Controversial viewpoint...live music is becoming dull

PolarityMan · July 2022

Considering the readership here I can't help but wonder how many of us are just trying to justify a lack of professionalism in our own sets.

CaseOfAce · July 2022

BlueStrat said:

Bands now are of a different level of professionalism and ability than minstrels of Ye Olde Worlde
All of the gigs I’ve been to recently have been fkn brilliant, especially Wolf Alice, fantastic live experience.
Everything is better now, equipment, sound systems, actual professionals putting a real show on

Imagine how much better the Stones would have been in '69 if they'd been more professional with greater ability and put a real show on ?!!

I know every generation throws a hero up the pop charts as Paul Simon once said... and I can tell you're being tongue in cheek ( I hope) but we're unlikely to see the like of Ye Olde World minstrels in our times again.

Wings... the band the Beatles could have been as Partridge once said...LOL

roundthebend · July 2022

monquixote said:

I think there are a few important factors at play:

1. Festivals are very well organised now and if you run over you get a song cut from your set so you really have to think if you want to sacrifice a song for your rambling anecdote or drum solo.

2. Touring is how bands make money now so shows are expensive and people expect them to be tight and professional entertainment They also tour a lot and so are naturally very slick.

3. Any decent sized band probably has video, light and pyros which probably means they are running do a programmed schedule which they need to stick to

I recommend watching Haim at Glasto. I thought they looked like they were having a blast and putting on a great show although everything they were doing was clearly very rehearsed.

HAIM at Glasto is a funny suggestion. We saw them at Rock Werchter and it was pretty much the same show. Even the bit about the one night stand meeting at 3am...

However, to give them their dues I quite enjoyed the musical playing side of what they did. Danielle, I think that's the lead guitar/vocalist, has a very raw guitar tone and style. She's a fantastic drummer too.

BlueStrat · July 2022

CaseOfAce said:
Imagine how much better the Stones would have been in '69 if they'd been more professional with greater ability and put a real show on ?!!

I know every generation throws a hero up the pop charts as Paul Simon once said... and I can tell you're being tongue in cheek ( I hope) but we're unlikely to see the like of Ye Olde World minstrels in our times again.

Wings... the band the Beatles could have been as Partridge once said...LOL

Bonus lol for a cracking Alan Partridge quote!

“Sunday Bloody Sunday.’ What a great song. It encapsulates the frustration of a Sunday, doesn’t it? You wake up in the morning, you’ve got to read all the Sunday papers, the kids are running around, you’ve got to mow the lawn, wash the car, and you think ‘Sunday, bloody Sunday!’”
Love that one too

Very much tongue in cheek

but I do think that putting on a live show is a different proposition now, even smallish gigs have video of some kind, and the supporting engineers etc are total pros.

Not to criticise the Stones in ‘69 - just imagine them supporting Wings!

swiller · July 2022

I agree with sentiments of dullness. But there are jewels in the crown. Its why i love wetleg. Inverse shredders, not been playing long. Making great noise with basic skills. Love the kate bush/bjork presentation and she can really sing like an angel. Has DeadKens/Sex pistols/pixies energy about it. Bill hicks would love these.
and look at the crowd in paris (UK band).

RocknRollDave · July 2022

This is why people need to see the Marcus King Band, instead of the drivel they’re watching at festivals.

DavidR · July 2022

Possibly most concerts have always been slightly dull but we're comparing them with our stand out concerts from the past???

We're living next to Saffron Walden Common "Eight Day Weekend " extravaganza at present and there's music every night finishing at 11pm. We live so near we can hear most of it and it's an interesting experience. Listening to the music without actually being there is a bit weird and I know what OP means. It does sound a little formulaic, the silly and sometimes puerile attempts to bond with the audience, the fact that it all seems overloud. But the these aren't top bands, just musicians trying to make an honest crust. And good luck to them. Everyone's having fun and the music is enhancing life as all musuc does in some way or another.

The only alternative to drab music is no music!!

Going to see Elbow at Audley End nearby later in the summer which will be on a different level and tbh I'm just looking forward to sitting out on a summers evening with some of the younger family members and my Mrs, drinking some wine and having fun. If the music rattles my cage that will be an added extra. Not exactly like the Cromer Pavilion on a rainy Saturday night but then what is?

And don't complain too much. I once had to leave a French disco during an exchange/twinning weekend because the music was so unremittingly bad. I went for a walk until I could no longer hear it and sat under a tree for half an hour until I thought my absence might be noticed. I can still hear The Birdie Song now just thinking about it.

So say what you like about UK music but be grateful, very grateful, that its not Europop!

:-)

TheBigDipper · July 2022

Danny1969 said:

<big snip of good post, sorry>

I actually set up our tribute band like this originally, but there was a monitor recall failure at the first gig we tried it at. No one had the click in their ears so I killed the mac playing the session and we just played completely live and have ever since. We do use extra samples triggered via an SPD but there's no playing to track or using any fake keys or vocals. It's all live and better for it IMHO.

This. I do not want to see bands playing to tracks. I can hear the tracks at home if I want to. I want to see (and hear) people playing live and walking the tightrope. I want the music to flow and be a unique experience on that night in that space.

I don't want to see my favourite artists recreating my favourite record perfectly by accompanying their own recordings. I want to see the spark of musicality that let them create that record in the first place. Which doesn't mean noodling and jamming without regard for the audience - just performing the material with the people that are in front of me playing live and singing. Unless, of course, the band positions itself as an improvising band and sets our expectations accordingly.

TheMarlin · July 2022

You should go see Ohsees live. Phenomenal live band, two drummers, great guitar playing, fabulous energy. Best live band I’ve seen in a while.

BlueStrat · July 2022

DavidR said:

So say what you like about UK music but be grateful, very grateful, that its not Europop!

:-)

You think that's bad - recently went to Cyprus which seems to be a Russian colony now - full of fat necked mobsters and their silicone enhanced women.

They had a couple of places playing the most bizarre mix of euroshite and Russian patriotic marching type music.

Never heard the like of it before, simultaneously terrible and surreal.

Be thankful you live n the UK / USA!

BillDL · July 2022

It's funny how things go full circle. When Tom Sholz set about creating Boston's first heavily multi-layered album, many people were disappointed that they couldn't quite replicate the same studio album sounds on stage. To be honest I actually thought their live performances were better, but many people become accustomed to "LP" sound and expected to hear it. With the advanced technology, and circuits that can now react and track in what amounts to real time, Boston would have had no problem replicating the LP sound, but many people would now prefer to hear a rawer and less LP sound in a live performance.

fretmeister · July 2022

I blame click tracks. I get the need when there are triggered parts / orchestra backings etc, but other than that it's horrible.

Sometimes you get the odd "This song needs to be high energy, so up the click tempo by 10%" too and it's so obvious.

There's no on stage communications anymore. No little looks between players that communicate so much about what is happening. It's basically all pre-programmed. The musicians are just following their lines with a director that won't allow any deviation at all.

The ebb and flow of tempo of a real band is what gives a performance it's soul.

I love good live alums far more than studio stuff.

roundthebend · July 2022

Yes @fretmeister ;
You're on my wavelength. And you've explained how it has come to be less soulful than I'm happy with. Those little glances between players, and reading the body language, and listening to each others' improv to feel the vibe.

The Killers aren't my kind of band really, and they have been doing this thing where they get drummers out of the crowd for a particular song at most gigs I've read about. I think it's even the same song. It happened at Rock Werchter for us, but I enjoyed it because the drummer didn't know the exact arrangement they were playing and I think a bit of stage fright meant he missed some changes etc but it felt more alive. The crowd loved it.

roundthebend · July 2022

The Killers - For Reasons Unknown (Live at Rock Werchter 2022 - with Julien from the crowd on drums)

stickyfiddle · July 2022

I agree with the OP and I think @fretmeister has nailed it on a bunch of the reason behind it.

Also, I bloody love the Killers - I've been hot & cold on some of the last few records but they're a fantastic live band and always have been, especially now Dave Keuning is back.

roundthebend · July 2022

In this version of the same song, the wrong guy gets up to play drums first (he just chanced it) but the way the band handle the whole thing and get the right guy up is immense. I love that sort of thing at shows.

roundthebend · July 2022

stickyfiddle said:

I agree with the OP and I think @fretmeister has nailed it on a bunch of the reason behind it.

Also, I bloody love the Killers - I've been hot & cold on some of the last few records but they're a fantastic live band and always have been, especially now Dave Keuning is back.

I've got a new interest in The Killers and it was the live performance that really did it. They are fantastic musicians, not just creating catchy tunes, but the way they interact with each other in these clips shows they have energy and soul rather than just technical ability.

EricTheWeary · July 2022

As with so many of these things it's horses, courses,etc,etc. The last band (act?) I saw was Alice Cooper which was probably more like musical theatre than a rock show but I think that's what that audience expects so fine. I do like bands with a bit of edge, willingess to go out on a limb. One of my guitar heroes is Bernie Torme and I'm aware that if I posted almost any live clip by Bernie off YouTube it would sound a bit shit. He would go for it, there would be energy and interaction with band members and the audience which was great in the room but sounds like a lot of wrong notes sat at home dissecting the video.
RIP Bernie.

maltingsaudio · July 2022

The technology available today compared to even 20 years ago means that if your band has the money to pay for it near HiFi quality can be achieved in a field or stadium, and I suppose people paying £250 a ticket for such shows expect such quality. Fair play . The band then has the duty to deliver perfection each night of a tour so a thoroughly rehearsed show that doesn’t change over a 30 date run is the only way to go, technology can also help with tour fatigue so the performer doesn’t necessarily have to be at the top of his/her game for each show ( loved the Sheryl Crow story) .

These shows are there to make money and most of the audience are non musicians so they get what they expect to hear.

Musicians going to a show, I believe, expect that extra piece of magic which your not going to get in a stadium for the above reasons.

Personally I would far prefer to go to a venue which holds up to 1000 people to listen to a band where it’s not perfection but magical, with a little bit of feedback thrown in just to prove it’s live.

Bluebeard · July 2022

Since 2019 I saw 3 of the best gigs I have ever been to have been to, and considering Covid stopped gigs for pretty much 2 years of that, I can't say I agree that live music is becoming dull, but I do agree that there are problems.

First thing I thought reading through the OP was the influence that clicks and in ear monitors have had but that has been covered already.

I have found that in recent years the atmosphere in the crowd has been lacking and that often makes a gig worse. Just this weekend I got told off at a Pearl Jam gig by some guy 10 rows from the barrier because I stood on his picnic blanket with shoes on.

Some issues -
Tickets are ridiculously expensive and this prices out younger fans.
Banks now get priority tickets and give discounts to their best customers.
Gigs can sell out before they even go on general sale.
Golden circles, VIP areas and safety barriers down the middle of the crowd dampen the atmosphere.
People spend too much time taking videos on their phones that always come out shit because the microphone can't handle the volume

I went to Rock Werchter in 2018. The lineup was incredible but the atmosphere was honestly pretty terrible. It was during a heat wave though so I assumed it was probably because of that.

Caffeine_Vampire · July 2022

Technology in music is turning musicians into robo-jukeboxes. Might as well pay extortionate prices to watch a greatest hits album on stage these days. We're going to make ourselves obsolete unless we remind a paying audience that if they want to hear something that sounds exactly like the record then they should stay at home.

StefB · July 2022

Bluebeard said:

I have found that in recent years the atmosphere in the crowd has been lacking and that often makes a gig worse. Just this weekend I got told off at a Pearl Jam gig by some guy 10 rows from the barrier because I stood on his picnic blanket with shoes on.

LOL for the Pearl Jam/picnic blanket comment. That is brilliant and pretty much sums up the whole problem the OP is referring to.

bbill335 · July 2022

from scanning the thread, it seems there's two problems: a lack of adventurous and a too-prescriptive idea about what music performance should be. backing tracks, click tracks, it's all fair game if you own it and do something interesting. just this weekend, i saw every sort of act i can think of at supersonic festival, very few of which i had listened to before.

allowing yourself the opportunity to be surprised goes a long way.

roundthebend · July 2022

bbill335 said:

from scanning the thread, it seems there's two problems: a lack of adventurous and a too-prescriptive idea about what music performance should be. backing tracks, click tracks, it's all fair game if you own it and do something interesting. just this weekend, i saw every sort of act i can think of at supersonic festival, very few of which i had listened to before.

allowing yourself the opportunity to be surprised goes a long way.

I'd never heard of that festival so I'll check it out. I'm stunned by how many festivals there are these days, and how many of them have huge bands on the bill. I almost think those Tribute band festivals might be better for the musicianship aspect.

bbill335 · July 2022

I almost think those Tribute band festivals might be better for the musicianship aspect.

hmm, i think you and i might have very different ideas of what a good gig is!

roundthebend · July 2022

second thoughts, I think you're right @bbill335 ;

Anyway, on a brighter note I'm going to a gig at a small venue this Friday which cost £11, then in a few weeks to another small venue to see a band I know little about for about £6. Those are the gigs I should be going to more often.

newi123 · July 2022

I don`t do festivals - literally no interest. You`re so far away and watching on a big screen you might as well watch it on YT from the comfort of your own house, near a clean working toilet with a cold beer!

I do like watching really good bands in small clubs and there are plenty around.

People expect music to be perfect now, especially big bands I think - people are judged not just by the audience at the time like in the good old days, but by the many videos of the performances that then go on social media - check out Justin Hawkins Rides again on YT, where many of his videos address complaints against legendary vocalists not being upto expectation - his response is usually, `well it`s rock and roll, and xyz is now getting on a bit - you can`t expect them to sound like the record, or how they did 30 years ago` - but people do.

So a consequence of that is that tech is used to make shows perfect - everything is timed, tracked, choreographed to the lights etc etc etc - thats not what I enjoy.

As a band we are just learning Rosanna, and I went and watched live vids of toto from the mid 80s and then recently - the 80s they sound like a live band. It`s great, but not 100% like the record - now they sound basically like the record. Why, because if you watch the interview with their live sound guy, everything is run from protools on 2 pcs, so that on a song by song basis they have a different program of eqs and fx to replicate the record - that simply wasn`t available to do a few years back.

I sound like I`m ranting, and I`m really not. Music is ever changing, and it`s different now from how it was. But there is still great old school performance available at grass roots level if you look.

stickyfiddle · July 2022

newi123 said:

As a band we are just learning Rosanna, and I went and watched live vids of toto from the mid 80s and then recently - the 80s they sound like a live band. It`s great, but not 100% like the record - now they sound basically like the record. Why, because if you watch the interview with their live sound guy, everything is run from protools on 2 pcs, so that on a song by song basis they have a different program of eqs and fx to replicate the record - that simply wasn`t available to do a few years back.

I sound like I`m ranting, and I`m really not. Music is ever changing, and it`s different now from how it was. But there is still great old school performance available at grass roots level if you look.

I don’t like Toto either way, but that sounds noisy awful. The whole point of live music is that it isn’t the record.

I don’t think you’re ranting particularly. I adore U2 but they skirt the edges (no pun intended) of having too much perfection and backing. Most of the time the my get away with it as at least most of the live arrangements are quite different to the originals, and in most cases much better for it

fretmeister · July 2022

I watched Queen Live at Wembley earlier.

No in-ears. No clicks. Lots of band eye contact and tempo variation.

Awesome.

CountryDave · July 2022

Just in from watching Brad Paisley in Glasgow.
Lots of video backing up the songs, but a number had the opportunity for the band to go off piste at the end with solos back and forth between BP, the fiddle player and the steel guitar player.
A great show that had lots of interaction between artist and crowd and the video only enhanced the show.

Also good to see him playing his signature models (albeit with added g-bender) along with the custom Crooks and vintage Fenders.

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Controversial viewpoint...live music is becoming dull

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