Harley Benton Guitars….

Offset · October 2023

chor808 said:

chor808 said:

Still no where to be seen. DHL doing a sweep of the warehouse this morning to find it else it's lost. Will contact Thomman this morning again..:-(

Lost! Anyway will await a refund :-(

How crap is that? Couriers really are shite. Can you not just ask Thomann to send you another?

stufisher · October 2023

@Dave_Mc ; I ordered a B stock one ... just wanted to keep price as low as possible.

@BillDL that's a really good suggestion ... shy bairns get nowt. I'll let you know what transpired.

Once I get the guitar I'll post some pics ... still hoping for a successful outcome to this low-cost project.

chor808 · October 2023

Offset said:

chor808 said:

chor808 said:

Still no where to be seen. DHL doing a sweep of the warehouse this morning to find it else it's lost. Will contact Thomman this morning again..:-(

Lost! Anyway will await a refund :-(

How crap is that? Couriers really are shite. Can you not just ask Thomann to send you another?

It was a b stock one so no...

Offset · October 2023

chor808 said:

Offset said:

chor808 said:

chor808 said:

Still no where to be seen. DHL doing a sweep of the warehouse this morning to find it else it's lost. Will contact Thomman this morning again..:-(

Lost! Anyway will await a refund :-(

How crap is that? Couriers really are shite. Can you not just ask Thomann to send you another?

It was a b stock one so no...

Doubly crap in that case :-(

blueskunk · October 2023

Hope it gets sorted. Thoman were great with my Jazzmaster.

BillDL · October 2023

chor808 said:

Offset said:

...........
How crap is that? Couriers really are shite. Can you not just ask Thomann to send you another?

It was a b stock one so no...

In many cases it is almost impossible to know WHY the guitar is a B-Stock one. I suspect that some may simply be unwanted returns, while others may just be returned by a very nit-picky recipient that found a tiny blemish on a £200 guitar and expected perfection at that price. The fact that they don't describe the specific reason for the guitar being B-Stock as far as I have ever seen, makes it hit and miss what you should reasonably expect to find wrong with the item - if anything. It would be no skin off Thomann's nose to send you a replacement A-Stock (for want of a better word).

When DHL said they would "do a sweep of the warehouse" is just a pacifying comment. Those warehouses are semi-organised chaos with double-decker trailers coming and going 24 hours a day. Cages of parcels are trundled on and off constantly and placed in holding lanes while being sorted and scanned. A small parcel like a jiffy bag might fall out of a cage and slide under a conveyor or racking, but a guitar sized box doesn't end up just lying around unnoticed. It's either been wrongly scanned, labelled and routed, and will be floating around different depots for a week or more, or somebody has stolen it.

Dave_Mc · October 2023

chor808 said:

chor808 said:

Still no where to be seen. DHL doing a sweep of the warehouse this morning to find it else it's lost. Will contact Thomman this morning again..:-(

Lost! Anyway will await a refund :-(

That's awful, I'm really sorry to hear that

stufisher said:

@Dave_Mc ;;;; I ordered a B stock one ... just wanted to keep price as low as possible.

Thanks! Sometimes you seem to get lucky with B-stock and sometimes you don't. I still think you should contact them as @BillDL said- here's Thomann's info about B-stock:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/faq_question_what_are_b_stock_products.html

"A "B-Stock" is a product which has been returned by a customer within their 30-Day Money-Back Guarantee or replaced under guarantee and can no longer be sold as "A-Stock". These products are offered at a special, reduced price, are fully functional and come with a full 3 year warranty and 30-Day Money-Back Guarantee. Customers may find that these products show traces of use or scuffing and may not come in their original packaging but will always be checked prior to shipment." (My bolding)

I'm not sure a dead pickup should count as "fully functional".

BillDL said:
In many cases it is almost impossible to know WHY the guitar is a B-Stock one. I suspect that some may simply be unwanted returns, while others may just be returned by a very nit-picky recipient that found a tiny blemish on a £200 guitar and expected perfection at that price. The fact that they don't describe the specific reason for the guitar being B-Stock as far as I have ever seen, makes it hit and miss what you should reasonably expect to find wrong with the item - if anything. It would be no skin off Thomann's nose to send you a replacement A-Stock (for want of a better word).

I think there are a couple of different descriptions for B-stock- you can start to read between the lines. I assume the stuff described as "Return that may have slight traces of use" is in the best condition, whereas "Return, slightly used" (or something like that) is in worse condition. Usually the latter has a more reduced starting price- however, if the former doesn't sell at its initial reduced price, it's usually reduced further to tempt people to buy it- this second reduction is often below the starting price of the latter.

(Also the percentage reduction varies even within those two descriptions- I assume a smaller reduction means better condition, but I could well be wrong about that. The dilemma I have with the B-stock stuff is that I suspect the best condition stuff has the smallest reduction- but sometimes that's only a few quid and I just think it's safer to pay full price at that point! A bigger reduction is more tempting, but then I worry it's going to be in poor condition...)

In other words if you hold fire and don't just buy it immediately (and if someone else doesn't blink first!) you can get it for less, even if it's a pretty good condition one.

I think. I've only ever bought one B-stock item from Thomann. But that's roughly what seems to be happening.

I definitely agree with you in general, though- I've seen tons of posts here where people got B-stock stuff where they genuinely couldn't see a single thing wrong with the item. It was perfect. I assume (like you) that those are unwanted returns, and that the original customer was very careful with the instrument and returned it as they received it. But you also can get less lucky and get one which was returned for a reason. It's a lottery, basically.

Dave_Mc · October 2023

My Filtertron Tele turned up today (it's a regular one, not B-stock). I haven't had that much chance to try it (it only turned up after 5pm and then I had a tennis match to go to) but from my limited trying so far... it's really, really nice.

Obviously I've lowered my expectations because it's so cheap and because I'm a realist, but it really is pretty nice- it's great for the money, and not bad at all even disregarding the price. It's no custom shop guitar- even with a pickup swap (!)- but it's playable out of the box (all I've done is tune it, and it was near-enough in tune (at least with itself) out of the box), at least for me. The pickups are pretty decent, too. It's fun, basically. I like the neck shape and neck finish and the fretwork is not bad at all- I've heard some horror stories about HB fretwork- mine were a little scratchy at the start but playing for a little while seems to have sorted it, there's the teeniest bit of sharp edges at a couple of frets if you run your hand up and down the edge of the fretboard, but very little and I've seen much worse on far more expensive guitars. The pots feel a bit cheap (and are a little noisy and scratchy when turned, at least at certain points), the tone pot is a bit all or nothing (I wonder if it's a linear pot? haven't had time to look yet) and a few of the tuners were a little stiff (though they seem to work fine and look really nice), but those are all very minor things, at least at the price.

Initial thoughts are that it's incredible for what it cost (£115). I was worried it would be a POS and not even playable at that price. I'd have been more or less content if it had been just about usable. It's *way* better than that. It's the only HB I've tried- maybe I got an exceptionally good one. Or maybe this model is the best one they do. But I'm super happy with the one I got, at least. If the other HBs are as good as this one, they're a no-brainer, at least at these 25% off sale prices.

BillDL · October 2023

I don't know how old you are @Dave_Mc but you're young enough to be playing tennis, so I'll guess a whole lot younger than me and perhaps you weren't around back in the 80s. If you were to roughly compare what it would cost for one of the more budget brand guitars back in the 80s and leave some flexibility when performing an "inflation" type of guide, the very rough equivalent of £115 back then would have bought you a plywood bodied guitar with soft alloy hardware, sloppy tuners, pretty crappy pickups with nice covers disguising what was under them, and very dodgy fretwork. I find it pretty incredible that £115 in today's money can buy such a well made and finished guitar that may or may not need some fine finishing work like smoothing off fret ends, polishing scratchy frets, sticking matchsticks in a couple of screw holes that are stripped or just some loose screw tightening, and a setup that is common to even much more expensive guitars. Beginners have never before had such a great choice of very playable budget guitars, and experienced players can now afford to try out different styles of guitars on modest salaries.

The one anomoly is that many of the cheap guitars back in the 80s had some exceptionally nice rosewood fretboards, and of a tight-grained standard you only get on pretty expensive guitars these days. It was plentiful then. Some of the budget guitars now have to use wood that is naturally more open grained or rougher in nature, even if it is sanded well. One wood that I really like on the fretboard of my Harley Benton DC-Junior is Amaranth. It may not all be the same, but it is tight-grained, dark and dense, and sanded very smoothly, almost as good as ebony.

Dave_Mc · October 2023

@BillDL ;(I edited my two posts a bit just in case you missed it.)

I was around in the 80s... just about! But I was more interested in Transformers and the A-Team then than guitars! I didn't start playing guitar until around 2000 I think.

I agree with you about the cost- even when I started playing (and quite a bit after that) I'm not sure £115 would have bought you much. You've hit the nail on the head about HB as well- they're great for players on a budget, and they're also great for players who aren't necessarily on a budget, but who don't want to spend a ton of money on a type of guitar they may not be too familiar with in case they don't like it.

BillDL · October 2023

I edited mine too by adding a 2nd paragraph while you were posting

Dave_Mc · October 2023

BillDL said:

I edited mine too by adding a 2nd paragraph while you were posting

LOL

Yeah nice rosewood is getting a lot harder to come by- even around the time I started playing I noticed rosewood getting noticeably worse over the first few years I played.

Amaranth looks interesting- it's purpleheart, isn't it?

This Filtertron Tele I got has baked Sungkai for the fretboard- it's really nice, actually! Only problem with these alternative woods is they don't look quite right on some of the classic guitars. But on anything else I'm all for it. Even on the classic ones, there's no point in getting the "right" wood if it's a terrible example of it!

BillDL · October 2023

Yes, Purpleheart (Peltogyne). There are different species, some of which are already at risk of over-exploitation and depletion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltogyne

https://www.wood-database.com/purpleheart/
http://www.woodassistant.com/wood-database/purpleheart-wood/
https://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/Woods_List/Purpleheart.asp

chor808 · October 2023

Good morning

We cannot locate this item it may have been returned to the senders as they had requested it back.
Please contact the senders to get replacement or refund.

Be interesting to see if they actually get it back or as it's been stolen. Assuming it will come available again as a b stock of it gets back to Germany. Really annoying...

BillDL · October 2023

I'm interested to see whether Thomann immediately despatches a new non-B grade one to you in view of the fact that there is proof that you never received it and the issues that have arisen are between them and DHL. You should not have to wait to see whether Thomann eventually receives the same guitar back by return carriage by DHL nor until another B-Stock one becomes available. They don't discount the B-Stock ones by a large margin, although their profit margins may already be slightly lower than for a large brand name guitar, so it would be a drop in the ocean for them as well as potentially retaining a customer if they immediately sent you a brand new one. There would be no harm in asking whether they would be prepared to do this for you. You aren't begging for grovellingly apologetic freebies by way of compensation, you're just asking for the guitar that you ordered or an equivalent replacement for guitar misplaced by their own courier, and if they take a very slight loss by sending a new one for B-Stock price, that's part of good customer service. They will be able to recoup some or all of the losses from DHL. I'm not sure if Thomann allow you to order as a "guest" without creating an account, but when making contact with them it's always best to be logged in at the time and you will generally get a response from the staff assigned to UK accounts. Whatever you don't mention "KDH" or "YouTube Channel"

chor808 · October 2023

BillDL said:

I'm interested to see whether Thomann immediately despatches a new non-B grade one to you in view of the fact that there is proof that you never received it and the issues that have arisen are between them and DHL. You should not have to wait to see whether Thomann eventually receives the same guitar back by return carriage by DHL nor until another B-Stock one becomes available. They don't discount the B-Stock ones by a large margin, although their profit margins may already be slightly lower than for a large brand name guitar, so it would be a drop in the ocean for them as well as potentially retaining a customer if they immediately sent you a brand new one. There would be no harm in asking whether they would be prepared to do this for you. You aren't begging for grovellingly apologetic freebies by way of compensation, you're just asking for the guitar that you ordered or an equivalent replacement for guitar misplaced by their own courier, and if they take a very slight loss by sending a new one for B-Stock price, that's part of good customer service. They will be able to recoup some or all of the losses from DHL. I'm not sure if Thomann allow you to order as a "guest" without creating an account, but when making contact with them it's always best to be logged in at the time and you will generally get a response from the staff assigned to UK accounts. Whatever you don't mention "KDH" or "YouTube Channel"

When I spoke to them (not in the best mood) they did not offer this and in fact they said I would have to wait for the return before I got my money back, which as you say it's not my problem it's between them and DHL. Anyway I'll talk to them again today they need to refund now..

They have always been good with other stuff to be fair..

BillDL · October 2023

If you really want that model of guitar it would be an opportune juncture to politely tell them that you are rather disappointed with this transaction, having previously been very impressed by their service on several occasions, and that will most likely no longer be interested in buying another Thomann product after you have been refunded in full. Careful wording, so it doesn't sound like you are shouting or angry but rather just disappointed, can very often work where a full-blown "complaint" sometimes makes a company double down. It all depends on who is reading and answering the emails though and how many complaints they have addressed that day.

"I like buying from Thomann and I really like Harley Benton products, but I don't think it is fair that I should have to wait for the guitar to be sent back to you by DHL before you refund me. I would far rather just have a replacement guitar sent to me. It is not my fault that DHL messed up the consignment. I regret to say that I am really disappointed by this situation and I will have to give some careful thought to whether I want to risk this kind of situation if I buy any more guitars and equipment from Thomann".

chor808 · October 2023

Refunded, then out of the blue it's arrived! It was supposed to be going back but they now delivered it to me incorrectly :-)

I've let Thomann know and it's staying. I'm trying to find fault with it but really for 171 blimey. Only think I can fault is the colour of the tuners (green), they work fine just a odd colour, one the tone pots cracks a little right at the minimum setting and I would say the nut needs cutting down a bit lower. The fit and finish is excellent, plays really well and sounds great.

Stuff like this makes you question your more expensive purchases....

BillDL · October 2023

That's good and unexpected news, but it's clearly been a bit of a shambles. Yes, the phlegm green keystone / tulip tuner buttons. They are just tooooo green to look old, as they are intended to. Some Wilkinson sets are like that and it's probable they are made by the same company.

Dave_Mc · October 2023

BillDL said:

Yes, Purpleheart (Peltogyne). There are different species, some of which are already at risk of over-exploitation and depletion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltogyne
https://www.wood-database.com/purpleheart/
http://www.woodassistant.com/wood-database/purpleheart-wood/
https://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/Woods_List/Purpleheart.asp

Oh great

You'd think they'd try to use stuff that's better-conserved, but then I guess that costs more money...

chor808 said:

Refunded, then out of the blue it's arrived! It was supposed to be going back but they now delivered it to me incorrectly :-)

I've let Thomann know and it's staying. I'm trying to find fault with it but really for 171 blimey. Only think I can fault is the colour of the tuners (green), they work fine just a odd colour, one the tone pots cracks a little right at the minimum setting and I would say the nut needs cutting down a bit lower. The fit and finish is excellent, plays really well and sounds great.

Stuff like this makes you question your more expensive purchases....

Wow that's great news! Glad you're liking it and it's in great condition.

I agree with you about the more expensive purchases- I have more expensive guitars, and I really like them (and I'd buy them again- at least at the original price I got them for, before price rises went crazy!)... but when you consider you could get 5 or 6 (or more) guitars for the price of one of these. I'm not sure you get 6 times as much fun out of a more expensive guitar. Granted, if I gigged, bombproof reliability and tuning stability etc. would be more important. And it does depend on the guitar type- some types you do sort of have to pay a bit for, to be fair.

EDIT: Oh yeah, my sister came round today to try mine and she loved it too.

Couple of other minor things I've noticed. The bridge pickup is maybe a little crooked in its rout (when I noticed this first I thought maybe the rout was in the wrong place, but I think it's just the pickup- it may be able to be easily straightened with a bit of luck). Couple of very minor blemishes a couple of places (like finish/gunk/shiny polish) but nothing to worry about for the price. Where the neck joins the body is a little rough (at the body, not the neck) but not too bad. Just slightly rough if you happened to run your finger over it too quickly. And it's a bit neck-heavy- that's the most annoying thing actually, though I have other guitars and basses that do that too and it's not really related to cost I don't think. I think maple must be a lot denser than Sungkai...

The tuners seem to have calmed down now, some are a little tighter to turn than others but they're basically fine now. And the tuning stability has calmed down now, just with playing, the strings are staying in tune just fine now.

So yeah still super happy.

carlos · October 2023

To everyone on this thread who bought a HB, how about some pictures?

chor808 · October 2023

trying to..

and given up... I can't work it out :-(

stufisher · October 2023

Ref my dead pickup SG ... I wrote to Thomann as @BillDL suggested (thanks again Bill) and I got a request yesterday.

They chastised me for not returning it and getting my tech to check it out but they have offered to partly compensate (amount TBC) for the work done to fix it. I need to send them his invoice for consideration.

So, we're working on that now (it'll be for his time and a new pot) ... I'll update with pics and the outcome in due course.

timmypix · October 2023

chor808 said:

trying to..

and given up... I can't work it out :-(

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/54241/posting-pics-vids-soundclips-how-to

chor808 · October 2023

Pjon · October 2023

chor808 said:

Refunded, then out of the blue it's arrived! It was supposed to be going back but they now delivered it to me incorrectly :-)

I've let Thomann know and it's staying. I'm trying to find fault with it but really for 171 blimey. Only think I can fault is the colour of the tuners (green), they work fine just a odd colour, one the tone pots cracks a little right at the minimum setting and I would say the nut needs cutting down a bit lower. The fit and finish is excellent, plays really well and sounds great.

Stuff like this makes you question your more expensive purchases....

You've just reminded me...

During lockdown I bought my wife an expensive (for us) watch for her birthday. It shipped from Holland, took forever with the courier and then disappeared. The retailer refunded me promptly, and a day or two later the watch turned up. We informed the retailer, who said to keep the watch. It was shortly after Brexit and maybe they just couldn't be arsed trying to get stuff through borders, which had been the initial problem. A short while later, my wife received a load of vouchers for her inconvenience, so bought some other jewellery. It was definitely win, win, win....

BillDL · October 2023

stufisher said:

I wrote to Thomann as @BillDL suggested (thanks again Bill) and I got a request yesterday.
They chastised me for not returning it and getting my tech to check it out but they have offered to partly compensate (amount TBC) for the work done to fix it. I need to send them his invoice for consideration.

That's where I would have called upon my "apologetic" tactic. Something along the lines of:

"I really didn't want to sound as though I was complaining, because I like the guitar a lot and I know that you are very busy having to deal with people complaining about trivial things all day, but I wanted to let you know just in case there has been a bad batch of pickups used".

I always liked Becks Bier, so when I saw a slab of 24 cans in Asda at a really good price on the run up to New Year many moons ago I snapped it up gleefully. Becks in cans was a new thing. It was only after I had a can that that tasted like pisswater I realised they were brewed by Scottish & Newcastle under licence. I found it hard to believe Becks would have allowed their beer to go out like that, but I couldn't find a UK contact to let them know there must be a bad batch, or that it was just shit. I ended up emailing Bremen.

I received a response within the hour apologising profusely (like Harry Enfield's Jurgen character apologising for the conduct of his nation in the war) and asking for my home address to send me replacements. I responded several times telling him I wasn't looking for freebies and simply wanted to alert them to the scheiße quality of their canned beer. He insisted and I relented. At 10am the next day - a Saturday no less - I had a UPS driver at my door with a case of 12 bombers very large bottles of Becks.

stufisher · October 2023

I totally concur with your view @BillDL ; ... on this occasion I've potentially missed a trick, however, yesterday I did get a positive outcome from a wine order feqqup ... £175-ish in my favour

BillDL · October 2023

@chor808 - That's actually a LOT nicer looking in the flesh than it is in the photos on the Thomann website. That is a really lovely looking guitar.

Tall_martin · October 2023

@chor808 ;That guitar looks splendid!

@dave_Mc Sounds like quite a lot of minor niggles, do you like the guitar?

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Harley Benton Guitars….

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