Can Ed Sheeran really play?

BillDL · February 2023

Strummer63 said:

Ofcourse he can play. Plenty of live video showing the fact.

I'm curious as to why the question was asked though.

The question was asked because of the published results of a poll by a Dutch guitar magazine that asked people to vote on "best acoustic guitar player".

Bidley · February 2023

darthed1981 said:

It sucks for the industry if they were a flop because it means even the single biggest guitar wielding pop star in the world (except possibly Harry Styles, who plays on stage sometimes) can't sell guitars!

I don't see why - anyone in the market for an acoustic costing thousand(s) likely isn't inspired by Ed Sheeran.

I do find it funny that these threads always descend into people fervently suggesting that popularity/success/money means whoever is beyond criticism.

Kilgore · February 2023

idiotwindow said:

Tannin said:

darthed1981 said:

contribution to the guitar world (he has a best selling sig line)

Fact check: they were a flop. They might do OK where you are (I wouldn't know) but they failed comprehensively in Australia and were poorly received in America.

I have no idea whether the Sheeran (Lowden) guitars have been a commercial flop or not (and I'm not sure you can extrapolate much from an unsold guitar in your local shop) but I agree that they don't seem to have set the guitar world on fire in a way that might have been hoped at the outset. However, I believe Sheeran's previous Martin signature guitars (actual "artist signature" guitars in the modern sense rather than the commercial cross branding efforts of Sheeran and Lowden) did sell pretty well.

I've no idea if the the Sheeran Lowden models sell these days. The launch was a bit of a disaster, delays in getting stock to retailers, people were waiting months for their orders.

When they did get to customers, many of the initial reviews were lukewarm at best, with tales of terrible QC issues. I think at one point production was suspended to iron out the problems.

It's a small guitar with a 24" scale. Price wise the cheaper models are going up against Taylor's GS Mini range.

darthed1981 · February 2023

Bidley said:

darthed1981 said:

It sucks for the industry if they were a flop because it means even the single biggest guitar wielding pop star in the world (except possibly Harry Styles, who plays on stage sometimes) can't sell guitars!

I don't see why - anyone in the market for an acoustic costing thousand(s) likely isn't inspired by Ed Sheeran.

I do find it funny that these threads always descend into people fervently suggesting that popularity/success/money means whoever is beyond criticism.

No offense but that sounds so snobby... why wouldn't someone who likes Sheeran be in the market for an acoustic costing thousands? Have you seen how much his gig tickets go for on secondary sites?

The Lowden Sheeran guitars for for about £450-£850 or so - so marketed very much at people wanting a good solid acoustic guitar, not people wanting guitars costing thousands, so I'm not sure where that comes from anyhow. Very many people have picked up guitar due to Ed Sheeran, Coldplay, Muse, Foo Fighters and other hugely popular acts, and I think that's a great thing, clearly YMMV.

I personally didn't say the chap was above criticism. I think he has done some great pop songs and any musician pissing on another who has done well always seems like sour grapes to me.

You aren't obliged to like him, nobody is, but disliking him and liking him are just personal tastes, there isn't any objective standard of quality we would all agree on.

Tannin · February 2023

Not one unsold guitar, @darthed1981 - there is one left now after 3 years sitting gathering dust. But shops all over the country (generally one in each major centre) bought in a range of them and advertised them extensively. Hardly anybody bought them. Eventually retailers cut the prices to get rid of them. I haven't seen anyone restock them. I'm not saying that not one single retailer has reordered Sheeran since the launch, but I certainly haven't noticed anyone stocking them anymore. The brand is dead.

The reason is simple enough. They were perfectly decent little guitars (well the one I played was, I rather liked it) but they are just that - little. Laminated back and sides, short scale, small body like a Baby Taylor - but they were pitched in the $2000 range. A Baby Taylor is $800. A Mini Martin is $1000, a Mini Taylor $1200. Taylor 1 and 2 series guitars (still laminated but full-size instruments), $1600. A Mini Maton - small but all solid timbers and a step up in quality from any of those mentioned so far - is $1500. For the same size, a Sheeran was way too much money. You can't make a $1000 guitar and expect to sell it for $2000.

(OK Lowden sell $5000 guitars for $10,000 happily enough, but that's different. Buyers in that territory don't really care too much what the price is and will pay the asking price for whatever they take a fancy to. The high end market doesn't work like the mainstream market.)

Looking at the other side of the coin, for the same money the Sheerans were not nearly enough guitar. You could buy a full-size Taylor or Maton or Cole Clark or a made-in-Japan Takamine, no compromises, all solid woods, and superior instruments in every way for the same price. (There are always the cheapo things out of China too, but ever maker has to compete with those.)

Like all industries (OK, most), the guitar industry is competitive. You have to make a product that can match it with the things your competitors are making. The Sheerans didn't measure up.

PS: the music industry is competitive too: Ed Sheeran himself very obviously does measure up. He outsells just about everyone and has done for years. Has to be doing something right.

darthed1981 · February 2023

Tannin said:

Not one unsold guitar, @darthed1981 - there is one left now after 3 years sitting gathering dust. But shops all over the country (generally one in each major centre) bought in a range of them and advertised them extensively. ...

Wasn't me who mentioned one unsold guitar, CBA to check who it was, but not me.

I just asked where your figures were from, and you seem to have answered based on what you've seen in shops, i.e. supposition.

I'd at least do a P&E and have a link to an article on a Russian military site or something...

Tannin · February 2023

Sorry mate, that was @idiotwindow - though you do seem to be fellow travellers with much the same point.

But supposition - not in the least. The Interwebby thing makes it trivially easy to see who has what in stock and I used to visit all the significant retailers regularly, just to see if anything interesting had popped up. (Sad but true.) So I had an excellent idea of who had what. (But only in the areas of interest to me, that is - good quality acoustics.)

These days, I do less of that. I am limited to a reasonable fairly unreasonable number of guitars in this small house and (mostly) not buying factory-made ones anymore. So I've (mostly) stopped haunting the retailer websites.

Bidley · February 2023

darthed1981 said:

Bidley said:

darthed1981 said:

It sucks for the industry if they were a flop because it means even the single biggest guitar wielding pop star in the world (except possibly Harry Styles, who plays on stage sometimes) can't sell guitars!

I don't see why - anyone in the market for an acoustic costing thousand(s) likely isn't inspired by Ed Sheeran.

I do find it funny that these threads always descend into people fervently suggesting that popularity/success/money means whoever is beyond criticism.

No offense but that sounds so snobby... why wouldn't someone who likes Sheeran be in the market for an acoustic costing thousands? Have you seen how much his gig tickets go for on secondary sites?

The Lowden Sheeran guitars for for about £450-£850 or so - so marketed very much at people wanting a good solid acoustic guitar, not people wanting guitars costing thousands, so I'm not sure where that comes from anyhow. Very many people have picked up guitar due to Ed Sheeran, Coldplay, Muse, Foo Fighters and other hugely popular acts, and I think that's a great thing, clearly YMMV.

I personally didn't say the chap was above criticism. I think he has done some great pop songs and any musician pissing on another who has done well always seems like sour grapes to me.

You aren't obliged to like him, nobody is, but disliking him and liking him are just personal tastes, there isn't any objective standard of quality we would all agree on.

I was merely pointing out that Ed Sheeran not being able to sell guitars doesn't mean much for the guitar industry. Not sure how Coldplay, Muse, Foo Fighters etc come into it.

I agree entirely with your last paragraph, haven't said anything different. Sheeran is doing well enough that he doesn't need to be defended from a few posts on a guitar forum that he'll never see. But appealing to the most amount of people and being nauseatingly ubiquitous doesn't mean he's somehow Jesus of the guitar.

bugileman · February 2023

I give him credit for standing up in front of thousands of people and playing his music to entertain people..... in this day and age their aren't many options in the charts (not that I listen to much chart stuff) of anyone remotely playing a guitar......so at least he is in some way playing a real instrument. Unlike 99% of mainstream artists now.

viz · February 2023

bertie said:

Sporky said:

We should do a list of the best lists.

The Titanic

Surely:

guitarjack66 · February 2023

Is he any good? Usually equates to 'Do you like him/her?'' but how does the artist stand up technically and from a longevity point of view should be more important,in my view. Mr Sheeran is obviously very talented but my opinion tends to hinge more on longevity,it's just how I form an opinion while others may differ. I hate the term 'legend' being applied to people in the media in all forms of arts and entertainment as I feel it takes decades of success to earn it,in this business at least. Before anybody says I'm disregarding Sheeran,I am not at all,I just feel a decade or so is not enough to be as highly regarded as he has been put in this poll. Of course it is highly subjective and we can agree to disagree without getting a cob on over it,there are far more important things to worry and fight over.

cm01 · February 2023

LastMantra said:

cm01 said:

My wife - who is a huge music fan of lot of different genres - saw him with my 10 year old last night and they were blown away by him.

It was a huge stadium gig in Brisbane, she said his performance and stage presence were amazing and would go and see him again tonight if she could!

I'm now kinda slightly intrigued as to what a show like that would be like.

Does he have a band, or put on some kind of show.

@LastMantra ;
This is a pretty good review of the show they went to:

https://amp.theguardian.com/music/2023/feb/20/fireworks-a-proposal-and-earnest-ballads-the-night-i-became-an-ed-sheeran-convert

thomasross20 · February 2023

Yes. He's no TE, but he can play. Getting up there for hours and singing, too? I couldn't do that right now. Singing + playing is hard... and imo after 20++ years of playing now, singing + playing a great song is where the magic is at. Not always my cup of tea but yeah, kudos.

thomasross20 · February 2023

Shivers is a great song imo.
Just been listening to him on YouTube and actually some decent stuff

dazzajl · February 2023

ICBM said:

He plays solo to tens of thousands of people using only an acoustic guitar and a looper, so yes he can certainly play.

I'm not really a fan and I probably wouldn't rate him as highly as no.2 in the world as a guitarist - whatever that means - but he is a very competent musician.

John Williams is a *much* better guitarist technically than any pop/rock/folk/country/or even jazz player though.

Absolutely all of this. Anyone who can step on stage at Wembley Stadium and thrill 80,000 people
odd with an acoustic guitar and no band deserves every accolade that can be thrown at him.

I’m yet to really like an of his tunes but to see someone as likeable and humble as he is go from busker to arguably the most successful artist worldwide right now, makes me very happy.

Smellyfingers · February 2023

Minus-ing our tastes, I think he uses the acoustic to set the rhythm on stage, rather than finesse the finer points of melody. Certainly from the way he keeps looking at the fretboard, he maybe views the guitar as a tool, like say, a wrench rather than a be all and end all, emotional extension.

I do know that in his early days as an aspiring songwriter, he learnt from a kind and generous mentor, of the wisdom of needing to put the grind in to learn third party complex songs on the acoustic in obsessive detail. That’s before he could acquire the skill to pen his own work. Because it maybe silly to create pieces in the dark without any references.

RocknRollDave · February 2023

Malcolm Young - Plays mostly cowboy chords, doesn’t stray from rhythm playing. Barks backing vocals.
Guitarists: “Genius! Plays for the song. Not as easy as it looks! If it’s so easy, how come no-one else plays the songs quite right?!”

Sheeran - plays rhythm, finger picks, loops, sings, harmonises with himself.
Guitarists: “He just strums a few chords! He’s a busker who got lucky!”

Kilgore · February 2023

RocknRollDave said:

Malcolm Young - Plays mostly cowboy chords, doesn’t stray from rhythm playing. Barks backing vocals.
Guitarists: “Genius! Plays for the song. Not as easy as it looks! If it’s so easy, how come no-one else plays the songs quite right?!”

Sheeran - plays rhythm, finger picks, loops, sings, harmonises with himself.
Guitarists: “He just strums a few chords! He's a busker who got lucky!"

I've always thought the same about Bob Dylan.

DuploLicks · February 2023

darthed1981 said:

Bidley said:

darthed1981 said:

It sucks for the industry if they were a flop because it means even the single biggest guitar wielding pop star in the world (except possibly Harry Styles, who plays on stage sometimes) can't sell guitars!

I don't see why - anyone in the market for an acoustic costing thousand(s) likely isn't inspired by Ed Sheeran.

No offense but that sounds so snobby... why wouldn't someone who likes Sheeran be in the market for an acoustic costing thousands? Have you seen how much his gig tickets go for on secondary sites?

The Lowden Sheeran guitars for for about £450-£850 or so - so marketed very much at people wanting a good solid acoustic guitar, not people wanting guitars costing thousands, so I'm not sure where that comes from anyhow. Very many people have picked up guitar due to Ed Sheeran, Coldplay, Muse, Foo Fighters and other hugely popular acts, and I think that's a great thing, clearly YMMV.

I think the basic problem is cost vs market. Ed needed Sheeran by Harley Benton, not Lowden. If you’re an Ed fan & inspired to pick up a guitar, particularly with his name on it then who’s paying? Given the demographic I’m going to say parents so how many of them will shell out £000s for what might be a flash in the pan? (Child in not playing musical instrument shocker)

CharlieShaw · March 2023

I personally don’t like Tommy Emmanuel. I prefer songwriters, not show offy guitarists. Not that I like Ed Sheeran either!

Shadow · March 2023

CharlieShaw said:

I personally don’t like Tommy Emmanuel. I prefer songwriters, not show offy guitarists. Not that I like Ed Sheeran either!

Tommy Emmanuel has written quite a lot of songs.

roberty · March 2023

Kilgore said:

RocknRollDave said:

Malcolm Young - Plays mostly cowboy chords, doesn’t stray from rhythm playing. Barks backing vocals.
Guitarists: “Genius! Plays for the song. Not as easy as it looks! If it’s so easy, how come no-one else plays the songs quite right?!”

Sheeran - plays rhythm, finger picks, loops, sings, harmonises with himself.
Guitarists: “He just strums a few chords! He's a busker who got lucky!"

I've always thought the same about Bob Dylan.

People go after Kurt Cobain's guitar playing which has always baffled me. But yeah Bob seems to get a pass. I suppose he is redeemed through his expert work on the harmonica

guitarjack66 · March 2023

roberty said:

Kilgore said:

RocknRollDave said:

Malcolm Young - Plays mostly cowboy chords, doesn’t stray from rhythm playing. Barks backing vocals.
Guitarists: “Genius! Plays for the song. Not as easy as it looks! If it’s so easy, how come no-one else plays the songs quite right?!”

Sheeran - plays rhythm, finger picks, loops, sings, harmonises with himself.
Guitarists: “He just strums a few chords! He's a busker who got lucky!"

I've always thought the same about Bob Dylan.

People go after Kurt Cobain's guitar playing which has always baffled me. But yeah Bob seems to get a pass. I suppose he is redeemed through his expert work on the harmonica

Bob Dylan's playing and writing is still appealing to many millions 60 years after he began. If Ed Sheeran still is 60 years after he began the he'll rightfully be considered a peer of Dylan's.

RocknRollDave · March 2023

guitarjack66 said:

roberty said:

Kilgore said:

RocknRollDave said:

Malcolm Young - Plays mostly cowboy chords, doesn’t stray from rhythm playing. Barks backing vocals.
Guitarists: “Genius! Plays for the song. Not as easy as it looks! If it’s so easy, how come no-one else plays the songs quite right?!”

Sheeran - plays rhythm, finger picks, loops, sings, harmonises with himself.
Guitarists: “He just strums a few chords! He's a busker who got lucky!"

I've always thought the same about Bob Dylan.

People go after Kurt Cobain's guitar playing which has always baffled me. But yeah Bob seems to get a pass. I suppose he is redeemed through his expert work on the harmonica

Bob Dylan's playing and writing is still appealing to many millions 60 years after he began. If Ed Sheeran still is 60 years after he began the he'll rightfully be considered a peer of Dylan's.

Why would he want to be?

Danny1969 · March 2023

Music aside, I think Sheeran should be brought to justice for popularising the looper pedal.

lustycourtier · March 2023

Gulliver said:

I don't know anyone else who has had the same cultural impact as Ed - how many acoustic guitars have been sold in the last 5-10 years off the back of his career?

Maybe one of those will become the next Tommy Emmanuel / James Taylor / Andy McKee.

A lot less than Oasis will of, and you can play their songs on a guitar, not needing a looper and a DJ

Soupman · March 2023

@lustcourtier said:
A lot less than Oasis will of, and you can play their songs on a guitar

Yes but why would you want to?

lustycourtier · March 2023

Soupman said:

@lustcourtier said:
A lot less than Oasis will of, and you can play their songs on a guitar
Yes but why would you want to?

Well being in a tribute has paid my mortgage for a long time, so thats why Id want too...

Soupman · March 2023

@lustycourtier , good reason!

Pjon · March 2023

roberty said:

Kilgore said:

RocknRollDave said:

Malcolm Young - Plays mostly cowboy chords, doesn’t stray from rhythm playing. Barks backing vocals.
Guitarists: “Genius! Plays for the song. Not as easy as it looks! If it’s so easy, how come no-one else plays the songs quite right?!”

Sheeran - plays rhythm, finger picks, loops, sings, harmonises with himself.
Guitarists: “He just strums a few chords! He's a busker who got lucky!"

I've always thought the same about Bob Dylan.

People go after Kurt Cobain's guitar playing which has always baffled me. But yeah Bob seems to get a pass. I suppose he is redeemed through his expert work on the harmonica

I've never heard any harmonica tune sound any different to any other harmonica tune. Is it possible to absolutely tone deaf to one particular instrument?

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Can Ed Sheeran really play?

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