Treble booster vs Boost with 3-knob EQ

Cookiemonster · April 2023

Yorkie said:

Ok. Tested again with the commercial cables and there does seem to be a tad more signal. Brought the AC15 to the edge of breakup, then plugged the treble booster and played for half an hour until the battery died

What is a bit less clear to me is whether this sounds sufficiently different to the Top Boost channel on its own. Probably not

Was the battery full before as it would sound very different with a low battery.

Yorkie · April 2023

Cookiemonster said:

Yorkie said:

Ok. Tested again with the commercial cables and there does seem to be a tad more signal. Brought the AC15 to the edge of breakup, then plugged the treble booster and played for half an hour until the battery died

What is a bit less clear to me is whether this sounds sufficiently different to the Top Boost channel on its own. Probably not

Was the battery full before as it would sound very different with a low battery.

Nah, I have been testing circuits on that little brick for like a month. I don’t think the treble booster has ever seen a full battery

Yorkie · April 2023

Why are there so many more PNP germaniums than NPN?

Is there a good recipe to ‘reverse’ the circuit for PNP transistors?

Cheers folks,
Jon

Yorkie · April 2023

Ok, rookie mistake: I didn't know the left and right sections of the power rails were not interconnected. I've put a jumper lead between both and problem solved. This has also solved a nearly identical issue I had with the fuzz circuit I was working on. I've tested both and they sound glorious. The fuzz in particular is hilarious. I'll keep tweaking them until happy, but these are clearly going in a Hammond case.

Cookiemonster · April 2023

Yorkie said:

Ok, rookie mistake: I didn't know the left and right sections of the power rails were not interconnected. I've put a jumper lead between both and problem solved. This has also solved a nearly identical issue I had with the fuzz circuit I was working on. I've tested both and they sound glorious. The fuzz in particular is hilarious. I'll keep tweaking them until happy, but these are clearly going in a Hammond case.

Yes that’s right you need to jumper power and ground

Cookiemonster · April 2023

For PNP you swap the electrolytics that’s all. Just the opposite way round.

There is more PNP as they are mostly lower leakage and better (kind of) than the NPN equivalent

you want between 60 to a 100hfe I would say with low leakage but with a bit of bias on a trimmer you can tweak to taste

but you can not Daisy chain so you could make a voltage changer on vero. I did this the other day

or just run on battery

Yorkie · April 2023

Cookiemonster said:

but you can not Daisy chain so you could make a voltage changer on vero. I did this the other day

I’m listening

Cookiemonster · April 2023

I used this one with a tone bender

https://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/05/negative-voltage-inverter.html?m=1

Yorkie · May 2023

I’ve seen that many Ge transistors have a min hfe spec on their datasheet. Do the transistors need to be tested individually to make sure what the hfe is, or is the min hfe a ballpark figure?

I’ve found OC29, AC126, AC127, ACY20… have you guys used any of those models?

I’ve also found some with a hole in them, presumably for attaching a heatsink. Are those Ok for pedals?

Thanks,
Jon

Cookiemonster · May 2023

Yorkie said:

I’ve seen that many Ge transistors have a min hfe spec on their datasheet. Do the transistors need to be tested individually to make sure what the hfe is, or is the min hfe a ballpark figure?

I’ve found OC29, AC126, AC127, ACY20… have you guys used any of those models?

I’ve also found some with a hole in them, presumably for attaching a heatsink. Are those Ok for pedals?

Thanks,
Jon

You can get a cheap tester but yes the HFE will vary from one transistor to the next as does the leakage. The original had a oc44 so might be worth a look for one of those.

you need to bias these and your looking for around 7v I believe instead of the 4.5. But others may say different.

I found that anything from 60 to a 100 HFE sounded good.

I haven’t tried a OC29 but online you should be able to find out an idea of the hfe

The AC126 would be good I think

Gapco sell some germanium transistors I think

Cookiemonster · May 2023

For a cheap tester the tc1 is good and is on eBay and Amazon usually

Cookiemonster · May 2023

I might be able to send a couple of germs if you struggle to find some. I tend to buy the ones from the Ukraine btw

Yorkie · May 2023

Cookiemonster said:

You can get a cheap tester but yes the HFE will vary from one transistor to the next as does the leakage. The original had a oc44 so might be worth a look for one of those.

My multimeter has a 'hfe' mode, and sockets for PNP and NPN. I will have a go at testing the silicon ones I've got. Who knows, I may end up changing the transistor I've got on the breadboard

Yorkie · May 2023

Cookiemonster said:

I might be able to send a couple of germs if you struggle to find some. I tend to buy the ones from the Ukraine btw

Thanks for your kind offer. I'm interested in the Ukrainian ones: how long did it take to receive them? Did you have to pay import taxes and all that? I saw the image on one of the listings, mentioning 40-day delivery times and got scared away...

Cookiemonster · May 2023

Yorkie said:

Cookiemonster said:

I might be able to send a couple of germs if you struggle to find some. I tend to buy the ones from the Ukraine btw

Thanks for your kind offer. I'm interested in the Ukrainian ones: how long did it take to receive them? Did you have to pay import taxes and all that? I saw the image on one of the listings, mentioning 40-day delivery times and got scared away...

I don’t remember exactly how long, but it was relatively quick. Price was good. No extra charges at all.

Yorkie · May 2023

Cookiemonster said:

Yorkie said:

Cookiemonster said:

I might be able to send a couple of germs if you struggle to find some. I tend to buy the ones from the Ukraine btw

Thanks for your kind offer. I'm interested in the Ukrainian ones: how long did it take to receive them? Did you have to pay import taxes and all that? I saw the image on one of the listings, mentioning 40-day delivery times and got scared away...

I don’t remember exactly how long, but it was relatively quick. Price was good. No extra charges at all.

Sounds great. Which ones have you got? I can’t find anything with a min hfe > 50.

Cookiemonster · May 2023

Yorkie said:

Cookiemonster said:

Yorkie said:

Cookiemonster said:

I might be able to send a couple of germs if you struggle to find some. I tend to buy the ones from the Ukraine btw

Thanks for your kind offer. I'm interested in the Ukrainian ones: how long did it take to receive them? Did you have to pay import taxes and all that? I saw the image on one of the listings, mentioning 40-day delivery times and got scared away...

I don’t remember exactly how long, but it was relatively quick. Price was good. No extra charges at all.

Sounds great. Which ones have you got? I can’t find anything with a min hfe > 50.

I think someone recommended the GT308v HFE and Leakage vary a bit. But they have been pretty good. Best advice I can give is to dig around on the pedal forums. Usually there will be some recommendations

GT108V (ГТ108В) - hfe 60-130
GT108G (ГТ108Г) - hfe 110-250
GT109E (ГТ109Е) - hfe 50-100
GT109G (ГТ109Г) - hfe 50-100
GT109V (ГТ109В) - hfe 50-100
GT115V (ГТ115В) - hfe 60-150
GT115G (ГТ115Г) - hfe 60-150
GT124B (ГТ124Б) - hfe 71-162
GT124V (ГТ124В) - hfe 120-200
GT308B (ГТ308Б) - hfe 50-120
GT308V (ГТ308В) - hfe 80-150
GT308G (ГТ308Г) - hfe 90-200
GT309B (ГТ309Б) - hfe 60-180
GT310G (ГТ310Г) - hfe 60-120
GT310E (ГТ310E) - hfe 60-120
GT311D (ГТ311Д) - hfe 60-180
GT311i (ГТ311И) - hfe 100-300
GT311k (ГТ311K) - hfe 60-180
GT311L (ГТ311л) - hfe 150-300
GT402B (ГТ402Б) - hfe 60-150
GT402G (ГТ402Г) - hfe 60-150
GT402E (ГТ402E) - hfe 60-150
GT402i (ГТ402И) - hfe 60-150
GT403B (ГТ402Б) - hfe 50-150
GT403G (ГТ402Г) - hfe 50-150
GT403D (ГТ402Д) - hfe 50-150
GT404B (ГТ404Б) - hfe 60-150
GT404G (ГТ404Г) - hfe 60-150
GT404E (ГТ404Е) - hfe 60-150

I think the Bonamassa is MP38V.

But you can find people speak about the equivalents to ac128 for example

roberty · May 2023

Yorkie said:

Why are there so many more PNP germaniums than NPN?

Is there a good recipe to ‘reverse’ the circuit for PNP transistors?

Cheers folks,
Jon

You can use one of these to invert voltage and daisy chain PNP with NPN

https://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/product/pumpdb

You have to be careful with the IC because cheap/fake ones will be noisy

Cookiemonster · May 2023

roberty said:

Yorkie said:

Why are there so many more PNP germaniums than NPN?

Is there a good recipe to ‘reverse’ the circuit for PNP transistors?

Cheers folks,
Jon

You can use one of these to invert voltage and daisy chain PNP with NPN

https://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/product/pumpdb

You have to be careful with the IC because cheap/fake ones will be noisy

That looks good I tend to make the really cheap vero one. It’s only a few parts

Yorkie · May 2023

Update:

I have been tweaking the fuzz and treble booster circuits.

Also, I have sold many of my commercial pedals to raise cash and space for what’s coming.

I have bought some more pots and pedal hardware, and so will be making some of those circuits permanent soon. Got a few ACY19 germs off eBay (haven’t received them yet) and I have invested a bit on op amps and the voltage converter IC that was on the vero layout @Cookiemonster had posted.

I have finally managed to read hfe off my multimeter (the socket does not hold the trannies very securely). So I don’t think I shall be buying another tester for now.

The one thing I’m still fearful of is the lack of space in 1590b cases for home made (eg on perfboard) circuits. Will need to get creative.

Jon

Cookiemonster · May 2023

Yorkie said:

Update:

I have been tweaking the fuzz and treble booster circuits.

Also, I have sold many of my commercial pedals to raise cash and space for what’s coming.

I have bought some more pots and pedal hardware, and so will be making some of those circuits permanent soon. Got a few ACY19 germs off eBay (haven’t received them yet) and I have invested a bit on op amps and the voltage converter IC that was on the vero layout @Cookiemonster had posted.

I have finally managed to read hfe off my multimeter (the socket does not hold the trannies very securely). So I don’t think I shall be buying another tester for now.

The one thing I’m still fearful of is the lack of space in 1590b cases for home made (eg on perfboard) circuits. Will need to get creative.

Jon

125b gives you more space and top mounted jacks as an option !!

By the way a multimeter doesn’t measure the Germaniums well. So bare that in mind. But you can just try a few out and see how you get on.

Cookiemonster · May 2023

Yorkie said:

Update:

I have been tweaking the fuzz and treble booster circuits.

Also, I have sold many of my commercial pedals to raise cash and space for what’s coming.

I have bought some more pots and pedal hardware, and so will be making some of those circuits permanent soon. Got a few ACY19 germs off eBay (haven’t received them yet) and I have invested a bit on op amps and the voltage converter IC that was on the vero layout @Cookiemonster had posted.

I have finally managed to read hfe off my multimeter (the socket does not hold the trannies very securely). So I don’t think I shall be buying another tester for now.

The one thing I’m still fearful of is the lack of space in 1590b cases for home made (eg on perfboard) circuits. Will need to get creative.

Jon

Here is one for you though. If you use a a similar switch to the one for your footswitch. You can put a germ one side and silicon the other. Then switch between them !!!

Yorkie · May 2023

Cookiemonster said:
125b gives you more space and top mounted jacks as an option !!

Thanks, but I have made a decision to go with 1590b as standard. I love how the enclosures look and, crucially, I originally designed my home made board with them in mind, and with side connections too.

Yorkie · May 2023

Cookiemonster said:

Yorkie said:

Update:

I have been tweaking the fuzz and treble booster circuits.

Also, I have sold many of my commercial pedals to raise cash and space for what’s coming.

I have bought some more pots and pedal hardware, and so will be making some of those circuits permanent soon. Got a few ACY19 germs off eBay (haven’t received them yet) and I have invested a bit on op amps and the voltage converter IC that was on the vero layout @Cookiemonster had posted.

I have finally managed to read hfe off my multimeter (the socket does not hold the trannies very securely). So I don’t think I shall be buying another tester for now.

The one thing I’m still fearful of is the lack of space in 1590b cases for home made (eg on perfboard) circuits. Will need to get creative.

Jon

Here is one for you though. If you use a a similar switch to the one for your footswitch. You can put a germ one side and silicon the other. Then switch between them !!!

I think I will compare Ge and Si while the circuit is still on the breadboard and build whichever sounds best to my ears. I’m incredibly curious about the whole Ge vs Si debate

Neilybob · May 2023

Watched this today which I thought was pretty interesting.

https://youtu.be/KjpbvysR7Qk

Cookiemonster · May 2023

Yorkie said:

Cookiemonster said:

Yorkie said:

Update:

I have been tweaking the fuzz and treble booster circuits.

Also, I have sold many of my commercial pedals to raise cash and space for what’s coming.

I have bought some more pots and pedal hardware, and so will be making some of those circuits permanent soon. Got a few ACY19 germs off eBay (haven’t received them yet) and I have invested a bit on op amps and the voltage converter IC that was on the vero layout @Cookiemonster had posted.

I have finally managed to read hfe off my multimeter (the socket does not hold the trannies very securely). So I don’t think I shall be buying another tester for now.

The one thing I’m still fearful of is the lack of space in 1590b cases for home made (eg on perfboard) circuits. Will need to get creative.

Jon

Here is one for you though. If you use a a similar switch to the one for your footswitch. You can put a germ one side and silicon the other. Then switch between them !!!

I think I will compare Ge and Si while the circuit is still on the breadboard and build whichever sounds best to my ears. I’m incredibly curious about the whole Ge vs Si debate

Just might need to bias slightly different between the two. For the suggestion I said about a foot switch you would but the silicon on three pins on the right and the germ on the three pins on the left and the three middle pins go to where you normally put the transistor, but connected by wires. It will pop as you switch so turn the amp down, but it’s a lot of fun

Yorkie · May 2023

The germs are here. They. Are. Huge. Like four times bigger than the Si trannies.

I’ve also got the voltage converters and a few popular op amps from the same seller.

I managed to work on an enclosure for the treble booster during the weekend. It became clear that I need 10 and 12mm drill bits. I am not going through all this filing ever again

Now I am considering options for labelling the controls. My Dymo died decades ago, so that’s unfortunately not an option.

Yorkie · June 2023

Hello again everyone.

Sorry for the lack of updates. I realise it's been two months since I pitched this idea here, so here is the latest on my pedal building adventure.

I have a couple of treble boosters on breadboards – I got a great deal for 10 military-grade breadboards on eBay and have been experimenting with many circuits. The germaniums are still waiting in the box, because I got very excited with the idea of modifying one of the silicon designs to add some sort of EQ. After spending weeks on the drawing board, I had one of those epiphanies and came up with a circuit that sounded absolutely killer, starting from a fuzz circuit from the book that got me started on this.

But it wouldn't fit into a 1590B.

So, I simplified it a bit, went from 5 knobs to a manageable 3, and ended up with something that very much resembles the Hot Snake circuit @roberty had posted here ages ago

It's got a couple of component changes, but the overall idea is, to my amazement, pretty much the same.

I then decided what board to use (bitsbox 3x7 cm) and took a picture of it so I could draw the components on a tablet. I made three revisions of the layout before being somewhat satisfied that I wouldn't have to fly leads from one side to the other. Most connections were to be simply done by joining the legs. I went for a horizontal design because I have a Morley wah/volume mini that leaves a space at the top of my board and I used to have a Box of Rock in that spot until I retired it when I got my Marshall.

So, here's the completed build:

Then I spent an awful lot of time deciding how to label/decorate the enclosure. I tried using my 'made in Sheffield' metal punches, but ended up destroying two cases. I bought a few adhesive vinyl sheets to print on, but kept postponing it because I wanted to print a few designs on one page and I only had the one! And at some point I just wanted to keep building stuff and the vinyl anxiety was holding me back.

So, I ended up making the labels with...

NOT A DYMO!

It's a Penco ('Pen Company') Tape Writer I got in Japan. What can I say? It's got personality.

I shall keep experimenting with designs, and at some point I think I will build this same circuit with a germanium transistor – if I can fit the huge can inside the case, that is.

Jon

Yorkie · June 2023

Been putting the circuit through its paces today, and I’ve got to say, it’s wild. By far the best boost I’ve ever tried. Sounds glorious through both the DSL40 and the AC15 (normal channel). With the filter on the treble boost side (fully cw) I can get Rangemaster type sounds, and fully ccw I get a saturated growl worth putting into a standalone always-on box.

Yorkie · June 2023

One thing I've noticed with the Rangemaster-style circuits I've built (the boxed one included) is that they all seem to make a loud pop when you activate them. I've tried adding a 1M pull-down resistor after the output capacitor, but that was not the game-changer I was expecting it to be. Do you guys also get that pop when activating your treble boosters?

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Treble booster vs Boost with 3-knob EQ

Comments