Ed Sheeran in court again for alleged plagiarism

barnstorm · April 2023

Had a dig for this article I remembered reading:

https://completemusicupdate.com/article/judge-declines-to-dismiss-new-ed-sheeran-song-theft-litigation-that-relies-on-newly-registered-marvin-gaye-copyright/

Technicalities seem to matter more than the music in many cases.

Also, must be absolutely maddening to keep finding yourself back in court over the same thing.

Philly_Q · April 2023

I was going to try to compare the two songs, but after 10 seconds of Sheeran I couldn't stand it any more.

roberty · April 2023

Philly_Q said:

I was going to try to compare the two songs, but after 10 seconds of Sheeran I couldn't stand it any more.

I actually felt a bit sick

Jazz professor Ricky B is on the case now

Open_G · April 2023

It worries me that a chord progression could potentially be copyrighted. Maybe an 8th note root note bassline is next, or a rock shuffle.

Barnezy · April 2023

This is why Jazz is the only true form of individual expression in music…….. it’s Just a shame most of it is horrible to listen to.

When do we think Kellogg’s will file a case against Ed for copying the Honey Monsters look?

Kittyfrisk · April 2023

I wonder if it's too late to sue Nancy Sinatra & Lee Hazlewood for ripping off the James Bond opening horn signature from Thunderball?

Go to 3m 44s

Vintage65 · April 2023

Danny1969 · April 2023

You can still steal stuff in music, we all do as soak up what we hear whether we like it or not. Once you realize though it's a good idea to change it a little bit... there's a lot he could have done that would kept it as a good song but avoided a lawsuit.

Apparently he said in court he writes upto 9 songs a day ... I'm beginning to see why I can't stand his music..

EricTheWeary · April 2023

roberty said:

Philly_Q said:

I was going to try to compare the two songs, but after 10 seconds of Sheeran I couldn't stand it any more.

I actually felt a bit sick

Jazz professor Ricky B is on the case now

That seems to set it out pretty clearly.

Danny1969 said:

You can still steal stuff in music, we all do as soak up what we hear whether we like it or not. Once you realize though it's a good idea to change it a little bit... there's a lot he could have done that would kept it as a good song but avoided a lawsuit.

Apparently he said in court he writes upto 9 songs a day ... I'm beginning to see why I can't stand his music..

IIRC Ed said he videos his songwriting sessions with his partner in order to have evidence that they are original creations. May have been since the Marvin Gaye case first came up, I can’t quite remember. Although I never understood how it would show he hadn’t just listened to Gaye or The Beatles or whoever in the car just before walking into the studio.

DefaultM · April 2023

CaseOfAce said:

When I first heard Sheeran's song my immediate reaction was... that's a pretty audacious lift of the Gaye classic.

Same chord progression / same rhythm and the way he sings it. He and his co-writer (Amy Wadge) MUST have been aware of Let's Get It On.

Both are based (sort of ) on the same I IIIm IV V progression.
In Sheeran's case it's D -> D/F# -> G -> A and the Gaye version is in the piano friendly key of Ebm -> Gm -> Ab -> Bb7.

He's got previous - the why oh why thing from Shape of You and perhaps most glaringly the note for note copy he settled out of court for the Tim McGraw / Faith Hill hit The Rest Of Our Life.

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

Ed has got an explanation.

Towards the end of his evidence session, Sheeran was asked by his lawyer why an expert called by the plaintiffs had demonstrated how the chords in Thinking Out Loud are similar to Let's Get It On.

He replied: "He was saying that because it helps his argument."

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/music/ed-sheeran-plays-guitar-in-court-as-he-tries-to-prove-he-didn-t-copy-marvin-gaye-track/ar-AA1asbti?ocid=BingHPC

bobacco · April 2023

It’s quite amazing that a classic track can be detected within Sheeran’s insipid ‘music-by-numbers’ approach. The guy is a fraud with a backstory as credible as a Prince Andrew testimony and his music is lowest common denominator ear-slop for people that like to dilute their Evian.

As much as a litigious schooling may be deserved, unfortunately it sets a dangerous precedent for recording artists that I can’t really abide.

ICBM · April 2023

bobacco said:

As much as a litigious schooling may be deserved, unfortunately it sets a dangerous precedent for recording artists that I can’t really abide.

"A plague on both their houses" - William Shakespeare

(Not immune to accusations of 'borrowing' from earlier works himself!)

Creed_Clicks · April 2023

@bobacco out of curiosity, what's the backstory that is not credible? I am totally unaware of any of his backstory tbh.

bobacco · April 2023

Creed_Clicks said:

@bobacco out of curiosity, what's the backstory that is not credible? I am totally unaware of any of his backstory tbh.

I’m not especially versed, but a mate of mine has quite a burning hatred for him and apparently, when he was first getting attention in he made out he slept rough and had this hard-done-by upbringing, but actually went to the BRIT School and the ‘fallen on hard times’ schtick was the musical equivalent of WWE storylines.

I can however vouch entirely for his music being as spicy as a petit filous.

stickyfiddle · April 2023

bobacco said:

Creed_Clicks said:

@bobacco out of curiosity, what's the backstory that is not credible? I am totally unaware of any of his backstory tbh.

I’m not especially versed, but a mate of mine has quite a burning hatred for him and apparently, when he was first getting attention in he made out he slept rough and had this hard-done-by upbringing, but actually went to the BRIT School and the ‘fallen on hard times’ schtick was the musical equivalent of WWE storylines.

I can however vouch entirely for his music being as spicy as a petit filous.

Yeah that would be a great argument if it wasn't bollocks. He went to his local high school and then ACM for a bit. He then worked his ass off and got lucky - same as basically everyone you've ever heard of who's sold more than a few hundred records.

I don't understand why unsuccessful musos always get so salty at the success of others. It's not my cup of tea but I don't begrudge the guy for writing some hits.

bobacco · April 2023

stickyfiddle said:

bobacco said:

Creed_Clicks said:

@bobacco out of curiosity, what's the backstory that is not credible? I am totally unaware of any of his backstory tbh.

I’m not especially versed, but a mate of mine has quite a burning hatred for him and apparently, when he was first getting attention in he made out he slept rough and had this hard-done-by upbringing, but actually went to the BRIT School and the ‘fallen on hard times’ schtick was the musical equivalent of WWE storylines.

I can however vouch entirely for his music being as spicy as a petit filous.

Yeah that would be a great argument if it wasn't bollocks. He went to his local high school and then ACM for a bit. He then worked his ass off and got lucky - same as basically everyone you've ever heard of who's sold more than a few hundred records.

I don't understand why unsuccessful musos always get so salty at the success of others. It's not my cup of tea but I don't begrudge the guy for writing some hits.

Well, every day is a school day. I don’t care enough about his milquetoast crooning to educate myself on his biography, but fair enough.

Thanks for the ‘unsuccessful miso’ dig - I’ve never actually pursued success musically, so it’s a little off-target. I don’t begrudge his success, I just have zero interest in his music. If it wasn’t him, it would be someone else. Fair play to him; doing what he loves, lauded and wealthy. Plenty of fodder for jealousy.

stickyfiddle · April 2023

To be fair, my dig wasn't necessarily at you but the general tone of looking down on the guy among "real" musicians when he's clearly got chops as a writer and performer. It just irks me!

Teetonetal · April 2023

EricTheWeary said:

roberty said:

Philly_Q said:

I was going to try to compare the two songs, but after 10 seconds of Sheeran I couldn't stand it any more.

I actually felt a bit sick

Jazz professor Ricky B is on the case now

That seems to set it out pretty clearly.

Danny1969 said:

You can still steal stuff in music, we all do as soak up what we hear whether we like it or not. Once you realize though it's a good idea to change it a little bit... there's a lot he could have done that would kept it as a good song but avoided a lawsuit.

Apparently he said in court he writes upto 9 songs a day ... I'm beginning to see why I can't stand his music..

IIRC Ed said he videos his songwriting sessions with his partner in order to have evidence that they are original creations. May have been since the Marvin Gaye case first came up, I can’t quite remember. Although I never understood how it would show he hadn’t just listened to Gaye or The Beatles or whoever in the car just before walking into the studio.

Nic piece of analysis.

Now for me - until the similarity was pointed out, I did not hear it, I am not a Marvin Gaye fan, but am aware of the song. Listening side by side.

The Sheeran verse is less embellished than Gaye's, it feels different even though chords, strum pattern and beat are the same, but the wah guitar part is what makes Let's get it on sound like it does.

Personally, I don't think there is intentional plagiarism - it's a very, very simple beat and chord sequence that would be very easy to stumble upon.

bobacco · April 2023

stickyfiddle said:

To be fair, my dig wasn't necessarily at you but the general tone of looking down on the guy among "real" musicians when he's clearly got chops as a writer and performer. It just irks me!

Yeah, I get that - he can play, for sure; not just a prop guitar and whilst it isn’t for me, his music has a LOT of appeal across a broad demographic. Pretty sure he isn’t losing sleep because of my snippy comments!

Anyways, apologies if I was a bit coarse and caused offence or whatever; 99% of the time I rant about stuff I’m not particularly invested in just through boredom, haha.

roberty · April 2023

According to a FOH friend who knows people who have worked with him, he's really good to work with and treats everyone well. People will be more inclined to help you if they have good experiences. He wouldn't have got where he is by being a prick, not with that face

EricTheWeary · April 2023

There were definitely 'school of hard knocks' type stories about Sheeran although where they came from I don't know. For someone with a relatively privileged background including a fair dollop of musical training you could argue that churning out four chord, three minute songs many of which resemble something off the R2 playlist is under achieving.
But amazing live performer and for anyone on here who has struggled with a looper he's a feckin God.

GoFish · April 2023

re: looopers - KT Tunstall says "Hi".

To wade in, I don't want to knock Sheeran for his musical ability - he's clearly very skilled - but the "plucky underdog" stories that seem to travel so well in the press are very annoying - not just about him, mind. I think some take umbridge that a story of exceptional luck and hard work and a lot of help gets turned into another "everyperson in adversity with just their muse" story. When origins and the paths to success are misrepresented (perhaps by his agents, I dunno) it can chafe as it suggests a pure meritocracy when things are not that simple.

As an aside, the steps from moderate or pretty full on success in music to sustaining international pop-star levels of fame are are huge and have very little to do with muscal abilities or songwriting. Focus, hard work, marketing, exposure, collaborations, touring, repetition, image, and luck all play a biger part in continuing to appeal to the widest demographic over multiple releases. Pure showmanship at that level imo. It makes the exceptions like Taylor Swift all the more notable.

roberty · April 2023

Princess Beatrice once accidentally sliced Sheeran's face open with a ceremonial sword, which may be a clue as to the nature of his class background

https://observer.com/2020/10/princess-beatrice-cut-ed-sheeran-face-sword-confirmed-manager-royal-lodge-james-blunt/

roberty · April 2023

@GoFish wis for that KT Tunstall comment, she is a force of nature

bobacco · April 2023

@roberty Honourable mention for Bernhoft; nifty with a looper and a great voice.

JezWynd · April 2023

Teetonetal said:
Nic piece of analysis.

Now for me - until the similarity was pointed out, I did not hear it, I am not a Marvin Gaye fan, but am aware of the song. Listening side by side.

The Sheeran verse is less embellished than Gaye's, it feels different even though chords, strum pattern and beat are the same, but the wah guitar part is what makes Let's get it on sound like it does.

Personally, I don't think there is intentional plagiarism - it's a very, very simple beat and chord sequence that would be very easy to stumble upon.

I struggled to hear the M Gaye too and I often listen to his music. If anyone should be in court it should surely be the Producer, who took the underlying arrangement. Since Sheeran settled an earlier case out of court he seems to have become a target for any chancer with some music rights.

I'm not a fan of his music; it's vanilla, music by numbers and he appears to have hit upon a formula that he's milked relentlessly but in a business where originality is hard to come by he shouldn't be begrudged his hard work and talent as an entertainer. Headlining Glastonbury as a solo act was a ballsy thing to do and he seemed to win the crowd - good luck to him.

thecolourbox · April 2023

roberty said:

Princess Beatrice once accidentally sliced Sheeran's face open with a ceremonial sword, which may be a clue as to the nature of his class background

https://observer.com/2020/10/princess-beatrice-cut-ed-sheeran-face-sword-confirmed-manager-royal-lodge-james-blunt/

Five years after his first album? And after about 6.5m album sales as well

CaseOfAce · April 2023

Ed Sheeran was signed with Rocket Records - Elton John's management company.

That opened a lot of doors. Sheeran's manager Stuart Camp has since left in 2018 with sheeran.

I don't doubt though that Sheeran has worked seriously hard and paid his dues gigging / promotion wise.

To make it big you need music industry support and clout. It's not enough to have talent, ambition and songs (borrowed or otherwise!).
That and a whole heap of luck.

Bennyboy-UK · April 2023

I remember seeing part of a video of Ed Sheeran on stage singing this bloody song with John Mayer playing the most horrible old manky shite solo on a (exceptionally cool) Pink Jackson Soloist.

When I saw that I thought, "John Mayer must have said to Ed Sheeran, this new song of yours also sounds just like my song Waiting on the World to Change, and unless you let me come on stage and piss horribly all over it I'll see you in court".

Well thats what I imagined anyway...

roberty · April 2023

thecolourbox said:

roberty said:

Princess Beatrice once accidentally sliced Sheeran's face open with a ceremonial sword, which may be a clue as to the nature of his class background

https://observer.com/2020/10/princess-beatrice-cut-ed-sheeran-face-sword-confirmed-manager-royal-lodge-james-blunt/

Five years after his first album? And after about 6.5m album sales as well

Coming straight out of Hebden, crazy motherfucker called Sheeran, from a band called, Ed Sheeran

His father was a curator at Cartwright Hall in Bradford and his mother worked at Manchester City Art Gallery. In December 1995 he moved with his family from Hebden Bridge to Framlingham in Suffolk, where he attended the independent Brandeston Hall preparatory school

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Ed Sheeran in court again for alleged plagiarism

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