The Reckoning - Jimmy Saville drama on BBC

Reverend · October 2023

He had Maggie in his corner

theatreanchor · October 2023

m_c said:

theatreanchor said:

Devil#20 said:

Sassafras said:

I wouldn't want to watch it.
It'd feel like ghoulish fascination.

This is where I'm coming from too. It a drama and not a documentary and that implies artistic licence so I'm not comfortable with that possibly skewing fact from fiction either. It must have been very obvious for those that worked with him (including our current King).

I remember as a kid that if he appeared on the TV my Mum or Dad would immediately turn the TV over. When I asked why they essentially said the person he was basically a creep and obviously a pervert preying on young women. They also said that everybody knows that. I didn't even know what a pervert was at that age. Had to look it up in a dictionary.

If so many people knew, including the general public - then why was he allowed such unbelievable, unfettered access? It is staggering that he was allowed to get away with it - and given such an ostentatious funeral. Makes me sick to think of it.

The Netflix documentary covered this, and ultimately it was a lack of corroboration, as although there had been individual complaints to at least two police forces, those complaints were never shared.
And then there was the whole celeb thing, being associated with powerful people, and appearing to do a lot of good for people.

The big thing I took from the Netflix series, was he was an evil manipulator and a product of his era. An era where communication between police forces was limited, and an era where people didn't question people in control, or those who did good things for communities.

Sounds like I should watch that doc.

thermionic · October 2023

Reverend said:

He had Maggie in his corner

And the royal family, the pope, the NHS, the BBC… Remarkable how he managed all that.

nero1701 · October 2023

guitars4you said:

rsvmark said:

Reverend said:

there was a story of a policeman who stopped Saville's car and found an under-aged girl. He got a massive reprimand form this chief constable.

His enablers were at the highest level.

I watched the Netflix one on it. He regularly entertained off duty police officers at his flat as ‘friends’.

master that funny hand shake and you will be protected

That's nonsense.

Reverend · October 2023

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/28/jimmy-savile-escaped-justice-because-of-libel-laws-claims-reporter

DefaultM · October 2023

Reverend said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/28/jimmy-savile-escaped-justice-because-of-libel-laws-claims-reporter

If you knew someone was going around murdering people, even if they were your friend or your own kid you'd think "oh dear he's fucked in the head and needs to be put away before he does more harm".
Yet apparently people can know someone is a paedo and not only just let them get on with it, but cover it up as well. Despite it absolutely destroying the lives of the people it happens to and the people they know.

Offset · October 2023

Reverend said:

He had Maggie in his corner

Yeah, but there has been no suggestion she had any notion of what he was up to. He had Wingnut in his corner as well, come to that.

Offset · October 2023

nero1701 said:

guitars4you said:

rsvmark said:

Reverend said:

there was a story of a policeman who stopped Saville's car and found an under-aged girl. He got a massive reprimand form this chief constable.

His enablers were at the highest level.

I watched the Netflix one on it. He regularly entertained off duty police officers at his flat as ‘friends’.

master that funny hand shake and you will be protected

That's nonsense.

You sure?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/02/secret-handshake-police-freemasons

Reverend · October 2023

Offset said:

Reverend said:

He had Maggie in his corner

Yeah, but there has been no suggestion she had any notion of what he was up to. He had Wingnut in his corner as well, come to that.

however she definitely knew Pinochet's track record

Offset · October 2023

Reverend said:

Offset said:

Reverend said:

He had Maggie in his corner

Yeah, but there has been no suggestion she had any notion of what he was up to. He had Wingnut in his corner as well, come to that.

however she definitely knew Pinochet's track record

There's no denying that.

m_c · October 2023

nero1701 said:

guitars4you said:

rsvmark said:

Reverend said:

there was a story of a policeman who stopped Saville's car and found an under-aged girl. He got a massive reprimand form this chief constable.

His enablers were at the highest level.

I watched the Netflix one on it. He regularly entertained off duty police officers at his flat as ‘friends’.

master that funny hand shake and you will be protected

That's nonsense.

I don't think that funny hand shake is anywhere near as useful, but it certainly used to be.

However I'm not sure that was the case with Saville, I think it was far more a case of he made the right friends.
What exactly those friendships involved, I think only those who attended the parties at his flat will ever know.

nero1701 · October 2023

Offset said:

nero1701 said:

guitars4you said:

rsvmark said:

Reverend said:

there was a story of a policeman who stopped Saville's car and found an under-aged girl. He got a massive reprimand form this chief constable.

His enablers were at the highest level.

I watched the Netflix one on it. He regularly entertained off duty police officers at his flat as ‘friends’.

master that funny hand shake and you will be protected

That's nonsense.

You sure?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/02/secret-handshake-police-freemasons

I see no reference to Jimmy there?

rze99 · October 2023

When I was kid watching Jim'll Fix It, my Mum refused to be in the room with it on. She used to say "Oh, I can't bear that man there's something wrong with him" and we just laughed at her for being too straight.

Offset · October 2023

nero1701 said:

Offset said:

nero1701 said:

guitars4you said:

master that funny hand shake and you will be protected

That's nonsense.

You sure?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/02/secret-handshake-police-freemasons

I see no reference to Jimmy there?

There wasn't @nero1701. ;;; @guitars4you simply said that you'd be protected if you were a mason - it was a general point and there's been some acknowledgement that it's an issue.

That said, it wouldn't hugely surprise me. And then look at Cyril Smith - how the fat bastard managed to get away with it for all those years beggars belief. An absolute disgrace. Coverups, the OSA, the intelligence services... all involved. It's all about power, corruption, self-preservation and arse-covering. For every nonce that's exposed, sadly many more will remain undetected or unpunished.

Hurling_Fruitmig · October 2023

thermionic said:

Reverend said:

He had Maggie in his corner

And the royal family, the pope, the NHS, the BBC… Remarkable how he managed all that.

..and politicians from all the major parties. It's almost as if they were all blinded by the 'good work'.

Reverend · October 2023

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/uk-news/jimmy-savile-been-involved-one-26795870

no idea how credible this is

Philly_Q · October 2023

Offset said:
And then look at Cyril Smith - how the fat bastard managed to get away with for it all those years beggars belief. An absolute disgrace. Coverups, the OSA, the intelligence services... all involved. It's all about power, corruption, self-preservation and arse-covering. For every nonce that's exposed, sadly many more will remain undetected or unpunished.

Peter Jaconelli, the ice-cream man, former mayor of Scarborough and friend of Jimmy Savile who appears as a character in the TV drama, was also accused of child sex abuse after his death. As far as I'm aware there were no links with Cyril Smith and others, but certainly "people in high places" were getting away with awful crimes at that time.

nero1701 · October 2023

Offset said:

nero1701 said:

Offset said:

nero1701 said:

guitars4you said:

master that funny hand shake and you will be protected

That's nonsense.

You sure?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/02/secret-handshake-police-freemasons

I see no reference to Jimmy there?

There wasn't @nero1701. ; @guitars4you simply said that you'd be protected if you were a mason - it was a general point and there's been some acknowledgement that it's an issue.

That said, it wouldn't hugely surprise me. And then look at Cyril Smith - how the fat bastard managed to get away with for it all those years beggars belief. An absolute disgrace. Coverups, the OSA, the intelligence services... all involved. It's all about power, corruption, self-preservation and arse-covering. For every nonce that's exposed, sadly many more will remain undetected or unpunished.

Thanks for share.

I seem to get the wrong end of the story in Off topic, its happened a couple of times, and it's not intentional. That along side the disgusting comments and threads by a specific member, I think Off Topics is not the place for me.

Offset · October 2023

^^ I wouldn't worry mate - getting the wrong end of the story isn't a crime and nobody took any offence :-)

rze99 · October 2023

Hurling_Fruitmig said:

thermionic said:

Reverend said:

He had Maggie in his corner

And the royal family, the pope, the NHS, the BBC… Remarkable how he managed all that.

..and politicians from all the major parties. It's almost as if they were all blinded by the 'good work'.

Indeed some were. Saville raised circa £40m for hospital charities. Highly effective smokescreen.

Devil#20 · October 2023

rze99 said:

When I was kid watching Jim'll Fix It, my Mum refused to be in the room with it on. She used to say "Oh, I can't bear that man there's something wrong with him" and we just laughed at her for being too straight.

Mum's always know best.

stufisher · October 2023

It's starting take the shape of a Line Of Duty script ... didn't they allude to Cyril Smith and Percy politicos via some photos? Saville might also have identifiable IIRC. I think it was series 2.

munckee · October 2023

I’ve watched the whole thing now. It’s pretty depressing watching. Hopefully it’s much harder to get away with this stuff now.

exocet · October 2023

munckee said:

I’ve watched the whole thing now. It’s pretty depressing watching. Hopefully it’s much harder to get away with this stuff now.

I don't think it'll ever go away, the cult of personality (a significant contributing factor in my view) has moved continually from vaudeville to Hollywood, Radio, TV and now onto YouTube / other Web based channels.

swiller · October 2023

Its an odd show to have been made. Cant understand the motives of anyone to watch it tbh.

P0wderF1nger · October 2023

Growing up in the 70's, he was part of the cultural landscape for us kids. My mum was involved with the NSPCC, posting those envelopes for people to put spare change into and collecting them a week or so later. I remember going to some sort of NSPCC event during the summer holidays, where lots of activities were arranged and a makeshift stage where we were entertained - basically a magician, a bit of children's music, a puppet show etc, but children were called up to the stage and got to answer questions and everything was all very exciting to us junior school age kids. One of the kids was asked a question and he said something about wanting to go on Jim'll fix it. It was like the scene where they enter the pub in American Werewolf, followed by by one of the adults taking the stage and telling the entire room that was not a good idea and that we should all avoid writing in. As I grew up, the term "Savile" turned into a form of insult and although we did not necessarily know what it meant because we were all too young, it seemed that all of the kids "knew" and that the adults also definitely "knew" as well.

So it makes me wonder how a bunch of kids growing up in the midlands "knew", then how in the world was nothing done about it? It is still my opinion that the authorities and the BBC knew exactly what he got up to, but just turned a blind eye.

Philly_Q · October 2023

I've just finished watching the last two episodes. Whether you think it's right or wrong to make such a programme, it's very well done. Steve Coogan looks nothing like Savile despite the wigs and makeup, but gets the mannerisms right (without a lot of now then, now then, guys and gals, jewellery jewellery etc - they've consciously avoided that). He also sounds exactly like Savile... whilst still sounding exactly like Steve Coogan. It can't have been easy to play such an eccentric caricature of a man whilst still conveying the seriousness of the story. I think they got it right.

Regarding the drama versus documentary question, there is of course some dramatic license, but I don't think it's in any way glamourising Savile, or indeed anyone else. This was a man who lived quite a lot of his life on camera, and in the public eye, and I think they've deliberately attempted to show the "offstage" part of his life which documentaries can't show. None of us can know how accurate this is, but it is based on large amounts of testimony from victims, people who knew him, and the strange "hiding in plain sight" comments made by Savile himself in many interviews.

I don't think the victims are under-represented; the four real-life victims who speak at the beginning or end of the programmes all have their stories told in the drama, along with several others - which might be specific victims' stories or might be based on composites of many similar incidents.

I also don't think the BBC (in particular) "gets off lightly". The programme makes it clear that multiple people at the BBC, Stoke Mandeville, Leeds General Infirmary, Broadmoor, and even in Government had their suspicions of Savile but turned a blind eye, allowed themselves to be satisfied by flimsy evidence (or lack of damning evidence), or felt they simply wouldn't be listened to.

For anyone who said they don't want to watch it, I'm not saying "you should", but it's powerful stuff.

CoffeeAndTV · October 2023

I’m not planning on watching this, at 49 I remember watching him on television and at work we had the Lampard Report which was an NHS investigation into the failings. Luckily, Savile was nowhere near our Trust.

Fingers657 · October 2023

I don’t see why thee BBC waste more licence fee payers money making shite programs like this ?
I would have thought Channel 5 would have done this showing up the BBC for the shite house it really is.
ITV is gaining in its coverup of perverts.
If the Who’s Peter Townshend had been caught after Saville
Would he have gotten away with downloading child porn on his computer and paying for it with his credit card ?
saying it was research for a book ?
Got put on the sex offender’s list and had to report to his local police station.
People don’t seem to care and still buy Who records and tickets to there shows.
As Nessa said on Gavin & Stacey Where’s the book Pete?

Philly_Q · October 2023

Fingers657 said:

I don’t see why thee BBC waste more licence fee payers money making shite programs like this ?

Why don't you send them a list of exactly what you'd them to make with your licence fee money? I'm sure they'd be glad to oblige.

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The Reckoning - Jimmy Saville drama on BBC

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