The Reckoning - Jimmy Saville drama on BBC

stufisher · October 2023

After I saw Steve Coogan being interviewed on BBC this morn I finally decided to watch The Reckoning.

What a complete and utter clusterfuq society must have been in media circles ... I'm assuming that this has to have been corroborated by a variety of independent sources.

FWIW I think it's well put together and brings home to bear the impact of a sick fuqqup example of a human being ... monster is too gentle a descriptor.

Anyone else seen it / have a view?

theatreanchor · October 2023

Yeah…I dunno. It seems to make out a lot of people knew he was awful and could do nothing about it. Not even his Mother. It’s very strange - which is what I thought when I learned of its conception. I wasn’t clear on the victims in the first episode either - were they all true stories? Where was the boy who was pictured as a scout at the end? Will they be back later? It’s a bit of a mess.

EricTheWeary · October 2023

Just seen the trailer. There are victims involved in the making of it I gathered from the press release type stuff.
I'm in two minds about watching it.

Philly_Q · October 2023

I've watched the first two episodes but I feel like I should see the other two before forming an overall opinion.

boogieman · October 2023

Not sure I want to watch it. Sick bastard.

Offset · October 2023

I won't be watching it. He was a constant presence on the box when I was in my childhood and I really don't want to dwell on what the bastard was up to when I was watching his ugly gurning face stare out of the screen at me.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I bet most of us thought he was a wrong 'un back in the day, without beginning to even imagine the reality of what he was up to.

kaypeejay · October 2023

Offset said:

I won't be watching it. He was a constant presence on the box when I was in my childhood and I really don't want to dwell on what the bastard was up to when I was watching his ugly gurning face stare out of the screen at me.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I bet most of us thought he was a wrong 'un back in the day, without beginning to even imagine the reality of what he was up to.

Exactly this. Louis Theroux did one of his programmes on Saville and without saying the exact words, asked him if he was a perv/paedo. It was all in the public domain.

I remember when he died, thinking that everyone would be talking about his 'exploits' but it was about a week to a fortnight after before anything 'came out'.

Reverend · October 2023

kaypeejay said:

Offset said:

I won't be watching it. He was a constant presence on the box when I was in my childhood and I really don't want to dwell on what the bastard was up to when I was watching his ugly gurning face stare out of the screen at me.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I bet most of us thought he was a wrong 'un back in the day, without beginning to even imagine the reality of what he was up to.

Exactly this. Louis Theroux did one of his programmes on Saville and without saying the exact words, asked him if he was a perv/paedo. It was all in the public domain.

I remember when he died, thinking that everyone would be talking about his 'exploits' but it was about a week to a fortnight after before anything 'came out'.

and when it started to come out, there were people attacking those that first said anything

BillDL · October 2023

I've read a few of the responses from the BBC's representative to criticisms about hypocrisy, and I have to say that I am not impressed by them. People genuinely feel that the BBC has exercised real audacity by creating a drama about him. The official BBC responses do state that there are portions in the drama that "admit" to missing some significant indicators where they should have instigated an enquiry or investigation, but in doing so they have made a point of attempting to share the blame equally among other people and organisations to dilute the criticism. That's hardly an admission or a proper apology. A proper full-depth documentary would have served the actual facts much better than a drama that is able to play up or play down certain aspects and issues. I have no doubt that Steve Coogan plays a fantastic character role, and that it must have caused him a considerable dilemma by undertaking the task, but I won't be watching it because the more authentic the role is played the more it would make my skin crawl with disgust.

Musicman20 · October 2023

I have watched two episodes, more so because Coogan is jus a fantastic actor and comedian. He really did nail this...it is incredibly dark and creepy.

My view? We need to learn from this and personally I think ignoring it and never talking about it won't help, but I understand others may not wish to.

I honestly can't believe he got away with it for so many years.

elstoof · October 2023

To be fair to the BBC, this is actually an ITV production, they’re just broadcasting it. Coogan only took the role because it was made in collaboration some of with savile’s victims who wanted to finally have their stories told and it does a good job in that regard. It’s not an easy watch but very well done

skullfunkerry · October 2023

kaypeejay said:

Offset said:

I won't be watching it. He was a constant presence on the box when I was in my childhood and I really don't want to dwell on what the bastard was up to when I was watching his ugly gurning face stare out of the screen at me.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I bet most of us thought he was a wrong 'un back in the day, without beginning to even imagine the reality of what he was up to.

Exactly this. Louis Theroux did one of his programmes on Saville and without saying the exact words, asked him if he was a perv/paedo. It was all in the public domain.

I remember when he died, thinking that everyone would be talking about his 'exploits' but it was about a week to a fortnight after before anything 'came out'.

I remember reading a comment from Louis Theroux along the lines of the time he spent with Savile being the most uncomfortable he's ever felt, even more so than the right-wing white supremacists or any of the other "dangerous" groups he's documented. I don't know yet whether I'll watch it; I think I agree with BillDL, a documentary rather than a drama might have been a "better" option. Unfortunately, people will watch it, and think they're experts on the whole thing based on just this program, rather than any other facts that actually exist.

Sassafras · October 2023

I wouldn't want to watch it.
It'd feel like ghoulish fascination.

axisus · October 2023

Having seen a few clips, Steve Coogan does an amazing job. I'm a big fan of his stuff generally. I'll probably take a look but if it gets too uncomfortable I won't watch.

The story of Savile should also include the 'enablers', it seems to me that a lot of people must have turned a blind eye.

Reverend · October 2023

there was a story of a policeman who stopped Saville's car and found an under-aged girl. He got a massive reprimand form this chief constable.

His enablers were at the highest level.

rsvmark · October 2023

Reverend said:

there was a story of a policeman who stopped Saville's car and found an under-aged girl. He got a massive reprimand form this chief constable.

His enablers were at the highest level.

I watched the Netflix one on it. He regularly entertained off duty police officers at his flat as ‘friends’.

Devil#20 · October 2023

Sassafras said:

I wouldn't want to watch it.
It'd feel like ghoulish fascination.

This is where I'm coming from too. It a drama and not a documentary and that implies artistic licence so I'm not comfortable with that possibly skewing fact from fiction either. It must have been very obvious for those that worked with him (including our current King).

I remember as a kid that if he appeared on the TV my Mum or Dad would immediately turn the TV over. When I asked why they essentially said the person he was basically a creep and obviously a pervert preying on young women. They also said that everybody knows that. I didn't even know what a pervert was at that age. Had to look it up in a dictionary.

BillDL · October 2023

elstoof said:

To be fair to the BBC, this is actually an ITV production, they’re just broadcasting it. Coogan only took the role because it was made in collaboration some of with savile’s victims who wanted to finally have their stories told and it does a good job in that regard. It’s not an easy watch but very well done

Thanks for that. I mistakenly thought that it was a BBC production. That does slightly change the "hypocrisy" aspect of simply broadcasting it, but nevertheless I still think the comments made by the BBC's representative(s) were blame-shedding.

kaypeejay · October 2023

Devil#20 said:

Sassafras said:

I wouldn't want to watch it.
It'd feel like ghoulish fascination.

This is where I'm coming from too. It a drama and not a documentary and that implies artistic licence so I'm not comfortable with that possibly skewing fact from fiction either. It must have been very obvious for those that worked with him (including our current King).

I remember as a kid that if he appeared on the TV my Mum or Dad would immediately turn the TV over. When I asked why they essentially said the person he was basically a creep and obviously a pervert preying on young women. They also said that everybody knows that. I didn't even know what a pervert was at that age. Had to look it up in a dictionary.

Better than Googling it!

theatreanchor · October 2023

Devil#20 said:

Sassafras said:

I wouldn't want to watch it.
It'd feel like ghoulish fascination.

This is where I'm coming from too. It a drama and not a documentary and that implies artistic licence so I'm not comfortable with that possibly skewing fact from fiction either. It must have been very obvious for those that worked with him (including our current King).

I remember as a kid that if he appeared on the TV my Mum or Dad would immediately turn the TV over. When I asked why they essentially said the person he was basically a creep and obviously a pervert preying on young women. They also said that everybody knows that. I didn't even know what a pervert was at that age. Had to look it up in a dictionary.

If so many people knew, including the general public - then why was he allowed such unbelievable, unfettered access? It is staggering that he was allowed to get away with it - and given such an ostentatious funeral. Makes me sick to think of it.

Open_G · October 2023

I was channel hopping last night and caught 5 mins. Enough to make me decide I’ll watch it at my leisure on iPlayer. I’m 46 which means I’m bang in the middle of the Jim’ll fix it years. One of the girls I went to school with was on it interviewing John major. There was always a bit of the dirty old man pisstake of him but without really understanding what it meant. Having seen some of the footage and reels in various documentary shows it’s pretty obvious to see public assaults under the banner of “a bit of fun.”

elstoof · October 2023

axisus said:

Having seen a few clips, Steve Coogan does an amazing job. I'm a big fan of his stuff generally. I'll probably take a look but if it gets too uncomfortable I won't watch.

The story of Savile should also include the 'enablers', it seems to me that a lot of people must have turned a blind eye.

The scene where he’s interviewed for the TotP job doesn’t show the BBC in particularly good light, they don’t shy away from showing those who turned a blind eye despite being warned

theatreanchor · October 2023

elstoof said:

axisus said:

Having seen a few clips, Steve Coogan does an amazing job. I'm a big fan of his stuff generally. I'll probably take a look but if it gets too uncomfortable I won't watch.

The story of Savile should also include the 'enablers', it seems to me that a lot of people must have turned a blind eye.

The scene where he’s interviewed for the TotP job doesn’t show the BBC in particularly good light, they don’t shy away from showing those who turned a blind eye despite being warned

Exactly - same at the hospital.

Sassafras · October 2023

Open_G said:

I was channel hopping last night and caught 5 mins. Enough to make me decide I’ll watch it at my leisure on iPlayer. I’m 46 which means I’m bang in the middle of the Jim’ll fix it years. One of the girls I went to school with was on it interviewing John major. There was always a bit of the dirty old man pisstake of him but without really understanding what it meant. Having seen some of the footage and reels in various documentary shows it’s pretty obvious to see public assaults under the banner of “a bit of fun.”

I didn't think John Major was that bad.

littlegreenman · October 2023

Sassafras said:

Open_G said:

I was channel hopping last night and caught 5 mins. Enough to make me decide I’ll watch it at my leisure on iPlayer. I’m 46 which means I’m bang in the middle of the Jim’ll fix it years. One of the girls I went to school with was on it interviewing John major. There was always a bit of the dirty old man pisstake of him but without really understanding what it meant. Having seen some of the footage and reels in various documentary shows it’s pretty obvious to see public assaults under the banner of “a bit of fun.”

I didn't think John Major was that bad.

You'd need to ask Edwina!

BillDL · October 2023

I don't get that yolk.

JAYJO · October 2023

i had an argument with my late mother. He was on a news report just finishing some charity walk event thing and my mum said on the lines...."urghhh cant stand him,hes creepy, don't like him ,never liked him". I jumped to his defence... "Hes doing all this for kids and charity how can you say that" etc etc..That was many years ago. She died before all was revealed.

Offset · October 2023

JAYJO said:

i had an argument with my late mother. He was on a news report just finishing some charity walk event thing and my mum said on the lines...."urghhh cant stand him,hes creepy, don't like him ,never liked him". I jumped to his defence... "Hes doing all this for kids and charity how can you say that" etc etc..That was many years ago. She died before all was revealed.

Yep, I think many people felt the same way as your Mum. I read somewhere that there was a theory that Savile did all of his fund-raising to 'balance the scales' and offset his monstrous offending. 'Warped' doesn't do that thinking justice.

m_c · October 2023

theatreanchor said:

Devil#20 said:

Sassafras said:

I wouldn't want to watch it.
It'd feel like ghoulish fascination.

This is where I'm coming from too. It a drama and not a documentary and that implies artistic licence so I'm not comfortable with that possibly skewing fact from fiction either. It must have been very obvious for those that worked with him (including our current King).

I remember as a kid that if he appeared on the TV my Mum or Dad would immediately turn the TV over. When I asked why they essentially said the person he was basically a creep and obviously a pervert preying on young women. They also said that everybody knows that. I didn't even know what a pervert was at that age. Had to look it up in a dictionary.

If so many people knew, including the general public - then why was he allowed such unbelievable, unfettered access? It is staggering that he was allowed to get away with it - and given such an ostentatious funeral. Makes me sick to think of it.

The Netflix documentary covered this, and ultimately it was a lack of corroboration, as although there had been individual complaints to at least two police forces, those complaints were never shared.
And then there was the whole celeb thing, being associated with powerful people, and appearing to do a lot of good for people.

The big thing I took from the Netflix series, was he was an evil manipulator and a product of his era. An era where communication between police forces was limited, and an era where people didn't question people in control, or those who did good things for communities.

BillDL · October 2023

I agree with that @Offset.; I'm sure there are a lot of people out there doing much the same thing, but on a much smaller scale.

guitars4you · October 2023

rsvmark said:

Reverend said:

there was a story of a policeman who stopped Saville's car and found an under-aged girl. He got a massive reprimand form this chief constable.

His enablers were at the highest level.

I watched the Netflix one on it. He regularly entertained off duty police officers at his flat as ‘friends’.

master that funny hand shake and you will be protected

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The Reckoning - Jimmy Saville drama on BBC

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