Ed Sheeran in court again for alleged plagiarism

barnstorm · April 2023

JezWynd said:

Since Sheeran settled an earlier case out of court he seems to have become a target for any chancer with some music rights.

I think there have been a couple of cases now where a credit has been given.

Who knows whether that's because it was the sensible thing to do from a stress/money/time point of view, or because he had unconsciously reproduced something he'd heard before. (That terrible Hill/McGraw song, for example, was very similar in parts to the terrible song by the Australian lady, although Sheeran was only a co-writer on the former.)

But the fact that he's settled out of court before and refuses to here does suggest he and his lawyers think this is a real dogshit claim.

Funny how a case like this one drags on for years and other times hit pop songs appear with really striking similarities and there's (apparently) no aggro at all, e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG8IkUoZ6j0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZXHBgjQjNM

In the same year as one another, no less!

thecolourbox · April 2023

I'm not really sure that makes him a bad person by default though, or that he's somehow a fraud, just because he went to a private school and somebody knew somebody who supposedly heard him say he was homeless or something. He always seems nice enough and clearly has worked hard at a career that would not normally be encouraged by posh boy schools.

merlin · April 2023

If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out....

You don't have to pay the little troglodyte any attention at all if you really don't like him. You are also not required to buy his shitty, unwashed arsehole music. That is unless you secretly like it, like the 13 year old me buying the single Bohemian Rhapsody when it came out and pretending I didn't like it to my friends.

thecolourbox · April 2023

barnstorm said:

JezWynd said:

Since Sheeran settled an earlier case out of court he seems to have become a target for any chancer with some music rights.

I think there have been a couple of cases now where a credit has been given.

Who knows whether that's because it was the sensible thing to do from a stress/money/time point of view, or because he had unconsciously reproduced something he'd heard before. (That terrible Hill/McGraw song, for example, was very similar in parts to the terrible song by the Australian lady, although Sheeran was only a co-writer on the former.)

But the fact that he's settled out of court before and refuses to here does suggest he and his lawyers think this is a real dogshit claim.

Funny how a case like this one drags on for years and other times hit pop songs appear with really striking similarities and there's (apparently) no aggro at all, e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG8IkUoZ6j0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZXHBgjQjNM

In the same year as one another, no less!

They were probably the same people involved

barnstorm · April 2023

thecolourbox said:

They were probably the same people involved

It might as well have been exactly the same personnel all around! But I think they were totally separate in terms of management and labels at that point, despite both bands being Pearlman creations, and certainly the writers of those two songs were different.

Maybe there's just some sort of code among people operating in the cookie-cutter music business. I won't make a fuss if you 'borrow' from me, because my next song will probably sound like one of yours…

KDS · April 2023

roberty said:

thecolourbox said:

roberty said:

Princess Beatrice once accidentally sliced Sheeran's face open with a ceremonial sword, which may be a clue as to the nature of his class background

https://observer.com/2020/10/princess-beatrice-cut-ed-sheeran-face-sword-confirmed-manager-royal-lodge-james-blunt/

Five years after his first album? And after about 6.5m album sales as well

Coming straight out of Hebden, crazy motherfucker called Sheeran, from a band called, Ed Sheeran
His father was a curator at Cartwright Hall in Bradford and his mother worked at Manchester City Art Gallery. In December 1995 he moved with his family from Hebden Bridge to Framlingham in Suffolk, where he attended the independent Brandeston Hall preparatory school

That’s brilliant

if we recorded a version of that would we be in court facing Sheran or NWA?

Vintage65 · April 2023

roberty said:

Princess Beatrice once accidentally sliced Sheeran's face open with a ceremonial sword, which may be a clue as to the nature of his class background

https://observer.com/2020/10/princess-beatrice-cut-ed-sheeran-face-sword-confirmed-manager-royal-lodge-james-blunt/

It's such a pity that she never decapitated him and saved me from any further ear bashing!

merlin · April 2023

Vintage65 said:

roberty said:

Princess Beatrice once accidentally sliced Sheeran's face open with a ceremonial sword, which may be a clue as to the nature of his class background

https://observer.com/2020/10/princess-beatrice-cut-ed-sheeran-face-sword-confirmed-manager-royal-lodge-james-blunt/

It's such a pity she never decapitated him and saved me from any further ear bashing!

Damn good job they weren't playing fake "Russian Roulette" with "unloaded" hand guns.

theatreanchor · April 2023

Even if I don’t like them or their music, anyone making a living from music deserves whatever they can get.

Offset · April 2023

roberty said:

Radiohead had to give a load of money to the Hollies for similarities to their song Creep. Then later Lana Del Ray had to give moneymto Radiohead because of similarities between Creep and a song of her own

I presume Creep was lifted from The Air That I Breathe (Google confirms). Not a likeness that immediately sprang to mind I must confess, even though Radiohead admitted using the refrain.

The most blatant and obvious piece of plagiarism was committed by a band I really like - The Flaming Lips. Their track 'Fight Test' is an obvious lift of Cat Stevens' 'Father & Son' and it forcibly struck me the very first time I heard it. Stevens gets 75% of the royalties. And I'd have to say deservedly so.

The Sheeran thing is just a naked and slightly sickening money-grab. Very distasteful.

Offset · April 2023

ICBM said:

"A plagiarism on both their houses" - William Shakespeare

FTFY.

Offset · April 2023

roberty said:

According to a FOH friend who knows people who have worked with him, he's really good to work with and treats everyone well. People will be more inclined to help you if they have good experiences. He wouldn't have got where he is by being a prick, not with that face

Tentative I know, but a close friend worked with a guy whose son was good friends with Sheeran at school. A young Ed would come round to this chap's house to play with his lad. Nothing but nice things to say about ES - a lovely kid apparently and nothing much has changed over the years.

I don't like his music in the slightest but I wouldn't begrudge him a penny of his considerable fortune. He's talented, has worked hard and has got there without being a tosser. Frankly there are too few successful people like him around so more power to his elbow.

stickyfiddle · April 2023

Adam Neely is on point, as usual

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpzLD-SAwW8

And also on his views on music copyright in general

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAFUdIZnI5o&t=0s

roberty · April 2023

Offset said:
The most blatant and obvious piece of plagiarism was committed by a band I really like - The Flaming Lips. Their track 'Fight Test' is an obvious lift of Cat Stevens' 'Father & Son' and it forcibly struck me the very first time I heard it. Stevens gets 75% of the royalties. And I'd have to say deservedly so.

This is probably the worst I've heard

Offset · April 2023

...and then of course there is the uncanny resemblance between 'Hotel California' and Jethro Tull's 'We Used To Know'...

ICBM · April 2023

Offset said:

...and then of course there is the uncanny resemblance between 'Hotel California' and Jethro Tull's 'We Used To Know'...

That one is a coincidence. It's been raised so many times by people who know that the Eagles toured with Tull, but easily disproved... Don Felder wrote the chord progression (the demo was called 'Mexican Reggae', because that's what it sounded like originally), but wasn't in the Eagles at the time - it was a couple of years before he joined.

Personally I don't even think it sounds that similar, and I'm a fan of both bands and have both albums. It's not even a particularly unusual chord progression and was quite likely used before either of them.

Jfingers · April 2023

Since I know how popular Green Day, Oasis, Travis and Eminem are on here, I thought I'd share this with you all. I don't mind it, certainly wouldn't turn the car radio off, might even turn it up!

Offset · April 2023

ICBM said:

Offset said:

...and then of course there is the uncanny resemblance between 'Hotel California' and Jethro Tull's 'We Used To Know'...

That one is a coincidence. It's been raised so many times by people who know that the Eagles toured with Tull, but easily disproved... Don Felder wrote the chord progression (the demo was called 'Mexican Reggae', because that's what it sounded like originally), but wasn't in the Eagles at the time - it was a couple of years before he joined.

Personally I don't even think it sounds that similar, and I'm a fan of both bands and have both albums. It's not even a particularly unusual chord progression and was quite likely used before either of them.

Fair points, but to my ear they resemble each other to a greater extent than some cases which have resulted in successful court cases.

roberty · April 2023

I was told a story by someone who was acquainted with pulp in the 1980s. There was this song that was popular in Europe and bands used to bring copies of it back from tours as a sort of meme/souvenir/running gag

The similarities are painfully obvious to anyone from Spain apparently

This person basically thinks Common People was written in part as a kind of an in joke

BillDL · April 2023

Adam Neely summed this up as far as I am concerned. If you want to write or perform a song in a particular genre you need to conform to a rhythmic style or include certain musical motifs that make it sound like that genre or else the music will sound like another genre. You can't (or shouldn't be able to) copyright a chord progression. Should people be able to protect their genre and gather royalties from other songs that use the same motifs and elements to make songs sound correct for a particular genre?

Sheeran clearly chose to perform solo with an acoustic guitar fairly early on - more or less "busking". Part of solo busking with an acoustic guitar is being able to use fairly minimalistic chord changes and include catchy strum or pick patterns to fill in for the absence of other instruments and also make it easy to sing over. Going back to some of his older solo songs on acoustic he seems to have always used a little hammer-on kind of "bounce" to embellish his rhythmic style of playing, usually just before a chord change. That little "bounce" does sound like a leading note in a few songs I've heard in the same genre as Marvin Gaye. Sheeran most likely picked this up in much the same way as other musicians pick up little "signatures" and incorporate them into their own playing. When it comes right down to musical notation, it is this rhythmic style that is being cited as the main "evidence of plagiarism" in the current case.

Personally I think a win by the songwriter's estate here would open floodgates for thousands of other spurious law suits. Who "owns" the drum rim shots that open just about every song written or performed in a Reggae style? Does anybody have artistic ownership of "skank" style of up-strums on the treble strings on the 2 and 4 beats? It won't stop.

Jfingers · April 2023

Ed Sheeran lives about 40 minutes from me on a good run. I don't listen to him if it's not live and solo with a looper, and on the telly and Mrs J wants to (she's younger, bless her)

I've been aware of him long before he was rich from what he does.

The folk of Framlingham aren't very keen on what he's done there, but he has helped the locals much in the way that the Monarchy have, by bringing in tourist money to see the castle on the hill.

He did a 'surprise' solo gig outside Ipswich corn exchange quite recently, after buying one of his signature models from a nearby music shop. Afterwards he gave said guitar, signed, to a 12 year old boy in the crowd.

Suffolk like him a lot. He was very friendly in a Co Op with myself and my Daughter.

The East Anglian Daily Times can't seem to bring themselves to write about much else.

Supportact · April 2023

roberty said:

I was told a story by someone who was acquainted with pulp in the 1980s. There was this song that was popular in Europe and bands used to bring copies of it back from tours as a sort of meme/souvenir/running gag

The similarities are painfully obvious to anyone from Spain apparently

This person basically thinks Common People was written in part as a kind of an in joke

I didn't know about this, very interesting.

EricTheWeary · April 2023

DB’s take, quite an interesting watch:

https://youtu.be/FcU0Rc5iXFg

jonnyburgo · April 2023

As time goes on its looking more and more like he's plagiarising Donald Trump's Haircut

roberty · May 2023

jonnyburgo said:

As time goes on its looking more and more like he's plagiarising Donald Trump's Haircut

Top of the populists

Pjon · May 2023

Offset said:

ICBM said:

Offset said:

...and then of course there is the uncanny resemblance between 'Hotel California' and Jethro Tull's 'We Used To Know'...

That one is a coincidence. It's been raised so many times by people who know that the Eagles toured with Tull, but easily disproved... Don Felder wrote the chord progression (the demo was called 'Mexican Reggae', because that's what it sounded like originally), but wasn't in the Eagles at the time - it was a couple of years before he joined.

Personally I don't even think it sounds that similar, and I'm a fan of both bands and have both albums. It's not even a particularly unusual chord progression and was quite likely used before either of them.

Fair points, but to my ear they resemble each other to a greater extent than some cases which have resulted in successful court cases.

I remember Ian Anderson pontificating about this at a gig, some time in the 90s. (I could have sworn he was making a joke about the songs being identical if one was played backwards, but it was a long time ago and my brain is getting old!

) I can see the same chord progression but can't hear an uncanny resemblance. Maybe I'm too familiar with both songs, if that's possible, so I asked a friend who doesn't know We Used To Know to listen to it while I was typing this and he thinks it sounds similar but also to a Wishbone Ash song of the same era.

What I do note is that Anderson loves bitching about any of his peers who were more successful. I read an article recently, promoting his new album, where he claimed he used to be ready and stocked up for a nuclear war and even kept weapons at hand. He comes across as such an odd man, often really unlikeable.

roberty · May 2023

@Pjon he does, and that's why Tony Iommi says he left Jethro Tull. Tony seems like a nice man, particularly for someone who birthed the heavy metal genre

EricTheWeary · May 2023

Pjon said:

Offset said:

ICBM said:

Offset said:

...and then of course there is the uncanny resemblance between 'Hotel California' and Jethro Tull's 'We Used To Know'...

That one is a coincidence. It's been raised so many times by people who know that the Eagles toured with Tull, but easily disproved... Don Felder wrote the chord progression (the demo was called 'Mexican Reggae', because that's what it sounded like originally), but wasn't in the Eagles at the time - it was a couple of years before he joined.

Personally I don't even think it sounds that similar, and I'm a fan of both bands and have both albums. It's not even a particularly unusual chord progression and was quite likely used before either of them.

Fair points, but to my ear they resemble each other to a greater extent than some cases which have resulted in successful court cases.

I remember Ian Anderson pontificating about this at a gig, some time in the 90s. (I could have sworn he was making a joke about the songs being identical if one was played backwards, but it was a long time ago and my brain is getting old! ) I can see the same chord progression but can't hear an uncanny resemblance. Maybe I'm too familiar with both songs, if that's possible, so I asked a friend who doesn't know We Used To Know to listen to it while I was typing this and he thinks it sounds similar but also to a Wishbone Ash song of the same era.

What I do note is that Anderson loves bitching about any of his peers who were more successful. I read an article recently, promoting his new album, where he claimed he used to be ready and stocked up for a nuclear war and even kept weapons at hand. He comes across as such an odd man, often really unlikeable.

I watched a recent interview with him (Classic Album Review or whatever it’s called on YouTube) and he’s very much the grumpy gammon now. But based on the YouTube comments there’s a lot of cross over between Tull fans and being anti woke, Mail reading types (although I suspect they are mainly American).

Rock musicians were inherently a bit rebellious, a bit liberal and it’s always disappointing when so many of them turn into what their younger selves would have hated.

Apparently his voice is shot to ribbons now and Tull is basically him and whoever will put up with him. A law suit against The Eagles wouldn’t be a complete surprise, Anderson obviously feels aggrieved by modernity and that he is entitled to make things right for himself.

Pjon · May 2023

EricTheWeary said:
Apparently his voice is shot to ribbons now and Tull is basically him and whoever will put up with him. A law suit against The Eagles wouldn’t be a complete surprise, Anderson obviously feels aggrieved by modernity and that he is entitled to make things right for himself.

His voice had gone by the last time I went to see Tull, and that must be over 20 years ago. I've listened to the new album and it's very uninspiring in any respect, never mind when compared to the back catalogue. I chatted with one of his previous bandmates years ago, and this person didn't have much time for IA, to put it mildly.

I know it's a fairly minor thing, but his lack of respect for the name of the band seems to mirror his treatment of former bandmates. He claimed that the name was foisted on them and so they/he needed to show no loyalty to it. Presumably up to the point where his own name on albums didn't sell, so he needed to use the band name again...

I didn't know about the 'anti-woke' type of fans. Makes me sad. They were a brilliant band in their heyday.

Anyway, sorry, this is very OT!

Offset · May 2023

Sheeran has said he'll exit the music business should he lose this case. That might please some but not me, and I think it would be a disastrous outcome for songwriting.

He's a talented guy and just because I don't like his music doesn't mean I'd want to deprive others of it.

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Ed Sheeran in court again for alleged plagiarism

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