UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45
PA kit advice - 4 piece pub covers band
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We did our first gig on Saturday. Hired a pair of 15" active speakers and a sub (with crossover?), used my own 12" active pair as monitors, hired a 16 channel analogue mixing desk, and borrowed a Behringer EQ on advice that it can help control feedback. Someone helped us set up and adjust levels. We sounded pretty good.
Going forward we can't be hiring kit all the time. Especially since, if you've seen my post in Off Topic, the hired kit turned out to be stolen and has been seized by the police so we've not got that option open any more.
We need something simple to set up and use, and ideally not too large to store.
Should we just be going for a similar setup to what we used on that gig?
Band setup -
- Electronic drums
- 4 vocal mics
- 2 guitarists (using valve combos not mic'd up)
- 1 bassist (can he go direct to PA perhaps, with a DI or modelling pedal?)
Our sound engineer assistant talked to me about digital mixers making life easier for controlling feedback, rather than needing an EQ or extra features on the mixer. My own little Behringer Xenyx 1202FX doesn't have the dial he was using (frequency) and also doesn't have balanced/XLR outputs to the speakers.
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Budget - well, we don't want to spend loads of money so whatever it takes to get us a simple and usable sound. Our punters aren't going to be worried about it, as long as we can be heard and as long as the band have got some foldback to keep us all tuned in to each other.
I'm wondering if my 12" actives might be good enough for vocals and some of the higher frequency percussion sounds, but add a sub to get the kick sound booming. Then maybe we can save space and get some small monitors. A new desk is going to be needed, and one that has enough features to help us control EQ/frequency so we can manage feedback.
If I have to spend £800 that would be OK. Any more and I'll be hunting around on ebay.
We run an RCF M18 mixer (much the same as the Behringer) into 2x Yamaha DBR12s and a DXS15 sub, we got the Yamaha kit second hand for £750 - so far it's been great, especially since we switched from acoustic to electronic drums, the sub really comes into its own there. We also use the RCF mixer to send IEM mixes for each member via the aux sends.
@Danny1969; I'm intrigued to hear what you recommend
It's an expensive guitar cable at £50 but it's cheaper than running a wireless IEM setup and sonically superior as there's no radio interference and no batteries required.
I did always want a really good guitar and IEM wireless setup but even paying top money for a Senn unit didn't stop radio interference issues ... not just with the normal congested channels but with various electrical items in the theatres causing noise in the system.
Other than a set of headphones and the monitor send from the mixer, is there any other gizmo you need/use in this IEM set up?
is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?
You still need a headphone amp and you need the right kind of cable to convert aux sends .. which are generally balanced differential outputs to single ended outs.
To do this short pin 3 of an XLR output to ground. If it's a balanced TRS output then short the ring to ground. That will give you a singled ended IEM signal. For stereo use 2 aux outs converted in this way. . Then the grounds of these 2 go to TRS ground of the headphone amp in and the signals go to the ring and tip of the TRS input of the headphone amp.
I did make a version where I installed a headphone amp in the actual cable itself which was powered from the pedalboards neg centre 9V supply
But It's a fiddly to make, although happy to share technical details to anyone who wants them.
I see it.. more complicated than just the fancy cable and an amp then.. as you were..
is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?
"Hey why does everything sound like shit all of a sudden"
"Ummm well maybe given you're the only instrument making any noise int he room you could use a bit less of the drums in the mix...also why is tom1 have its fader on full blast?"
I think we'll go down the latter route to begin with. The downside to it being cheaper is that someone needs to store and transport a pair of monitors.
I think I need to look at mixer options.
My Behringer Xenyx 1202FX has a couple of limitations that I'm aware of...
1. ¼" output jacks only, no XLR
So, a question - given my current active speakers are fairly low budget QTXsound 12" ones, should I consider getting something like a pair of RCF 310a instead and use mine as monitors? Or, what about a set of passive speakers and a cheap power amp?
8 aux outs, very clean multitrack recording to USB stick, Web browser based control, rather than apps like Behringer and others.. so no risk of key bits going redundant or incompatible. HDMI and mouse, for direct control with a mini screen too if iPad fails.
We use mix of floor monitors and 3x IEM and other combinations with different lineups.
upgrade your mains and then repurpose your old ones as floor monitors while you try/decide on IEMs.
The cheapest Behringer IEM unit accepts 1/4” and XLR input and has a mono/stereo switch. I use Shure SEs, but much prefer real amp and floor monitors anytime I can.
https://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Behringer-Powerplay-PM1-In-Ear-Monitor-Belt-Pack/1WMM?origin=product-ads&gclid=CjwKCAjwxr2iBhBJEiwAdXECwxUBPTaOI0NdV0S-txuuh9T0iPJWegtbf378B_ZvWWgCb5goY6tNgRoC85IQAvD_BwE
We run IEM cables with mic cables to the mic stands.. so easy to plug in earphones if singing or doing BVs. Wireless can be a lot of extra hassle but useful if you run about on very big stages,
We have major problems when the signals are lost with wireless.. happens about one in three gigs when the cheaper 2,4ghz stuff gets into conflict. Need to pay a lot for decent wireless and have the use case IMO.
A pair of floor monitors is enough, and we might get them for £300 if we hunt around. IEMs will add the faff for those who change guitars and might cost a similar amount but add cables and other stuff to the setup.
I'm looking at a couple of Alto TX308s on ebay. Even new they are reasonably good value, it seems.
I want to spend less than <£1000:
I realise this is a tall order, especially if I do go with an XR18 which swallows 60% of the budget.
Or, I'm watching a Behringer X2222USB on ebay which is cheap enough to leave funds for other components of our system.