you want some too then mate?"

Sadly for Tino, Lol's bro DID want some, and he wanted quite a lot. FYI, Lol's brother is called Richie Woodhall. World Supermiddleweight Champion, 26 successful title defences. It didn't last long (one mighty blow in fact) and Tino was stretchered off. A stellar moment in League cricket.

scrumhalf · August 2015

Good old Shane Watson, a man with legs and feet that refuse to work properly.

He tried to kick himself after being out today. He missed.

hungrymark · August 2015

Gassage;762565" said:
Random story:
A mate of mine, Tom Harvey, ex Kent, played against Tino Best y'day. Tino is one of the biggest wankers in the game and loves trying to kill clubbies.
My mate (Tom) said to me today what a twat he was. Which reminded me of this little anecdote:
Tina in the Shrops league, made the huge mistake of beaming a lad called Lol Woodhall. Lol's a tough nut. Tino smashed his hand up, and as Lolwas on the floor, Tino spat on him.
As he did so, Lol's brother, who was watching, strode on to the pitch in a rather menacing fashion.
Tiny said "Do you want some too then mate?"
Sadly for Tino, Lol's bro Did want some, and he wanted quite a lot. FYI, Lol's brother is called
Richie Woodhall. World Supermiddleweight Champion, 26 successful title defences. It didn't last long (one mighty blow in fact) and Tino was stretchered off. A stellar moment in League cricket.

Mind the windows, Tino. Couldn't take him seriously after that. If you haven't seen the video look it up on YouTube.

cj73 · August 2015

scrumhalf said:

Good old Shane Watson, a man with legs and feet that refuse to work properly.

He tried to kick himself after being out today. He missed.

Would he not have hit his own leg first?

lloyd · November 2015

Great innings by Buttler and a good win, not a big ODI fan but been off work with food poisoning and is much more interesting than what else is on.

scrumhalf · December 2015

Nice way to start a series in South Africa, good performances pretty much all round.

Of course, given our yo-yo performances in test cricket this year we'll probably cop a shellacking in the second test.

iseverynamegone · December 2015

Was pleased to see Bairstow gets runs. Jos can sit out for a while and come back as a batsmen as HFD suggested.

Wonder if Hales will work out opening or if we will have Compton back there. Either way they look to be moving forward.

(Edited "his" to "Jos "so @heartfeltdawn comments makes sense. Nice covering up of my shit typo that man:-)

hungrymark · December 2015

scrumhalf;916004" said:
Nice way to start a series in South Africa, good performances pretty much all round.

Of course, given our yo-yo performances in test cricket this year we'll probably cop a shellacking in the second test.

Just what I was thinking this morning. It's all or nothing with England these days. Capable of thrashing the number 1 ranked team in the world, but equally likely to lose by an innings to the Windies.

Heartfeltdawn · December 2015

@iseverynamegone Even some of the scribes on Cricinfo are coming round to this notion. When Buttler was at Somerset, he never learnt how to bat in the first-class game as he was fairly low down the order. It is completely mental that he has scored the three fastest England ODI centuries yet in FC cricket he has four centuries. Chris Woakes by comparison has eight and averages more that Buttler (36 to 32). For a man with so much talent, that is embarrassing. Back in the day, Clive Rice told KP that he was going to be moved up the order for Notts and he challenged his to score big runs. He dropped the bowling and took up the challenge. In my view, Buttler needs to do that for Lancashire next season. They have a good keeper there already who can bat. Buttler should be stripped of the gloves and told to go out and to show that he's a serious batsman, not someone fucking about with a first class average lower than Woakes and with fewer FC centuries than Tim Bresnan.

Hales will get the whole series. If he does reasonably (even an average of 30 would do), they will give him the whole summer next year as they have a fair bit invested in him. Woakes sadly I think has had his chances at Test level. I like him as a bowler but he's not delivered at Test level. Anderson straight back in, no brainer.

It was lovely to see Moeen stick the fingers up at the naysayers. He did go for a few runs in his first six overs of the game and Twitter was full of people panicking because he was going at 6 runs an over. He answered them beautifully. The simplified action works and he pushed the ball through, which is what you have to do on a pitch like that.

Compton played an absolute blinder. Man of the Match in my opinion. We could have been in serious shit on the first day but he nullified it against a very decent bowling attack on a very helpful wicket. It wasn't pretty but it was necessary.

SA look awful. They look like us Down Under when we got stuffed. Clear problems in the admin department with the quotas (don't mention the quotas), too many players feeling tired, and Amla looks spent as a captain. It's a great shame. One of the unexpected delights of the last SA tour was going to Taunton and bumping into his father in the smoking area. He'd literally flown in that morning from SA, got a train up to Taunton, and all to see his son play. He sat with my group for a couple of hours and told us all about life growing up and how they'd come through. Fascinating man and the pride was evident in seeing his son make such a name for himself. He actually left us when Boucher got hit in the face (the injury that caused his retirement) as he is a doctor and volunteered his services if needed.

The worry for SA is how weak their domestic game is. In Australia 15 years ago, you knew there were players who could play Tests. Many came to England as pros (Law, both Husseys, now we have the like of Hogan and Magoffin). South Africa were similar with the Kolpaks. The like of Rudolph and Prince were good enough to be in that side but jacked it in. Now with T20 coming in and the Test players playing few domestic games, the pool has shrunk. Old Somerset fans will remember Jimmy Cook. There are rumours of his son coming into the side. When you consider that his son is 33, it shows the same trend we've seen with Australia, in that players will be picked at an older age than 15 years ago (Chris Rogers, Voges) because of the paucity of younger talent.

iseverynamegone · December 2015

Anderson back on no brainier. Good to have Woakes around as a decent back up. Like to see some serious young pace get blooded for the inevitable Broad/Anderson retirement.

Only when they have gone will most really appreciate how amazeballs they have been .

Heartfeltdawn · December 2015

Bowling full stop is at such a low level compared to 15 years ago. A batsman doesn't become great by making runs on flat tracks: they achieve it by learning how to bat and succeed on poor tracks as well. Likewise a bowler doesn't become great by taking wickets on green seamers or some of the spin bowling shitholes India served up when SA went there: they become great by bowling well on flat tracks that offer them little. Personally I don't think bowlers are developing as they used to because they get removed at the first hint of people taking them on. The mentality in T20.ODI cricket is "one bad over - you're off'. That mentality is now firmly in place in a lot of league cricket and increasingly in FC cricket.

A young bowler after being smacked about can learn so much from developing a plan to come back against a destructive batsman. I remember how much I learnt playing a county festival and bowling 67 overs in three days (60 over games, unlimited spells) when I was 17. The ability to keep going, focusing on the right areas, changing methods of attack, all of that came through bowling those spells. People talk about there being a reduction in the number of batsmen able to play a long innings: the same is true for bowlers.

Quite seriously, I'd impose a restriction on the number of bowlers you can use in ODI, T20, and FC cricket in an innings. People might react with horror in the thought of injuries and going down to only four fit bowlers but I am sure that scrapping the dibbly dobblers and part-time shit would help bowlers to develop. As they develop, so the batsmen they play against has to develop or face the axe. Crap bowling breeds crap batting and vice versa.

Gassage · January 2016

Watched Rabada y'day. He looks the bomb, like a superstar in making.

Some of Marshall and Daniel in his action.

We need to get @pj310 commenting on this thread....he's one of the best young cricketers I know....

Gassage · January 2016

Ginger Records broken by Stokes and Bairstow:

Fastest 100 stand by 2 Gingers in test cricket
Best 100 by a Ginger at Cape Town
Highest stand v SA by Gingers.
Bairstow- most Ginger England batter of all time
Stokes- Chavviest Ginger in history of test cricket

Heartfeltdawn · January 2016

Gassage said:

Watched Rabada y'day. He looks the bomb, like a superstar in making.

He does indeed. The Saffer medical team must be watching him like a hawk after seeing the like of Mfuneko Ngam and Monde Zondeki start promisingly and then fall to injuries.

As a long term non-fan of Chris Morris ($625,000 for that?), I am highly pleased by his own personal century. If he were English, he's the type of seamer who would have been picked for a Test at Headingley in the early 90's and then dumped forever.

Gassage · January 2016

@heartfeltdawn

This is utter utter carnage!!

I burned my croissants cos of Stokes...astonishing stuff.

Gassage · January 2016

That is one of the great innings.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

The cricket thread

Comments