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UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45
Controversial viewpoint...live music is becoming dull
roundthebend
Frets: 1066
in Live
I was at Rock Werchter last week. I loved it, don't get me wrong, but I noticed something which bothered me. Perhaps it's just a festival issue where there is a tight schedule.
Every band seemed to be so over-rehearsed, and choreographed. And mostly in the same formula. They have intro music, a dramatic stage entrance, play an opener, then greet the crowd often saying how "F**king great the crowd look", then they blast through their rehearsed show only pausing occasionally to either remind the crowd of how good they look or sound, or to try a choreographed piece to pump up the moshpit. It's almost like going to pantomime. Musically too, most bands sounded absolutely spot on to the record which I find a bit dull. I wanna hear different versions of songs, less perfected tone, or something even more beautiful that wouldn't have sat right on the album version.
I wonder if I've just noticed this and it's always been the way, or if something is happening in the industry to make it so. I wonder if Woodstock was like this? I imagine with all the chaos that happened at that festival that it left the musicians to be more creative and therefore a better, more real, experience occurred.
Again, I really enjoyed the festival but felt it was a little bit sanitised. Pearl Jam were a slight exception to this, and RHCP, though as headliners I expect they get a bit more freedom simply because the schedule is less important.
I need to try some arena shows where it's about the headline act rather than an all-day/all-weekend festival.
And I'm going to make an effort to go to more local/small gigs where the bands are less known and less under pressure by the promoter to deliver an exacting "show". That's it.....maybe "shows" are the problem. I want to go back to "gigs".
Every band seemed to be so over-rehearsed, and choreographed. And mostly in the same formula. They have intro music, a dramatic stage entrance, play an opener, then greet the crowd often saying how "F**king great the crowd look", then they blast through their rehearsed show only pausing occasionally to either remind the crowd of how good they look or sound, or to try a choreographed piece to pump up the moshpit. It's almost like going to pantomime. Musically too, most bands sounded absolutely spot on to the record which I find a bit dull. I wanna hear different versions of songs, less perfected tone, or something even more beautiful that wouldn't have sat right on the album version.
I wonder if I've just noticed this and it's always been the way, or if something is happening in the industry to make it so. I wonder if Woodstock was like this? I imagine with all the chaos that happened at that festival that it left the musicians to be more creative and therefore a better, more real, experience occurred.
Again, I really enjoyed the festival but felt it was a little bit sanitised. Pearl Jam were a slight exception to this, and RHCP, though as headliners I expect they get a bit more freedom simply because the schedule is less important.
I need to try some arena shows where it's about the headline act rather than an all-day/all-weekend festival.
And I'm going to make an effort to go to more local/small gigs where the bands are less known and less under pressure by the promoter to deliver an exacting "show". That's it.....maybe "shows" are the problem. I want to go back to "gigs".
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I realise it sounds a bit odd to say I want to go to gigs where the band aren't perfect. But that's what I genuinely want. I want them to be good. RHCP are a case in point - I wasn't particularly excited to see them because the recent tunes are a bit meh in my opinion, but I loved what they did. It was a bit choreographed but they had some jams during the set, and mixed it up with some rough covers and banter. John's tone was immense, and he didn't fart about with guitars to match his outfit for every tune! It felt like real music was the purpose.
I appreciate bands have to be good and rehearsed, but I want to feel like I'm there with them, not just watching on TV and them performing a routine.
It's difficult to explain my point better. I just find it all a bit sanitised. But hey, if you guys like it that way then it's cool. I'm one of those weird people that enjoys when a band screw up, but they're humble about it and use their professionalism to turn things round.
The choreographed audience interaction is understandable as part of an entertainment show, as opposed to a music performance. Last week Guthrie Trapp released a short clip of himself and Tom Bucovac playing in a small bar. One person commented that they should have been focusing on putting on a show, rather than creating music on the fly. I’ll try to find the clip.
https://youtu.be/QWhruQq_ebU
As for "when am I ready?" You'll never be ready. It works in reverse, you become ready by doing it. - pmbomb
I suspect what has REALLY changed, if anything, is that gig and festival tickets are now so fucking expensive, bands have to pull their fingers out and really put on a show people expect, i.e. something pretty perfect and spectacular. The technology makes it much easier as well than it was.
It's a very YMMV topic, the Beatles quit playing live because the technology wasn't there to make themselves heard, let alone get across the nuances of their studio work. Then some bands in the 70s really just jammed through the weed smoke, like the Grateful Dead (who I can't stand) and everything in-between over the years.
As you point out yourself, at grass-roots level everything is represented one way or another, so you can fill your boots there,
I saw the Black Crowes on their first tour over here. They were great. Lots of songs, a bit of ‘off piste’ jamming, but not much. Fast forward to the so called final tour (that clearly wasn’t) and there was way too much jamming, noodling and aimless wandering. Probably could have fit another 3 or 4 songs in.
In stark contrast to this I’m off to see Brad Paisley again on Friday and fully expect to see a polished show, played to a click track, linked to video playing on the big screen. The old Nashville motto ‘You don’t practice until you get it right, you practice until you can’t get it wrong’ comes to mind. The good thing about Paisley is there is clearly some scope in the show for the musicians to have an off piste jam, but the focus is on delivering a professional performance for people shelling out their hard earned cash.
I completely agree with roundthebend - if I want to hear the record note for note - I'll stay at home and stick Spotify on.
It's annoying actually, because I remember being quite happy that streaming was going to force bands to focus on their live shows. But I wanted them to get more organic and then the better (more creative) musicians would rise to the top. What's really happening is that those who can write a catchy tune and can reproduce that on stage through technology are the ones who are going to milk it the most.
Which is not the same as wanking off or endless noodling - there can be a fine line (or someone learning to play on stage
Don't see the point in polished performances where everything is worked out, you might as well put on the record (or modern day equivalent.) Would always rather see someone going for it and failing. Aware music means different things to different folks tho.
I've been to a few gigs in the last couple of months or so. For most of them, if I don't know the band, I deliberately don't try and find out too much about the bands before buying tickets and attending. I might read something, but I definitely don't look at YouTube clips and the like. I like the surprise of discovery.
My local arts centre (The Lighthouse, Poole) has a monthly event (Live and Unheard) with three acts that play original music and usually unsigned. We go every month if we're free. For £10 a pop we generally find one of the three acts are brilliant (not always the headliners..) and another one is worth paying attention to. The audience is usually packed with friends and rellies, but that's OK, it generates atmosphere for everyone.
I've been to the The 1865 in Southampton a couple of times in recent weeks. Based on recommendations from friends, I went to see an Austrian band called Blank Manuskript - they were different and brilliant. I was there a week ago to see A Far Meadow. Also really interesting and very good. Their support was a Brighton duo called Across The Sea. Not so good and a bit gauche, but setting their own bar very high and almost reaching it. Interesting to watch and with some imagination. Tickets for those were £12.50, IIRC. The Sunday evening events at The 1865 are attended by music fans who listen, don't chat to their friends or take selfies (old people, like me!).
In terms of more well-known people, I went to see Sting at The Palladium in April and Warpaint at Bexhill-On-Sea in May. Neither of whom were formulaic (which, for Stingo was a bit of a surprise - my wife made me go, but I enjoyed all of it).
But... from what I know of the people mentioned in the OP, I'm not too surprised. Rock music, esp. American rock music based around "the rock'n'roll image", is a bit cliched and not really about the music any more. It's live music by numbers and without risk. I'd almost certainly have felt the same way.
Try something different! It's out there and it's good! :-)
As I said in a later post, I think I just need to go to more local and small gigs. I'm going to one on Friday actually, though I've researched the headline band a bit. I'm hoping they're better than my research suggests.
1. Festivals are very well organised now and if you run over you get a song cut from your set so you really have to think if you want to sacrifice a song for your rambling anecdote or drum solo.
2. Touring is how bands make money now so shows are expensive and people expect them to be tight and professional entertainment They also tour a lot and so are naturally very slick.
3. Any decent sized band probably has video, light and pyros which probably means they are running do a programmed schedule which they need to stick to
I recommend watching Haim at Glasto. I thought they looked like they were having a blast and putting on a great show although everything they were doing was clearly very rehearsed.
I'm not saying I'm better than Dylan obviously, but at my shitty little amateur level I feel I'm expected to play more polished and clearly than he was when he was massively popular
I know no-one wants to purposely play a gig where they can't hear themselves properly, where their amp doesn't really sound how they want when it's turned up that far, when their guitar won't quite stay in tune and there isn't a roadie ready with however many spares at the drop of a hat, or any number of other problems... but I do wonder if eliminating all that may have made things too 'safe' somehow, and made achieving real greatness less likely.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
just last week I saw a moody blues tribute act in a theatre featuring established names in the band. It was polished and consistent but ultimately bland because f the tracks playing keys or orchestral parts.
cover bands can no longer use a distorting 100w pa into some 2x12 columns stood on chairs, that same joe public has hi fi CD and massive tv showing streamed concerts from around the world. You’d better be of a standard and be prepared to be bootlegged onto yootoob warts and all!
All of the gigs I’ve been to recently have been fkn brilliant, especially Wolf Alice, fantastic live experience.
If you think about it recorded music is pretty much perfect these days. Vocals are tuned, timing is corrected and instruments are multilayered to add density and impact. So people have higher expectations when they see a modern band live. This has brought about some changes.
There's a lot of playing to track these days. Basically the band are playing live but there's a lot of extra keys, samples and vocals on the track. FOH gets the live band and the stems of the track. Track lead vocal and real lead vocal are essential as you can't dance like Britney and sing perfectly in tune with no grunts at the same time ... it's very energetic. Older bands sometimes need a lot of track BV's ... hence Paul Stanley getting caught out on the Kiss tour, didn't get to his mic in time but you can still hear his BV loud and clear
Shania Twain could do a whole gig without singing a note if she was ill, she readily admits this in her book and actually pranked her own band by getting their instruments incorrectly tuned by roadies just before an acoustic piece section of the concert. They then had to play their real instruments pitchy as hell in their ears but the audience had the instruments from the track perfectly in tune so it sounded fine to them.
Muse use a shedload of track, KOL tend to use hidden extra muso's .... U2 are subtle but you can hear bits and pieces flown in here and there. This stuff has always interested me as once I had spotted the cheating I wanted to figure out how to do it myself.
I have friends who play in Pro tributes and their shows are often to track from start to finish. So a typical setup is a laptop running a DAW - an interface with multiple outs and a session with the click & prompt track and extra keys / brass / vocals coming out of it. The click and prompt track goes to IEM's ... the extra instruments and vocals go to FOH and can be mixed on the faders just like the real instruments and vocals.
The click track keeps everyone in time with the recorded track. The prompt track has spoken pointers like "2 more bars then change to next section". This is needed more on long progressive stuff, not so much short songs.
I actually set up our tribute band like this originally, but there was a monitor recall failure at the first gig we tried it at. No one had the click in their ears so I killed the mac playing the session and we just played completely live and have ever since. We do use extra samples triggered via an SPD but there's no playing to track or using any fake keys or vocals. It's all live and better for it IMHO.