Ed Sheeran in court again for alleged plagiarism

ICBM · May 2023

Offset said:

Sheeran has said he'll exit the music business should he lose this case. That might please some but not me, and I think it would be a disastrous outcome for songwriting.

He's a talented guy and just because I don't like his music doesn't mean I'd want to deprive others of it.

He's also an individual songwriter who made his own luck and is at least largely responsible for the bulk of his own work - whatever you may think of his 'borrowing' - as opposed to the hundreds of records churned out by identikit interchangeable teams of songwriter/producers who are basically a factory. I'm actually quite open to mainstream pop music, I listen to daytime radio and (really!) own the whole Now That's What I Call Music series, but probably half of all the tracks on the last couple of dozen Now albums share at least one songwriter in common, and all - much more so than what our parents said about our music - do really sound very similar.

DefaultM · May 2023

I hope the jury are fans or they'll hear he's said that and say guilty no matter what.

Blueingreen · May 2023

EricTheWeary said:

Pjon said:

Offset said:

ICBM said:

Offset said:

...and then of course there is the uncanny resemblance between 'Hotel California' and Jethro Tull's 'We Used To Know'...

That one is a coincidence. It's been raised so many times by people who know that the Eagles toured with Tull, but easily disproved... Don Felder wrote the chord progression (the demo was called 'Mexican Reggae', because that's what it sounded like originally), but wasn't in the Eagles at the time - it was a couple of years before he joined.

Personally I don't even think it sounds that similar, and I'm a fan of both bands and have both albums. It's not even a particularly unusual chord progression and was quite likely used before either of them.

Fair points, but to my ear they resemble each other to a greater extent than some cases which have resulted in successful court cases.

I remember Ian Anderson pontificating about this at a gig, some time in the 90s. (I could have sworn he was making a joke about the songs being identical if one was played backwards, but it was a long time ago and my brain is getting old! ) I can see the same chord progression but can't hear an uncanny resemblance. Maybe I'm too familiar with both songs, if that's possible, so I asked a friend who doesn't know We Used To Know to listen to it while I was typing this and he thinks it sounds similar but also to a Wishbone Ash song of the same era.

What I do note is that Anderson loves bitching about any of his peers who were more successful. I read an article recently, promoting his new album, where he claimed he used to be ready and stocked up for a nuclear war and even kept weapons at hand. He comes across as such an odd man, often really unlikeable.

I watched a recent interview with him (Classic Album Review or whatever it’s called on YouTube) and he’s very much the grumpy gammon now. But based on the YouTube comments there’s a lot of cross over between Tull fans and being anti woke, Mail reading types (although I suspect they are mainly American).
Rock musicians were inherently a bit rebellious, a bit liberal and it’s always disappointing when so many of them turn into what their younger selves would have hated.
Apparently his voice is shot to ribbons now and Tull is basically him and whoever will put up with him. A law suit against The Eagles wouldn’t be a complete surprise, Anderson obviously feels aggrieved by modernity and that he is entitled to make things right for himself.

I recall a story about Anderson that popped up on one of the bass forums. My recollection of the details is a bit fuzzy but the gist is clear enough. He was touring America but for some reason I’ve now forgotten wanted to hire a double bass locally. So they advertised for people in the various cities on the tour willing to help out. One of the guys on the form heard about this and as a Tull fan offered him an instrument at what was a very modest charge…usd15 or something like that, just to cover his costs…and to his absolute astonishment Anderson, presumably a multi multi millionaire, haggled about the price.

Offset · May 2023

Blueingreen said:

I recall a story about Anderson that popped up on one of the bass forums. My recollection of the details is a bit fuzzy but the gist is clear enough. He was touring America but for some reason I’ve now forgotten wanted to hire a double bass locally. So they advertised for people in the various cities on the tour willing to help out. One of the guys on the form heard about this and as a Tull fan offered him an instrument at what was a very modest charge…usd15 or something like that, just to cover his costs…and to his absolute astonishment Anderson, presumably a multi multi millionaire, haggled about the price.

I think what you're saying in a very tactful way is that he's a bit of a twat.

darthed1981 · May 2023

Offset said:

Sheeran has said he'll exit the music business should he lose this case. That might please some but not me, and I think it would be a disastrous outcome for songwriting.

He's a talented guy and just because I don't like his music doesn't mean I'd want to deprive others of it.

It will actively kill songwriting.

If this case is lost, it will not be commercially worth releasing original music any more (it barely is anyway for people who aren't Sheeran, TayTay or Katy Perry), some ass somewhere will have done something similar enough to take all your money.

darthed1981 · May 2023

EricTheWeary said:

DB’s take, quite an interesting watch:

https://youtu.be/FcU0Rc5iXFg

Spot.Fucking.On.

beed84 · May 2023

Sheeran could be doing without this hassle if he based his pop music around diminished chords and super locrian melodies.

roberty · May 2023

beed84 said:

Sheeran could be doing without this hassle if he based his pop music around diminished chords and super locrian melodies.

You are Django Reinhardt and I claim my five pounds

Yorkie · May 2023

Not liable. Until next time?

Vintage65 · May 2023

Vintage65 said:

It was quite obvious from this video I posted, and I would blame the producer for any misunderstanding.

GoFish · May 2023

The Pulp thing above is very cool. It reminds me of the Austrian electro pop song, Codo, that is claimed to be the inspirtion for the Buffy the Vampire Slayer theme tune:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhEII8HQ-b8

Kittyfrisk · May 2023

Thankfully for music generally, Sheeran's win was a good result.
Reserving my judgement on his tunes though

stickyfiddle · May 2023

Thank fuck for that

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/may/04/ed-sheeran-verdict-not-liable-copyright-lawsuit-marvin-gaye

Teetonetal · May 2023

Good news, I think.

roberty · May 2023

Like I say, he knows what to rip off and how

A good day for music, and a bad day for music

joneve · May 2023

I haven't read the thread, but he's threatened to retire if he loses so fingers crossed!

ICBM · May 2023

joneve said:

I haven't read the thread, but he's threatened to retire if he loses so fingers crossed!

Bit late - he won

.

joneve · May 2023

oh FFS. haha.

Lestratcaster · May 2023

To have to take his guitar on a stand to court to show the judge the songs are different is a new one. I know he uses 4 chords and kinda recycles the progressions but he's a good artist and I can see why he sells a lot of records.

As a guitar teacher he's responsible for bring me a few new learners each year who want to play his style of music - capo'd steel string acoustic 4 open chord shape progression songs.

thing · May 2023

Lestratcaster said:

To have to take his guitar on a stand to court to show the judge the songs are different is a new one. I know he uses 4 chords and kinda recycles the progressions but he's a good artist and I can see why he sells a lot of records.

As a guitar teacher he's responsible for bring me a few new learners each year who want to play his style of music - capo'd steel string acoustic 4 open chord shape progression songs.

Yeah I love the guy, got lots of work through his popularity when I was teaching. Same with Noel Gallagher.

rsvmark · May 2023

I binge watched the 4 part series on Disney + last night. While heavily edited etc etc I can’t help liking the guy. His music doesn’t do much for me but, and here’s the but, it shows quite a lot about his process. Fuck em all, music is music and long May that continue. I am of the view that disgruntled folks are seriously looking to lawyers to maximise £. Sod them. Am I right in thinking that it’s Sherman 2, lawyers nil? What about other cases?

RocknRollDave · May 2023

Lestratcaster said:

To have to take his guitar on a stand to court to show the judge the songs are different is a new one. I know he uses 4 chords and kinda recycles the progressions but he's a good artist and I can see why he sells a lot of records.

As a guitar teacher he's responsible for bring me a few new learners each year who want to play his style of music - capo'd steel string acoustic 4 open chord shape progression songs.

There’s a bit more to what he does than that.

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Ed Sheeran in court again for alleged plagiarism

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