Plugin Deals and Discussion Thread

colourofsound · June 2017

After my initial posting of the Waves SSL plugin deal this thread has evolved.

So, discuss and inform relating to studio plugins and cheap deals!

Snap · June 2017

bought!

cheers for that heads up.

Sucker for a sale, I really am. Looks good though

timmysoft · June 2017

I got it instantly, its a pretty powerful tool on most things! Great quality, i'll certainly be using it a lot more than the waves V4 channel strip that was my previous "go to"

octatonic · June 2017

It is worth owning but IMHO virtually all the other SSL style plugins (Slate, UAD and SSL's own plugins) sound better.
For £20 though it is a no-brainer.
I paid £350 for the SSL bundle when it was released, and that was half price at the time.

IMC1980 · June 2017

Thanks for the heads up! I'll grab this later.

spark240 · June 2017

Got really excited....then realised I already had it as part of a pack !

wave100 · June 2017

Don't need any more plugs - got it anyway!

IMC1980 · June 2017

Picked it up last night, any sources/instruments that it is really well suited to? I hope the do this with all the SSL plugs in that collection...

octatonic · June 2017

IMC1980 said:

Picked it up last night, any sources/instruments that it is really well suited to? I hope the do this with all the SSL plugs in that collection...

I don't tend to use the E channel compressor that much.
The EQ sounds nice on toms, acoustic guitars and backing vocals.

If you do use the compressor then I would suggest starting with compressor before EQ.

colourofsound · June 2017

IMC1980 said:

Picked it up last night, any sources/instruments that it is really well suited to? I hope the do this with all the SSL plugs in that collection...

Drums! Stick it on your drum buss. EQ before comp. +3 at 50hz, -6 at 500hz, +3 at 3k (shelf). Put the comp at about 2:1, medium release, and then adjust threshold to taste...

IMC1980 · June 2017

Thanks both, I will try it out on those sources among others!

joeyowen · June 2017

I got it

Usual pain in the ass with Waves Central but it sounds great otherwise. Thanks for the heads up

PolarityMan · June 2017

octatonic said:

IMC1980 said:

Picked it up last night, any sources/instruments that it is really well suited to? I hope the do this with all the SSL plugs in that collection...

I don't tend to use the E channel compressor that much.
The EQ sounds nice on toms, acoustic guitars and backing vocals.

If you do use the compressor then I would suggest starting with compressor before EQ.

Why is that? I'm hardy the worlds best mixer but I would always at least high pass before going into a compressor otherwise you end up with the compressor working too much on the lows . I understand that applying compression is going to change the apparent EQ but if I dont like the result I usually apply a second EQ post compression just to do small tweaks. This could all just be working arounf me not being able to use a compressor properly of course!

colourofsound · June 2017

PolarityMan said:

octatonic said:

IMC1980 said:

Picked it up last night, any sources/instruments that it is really well suited to? I hope the do this with all the SSL plugs in that collection...

I don't tend to use the E channel compressor that much.
The EQ sounds nice on toms, acoustic guitars and backing vocals.

If you do use the compressor then I would suggest starting with compressor before EQ.

Why is that? I'm hardy the worlds best mixer but I would always at least high pass before going into a compressor otherwise you end up with the compressor working too much on the lows . I understand that applying compression is going to change the apparent EQ but if I dont like the result I usually apply a second EQ post compression just to do small tweaks. This could all just be working arounf me not being able to use a compressor properly of course!

+1 to this. I've always EQ'd first to make the compressor work on just the parts that need it. Otherwise the low end pumps the shit out of it and you end up over-compressing your highs as a result. Side-chaining/multiband is another option.

Danny1969 · June 2017

I EQ before compression myself but a lot of guys go the other way. I've mixed many many a track with that SSL channel strip just by chucking the CLA presets on everything .... lazy as fuck but if you set the input gain right and you've tracked in a bog standard mic'ing way the presets work incredibly well

guitarfishbay · June 2017

I tend to start with broadband compression before EQ. I find I do less EQing that way.

I'll only EQ before compression if there's an actual problem with the way the compressor is reacting to the material.

With lows I sometimes think a sidechain is better than Pre EQ as you don't neuter all your low energy, if it's a resonance issue some static EQ can work pretty well afterwards in addition with a milder high pass.

It always depends I guess

PolarityMan · June 2017

Danny1969 said:

I EQ before compression myself but a lot of guys go the other way. I've mixed many many a track with that SSL channel strip just by chucking the CLA presets on everything .... lazy as fuck but if you set the input gain right and you've tracked in a bog standard mic'ing way the presets work incredibly well

That relies presumably on being decent at engineerings too

I have tried mixing via presets but I think my tracking is a bit too all over the place (although I am pretty pleased with the drum mic'ing on our bands last album, especialy when you consider it uses less than £300 worth of mics).

Drew_TNBD · June 2017

I usually EQ before and after compression - compression can bring out the highs a bit too much, and too much low-end going into a compressor can make it pump too much. I'll also stack compressors, so instead of having one doing a lot of compression, I'll have two or even three doing little bits here and there.

guitarfishbay · June 2017

The problem with a more complex EQ Comp EQ chain is if you revisit the first EQ later the comp might react differently and then that means the later EQ settings might be wrong too. The more EQs you add the more potential phase problems you can run into.

If I do that chain I'll try to leave the first EQ as just tidying up what the comp sees so ideally it'll be left alone and any further EQ happens later.

I try to keep comp staging simple too for the same reason. If it doesn't need staging I'll just do it all on one comp then automate instead of the second comp. But this is more a self learning point - in the past I think I've tried to use compression in place of automation when automation would've been preferable. The more I learn the more I appreciate just how good the people who work on great albums are and how relatively crap I am!

IMC1980 · June 2017

Danny1969 said:

I EQ before compression myself but a lot of guys go the other way. I've mixed many many a track with that SSL channel strip just by chucking the CLA presets on everything .... lazy as fuck but if you set the input gain right and you've tracked in a bog standard mic'ing way the presets work incredibly well

I tried the CLA Guitar Amp 1 preset last night on a guitar track and it was pretty impressive. I think I added a bit of 800hz to it, but it didn't take much tweaking at all.

PolarityMan · June 2017

Drew_TNBD said:

I usually EQ before and after compression - compression can bring out the highs a bit too much, and too much low-end going into a compressor can make it pump too much. I'll also stack compressors, so instead of having one doing a lot of compression, I'll have two or even three doing little bits here and there.

When you stack what is your process, is it something like well this individual track needs it peaks tamed a bit as its pokey so you put a bit of compression on that track, then later on in that track's bus you do a little more to affect the whole bus etc or is it multiple compressors on a single track?

I still find hearing subtle compression tricky sometimes so I think I have a tendency to go for fewer compressors doing more...and prob still ruin it sometimes

Drew_TNBD · June 2017

PolarityMan said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I usually EQ before and after compression - compression can bring out the highs a bit too much, and too much low-end going into a compressor can make it pump too much. I'll also stack compressors, so instead of having one doing a lot of compression, I'll have two or even three doing little bits here and there.

When you stack what is your process, is it something like well this individual track needs it peaks tamed a bit as its pokey so you put a bit of compression on that track, then later on in that track's bus you do a little more to affect the whole bus etc or is it multiple compressors on a single track?

I still find hearing subtle compression tricky sometimes so I think I have a tendency to go for fewer compressors doing more...and prob still ruin it sometimes

Grahame from Recordingrevolution goes into it here:

colourofsound · June 2017

Drew_TNBD said:

I usually EQ before and after compression - compression can bring out the highs a bit too much, and too much low-end going into a compressor can make it pump too much. I'll also stack compressors, so instead of having one doing a lot of compression, I'll have two or even three doing little bits here and there.

@PolarityMan What Drew is doing here is called Serial Compression, i.e putting one effect after the other. So the effect of compression is cumulative, so if you stack a number of compressors at low settings you'll get a more subtly reduced dynamic range, (i.e, 3 compressors set at 2:1 ratio combines to form a 6:1 ratio by the time the audio has got through the last compressor) and the the compressors won't crap out in the same way as if you'd put one compressor on at high settings.

In answer to your question (not that you asked me, but I am OP

) I use my ears! Sounds obvious, but I don't have a thought process so much as putting stuff where it's needed. I'm very much an engineer before a mixer so I really like to get as much done in the room as possible so that mixing is very simple.

Some things I do without thinking though is high-pass EQ almost every track except for kick and bass; cutting out the boominess to leave room for the bits that belong there.

Something else worth noting is that I rarely use compression for it's intended purpose - level/dynamic control - instead I'll use it to create a certain sound or get a bit of mojo. If you've got really cutting peaks (i.e a loud snare hit) the only real way of taming that is with automation.

PolarityMan · June 2017

Drew_TNBD said:

PolarityMan said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I usually EQ before and after compression - compression can bring out the highs a bit too much, and too much low-end going into a compressor can make it pump too much. I'll also stack compressors, so instead of having one doing a lot of compression, I'll have two or even three doing little bits here and there.

When you stack what is your process, is it something like well this individual track needs it peaks tamed a bit as its pokey so you put a bit of compression on that track, then later on in that track's bus you do a little more to affect the whole bus etc or is it multiple compressors on a single track?

I still find hearing subtle compression tricky sometimes so I think I have a tendency to go for fewer compressors doing more...and prob still ruin it sometimes

Grahame from Recordingrevolution goes into it here:

Cheers, Ill watch that later

PolarityMan · June 2017

colourofsound said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I usually EQ before and after compression - compression can bring out the highs a bit too much, and too much low-end going into a compressor can make it pump too much. I'll also stack compressors, so instead of having one doing a lot of compression, I'll have two or even three doing little bits here and there.

@PolarityMan
In answer to your question (not that you asked me, but I am OP ) I use my ears! Sounds obvious, but I don't have a thought process so much as putting stuff where it's needed. I'm very much an engineer before a mixer so I really like to get as much done in the room as possible so that mixing is very simple.

Something else worth noting is that I rarely use compression for it's intended purpose - level/dynamic control - instead I'll use it to create a certain sound or get a bit of mojo. If you've got really cutting peaks (i.e a loud snare hit) the only real way of taming that is with automation.

Sadly my ears are not as trained as I would wish them to be in this regard. Need to keep practicing at it.

I've seen someone on a vid recently, think it might have been Logan Mader basically squashing the living fuck out of the drums to the point that there is virtually no transient then putting it back in with a transient designer. I don't have access to a transient designer plugin but wondered what people's thought were.

Im guessing that automation youre thinking of just dipping down rogue hits, but I suppose if you wanted to bring up lighter hits to meet the loud ones that might be easier with a copmressor right?

colourofsound · June 2017

PolarityMan said:

colourofsound said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I usually EQ before and after compression - compression can bring out the highs a bit too much, and too much low-end going into a compressor can make it pump too much. I'll also stack compressors, so instead of having one doing a lot of compression, I'll have two or even three doing little bits here and there.

@PolarityMan
In answer to your question (not that you asked me, but I am OP ) I use my ears! Sounds obvious, but I don't have a thought process so much as putting stuff where it's needed. I'm very much an engineer before a mixer so I really like to get as much done in the room as possible so that mixing is very simple.

Something else worth noting is that I rarely use compression for it's intended purpose - level/dynamic control - instead I'll use it to create a certain sound or get a bit of mojo. If you've got really cutting peaks (i.e a loud snare hit) the only real way of taming that is with automation.

Sadly my ears are not as trained as I would wish them to be in this regard. Need to keep practicing at it.

I've seen someone on a vid recently, think it might have been Logan Mader basically squashing the living fuck out of the drums to the point that there is virtually no transient then putting it back in with a transient designer. I don't have access to a transient designer plugin but wondered what people's thought were.

Im guessing that automation youre thinking of just dipping down rogue hits, but I suppose if you wanted to bring up lighter hits to meet the loud ones that might be easier with a copmressor right?

That sounds horrific to me; and pointless! Unless he's doing that in parallel and mixing it in with the dry signal! It's all a matter of taste though, and what original files you have to work with, what genre you're mixing and so on. But that's not something I'd ever want to do. I generally work on the basis that albums were made in the 70s and 80s without all the crazy plugins we can use now, so I try and keep it as simple as possible and only go to those newer tools if I've got a problem to solve or want to create a wacky effect.

Yes I am thinking that; but if you use a compressor to bring up the lighter bits you'll bring up the noise floor too and make a noisier track, which can crowd your mix. In an ideal situation you have a perfect performance that you don't need to automate

Drew_TNBD · June 2017

Parallel compression and room mics tends to be where I get the character for drums.

guitarfishbay · June 2017

Just a point for people who are less experienced, don't take it as a rule that compressors sound bad doing a lot of gain reduction, just trust your ears on it. Staging compression is a legit technique but so is smashing the hell out of a compressor if that's getting the sound right.

An 1176 for example, or one of the better emulations (Slate Blue is the best I've heard) sounds great on aggressive rock vocals with quite a lot of compression, 10db and above to taste is fine so long as it is sounding good.

If it starts to sound bad then back off and stage it with another comp... but there's nothing wrong with slamming compressors pretty hard if it is working out sonically.

@Drew_TNBD have you tried the Waves Kramer Pie comp? It is/was on sale for the same price $29 recently, I really like the vibe it has on drums and room mics.

guitarfishbay · June 2017

PolarityMan said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I usually EQ before and after compression - compression can bring out the highs a bit too much, and too much low-end going into a compressor can make it pump too much. I'll also stack compressors, so instead of having one doing a lot of compression, I'll have two or even three doing little bits here and there.

When you stack what is your process, is it something like well this individual track needs it peaks tamed a bit as its pokey so you put a bit of compression on that track, then later on in that track's bus you do a little more to affect the whole bus etc or is it multiple compressors on a single track?

I still find hearing subtle compression tricky sometimes so I think I have a tendency to go for fewer compressors doing more...and prob still ruin it sometimes

How loud are you listening?

I find it a lot easier to hear compression listening as quietly as it's possible for most of the time. I find it makes it easier to hear when something starts poking out on top of everything else that way, or when it has too much dynamic range and keeps dropping out of listening range when not playing louder notes.

With regards to staged compression I usually like to have the one that catches the fast peaks going first, then the one doing the overall smoothing second. That way the slower/smoother compressor doesn't get bogged down by any stray high peaks.

PolarityMan · June 2017

colourofsound said:

In an ideal situation you have a perfect performance that you don't need to automate

Ho ho ho

PolarityMan · June 2017

guitarfishbay said:

PolarityMan said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I usually EQ before and after compression - compression can bring out the highs a bit too much, and too much low-end going into a compressor can make it pump too much. I'll also stack compressors, so instead of having one doing a lot of compression, I'll have two or even three doing little bits here and there.

When you stack what is your process, is it something like well this individual track needs it peaks tamed a bit as its pokey so you put a bit of compression on that track, then later on in that track's bus you do a little more to affect the whole bus etc or is it multiple compressors on a single track?

I still find hearing subtle compression tricky sometimes so I think I have a tendency to go for fewer compressors doing more...and prob still ruin it sometimes

How loud are you listening?

I find it a lot easier to hear compression listening as quietly as it's possible for most of the time. I find it makes it easier to hear when something starts poking out on top of everything else that way, or when it has too much dynamic range and keeps dropping out of listening range when not playing louder notes.

With regards to staged compression I usually like to have the one that catches the fast peaks going first, then the one doing the overall smoothing second. That way the slower/smoother compressor doesn't get bogged down by any stray high peaks.

Not crazy loud, these days I do prob 75% on headphones at moderate volume (ie/ I can listen for a few hours without becoming fatigued) I guess a little louder than TV watching volume. Although I'll find myself putting volume up and down a bit depending on what im doing.

The other 25% is on monitors and again maximum of moderate volume, only happens when the baby isn't asleep and has to not be loud enough to be obnoxious in the house.

I basically need to practice more but given time constraints will prob take a long time to really get used to listening with enough clarity.

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