Holy cow! Not sure if this is under effects or amps...

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

Only just realised AMT have 2 channel versions of their modelling preamps. Basically, an analogue pedal sized thang that works as a distortion/character pedal, plus has 2 more outputs, one for a mixer/sound card and one for a PA (I think?).

They have 2 channels, the first is the clean which is the same for all pedals and is 'influenced' by generic Fender tones. Has a button to get a wee bit of grit, and sounds pretty fat and warm. Usable - yes. Nice? I think so!

The second channel models the gain channel of another amp - from 5150/6505 to Bognor Uberschall to a Marshall JCM800.

Brett here - This one is a rectifier http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOs9Mux5oDA

Sounds ace!

monquixote · October 2013

I think @Digitalscream is a big fan of these.

impmann · October 2013

When he is going to let the wasps out of that there jam jar?

Sorry not impressed with the DI sound one bit and its more than a little 'tizzy' through the Fender amp.

And the Palmer amp... erm.

Not my bag, baby.

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

Wow, really? I thought it sounded pretty ace! Easily a gig backup, and possibly even just a gigging amp if there is a pa.

Obviously it's not as nice as the real thing, but I thought it sounded pretty excellent. The Bognor one is my fave.

guitarfishbay · October 2013

A Legend Series 2 pedal has been on my wish list for a while.

The R2 doesn't convince me though as a Recto type for direct, the FX return option sounds closer to something I'd believe as being a Recto, but then again I think most emulations/Recto pedals miss the mark by a fair bit (except the Kemper/Axe but that is a totally different product and price range).

It is hard to tell from the video (as I'm skimming through) but it looks like the treble control only changes the high end, which is different to the real amp where the treble control essentially controls the whole tone. I was more impressed by clips of the S2 and P2 personally. I wish UK distributors would stock them, as it stands Thomann is the only place I know you can get them from.

JohnPerry · October 2013

I got the AMT SS-11A after digitalscream's recommendation. Fantastic DI recording pedal - best solution I have found and I have tried a good number. Sounded a bit ratty when it arrived. I switched the Russian valves for a couple of old Mullards and it was utterly transformed.

Still sounds vile in front of an amp.

digitalscream · October 2013

monquixote said:

I think @Digitalscream is a big fan of these.

Aye, that I am. I've got the C2, and it's pretty damn amazing:

The cab sim out is good enough to send to the PA if you need an emergency backup. However, feed the preamp output into a recording interface, apply some decent cab impulses and you'll have a much better sound than anything I've had from a POD HD or Eleven Rack.

ecc83 · October 2013

Err,

would people tell us what they are listening to these clips thru please?

PC speakers the size of beer cans are really not good enough you know.

In any case, raw, unprocessed distorted guitar TENDS to sound bad when not in a mix. There is a bit of art and experience needed to judge it. (No! I can't! D A A P me).

Dave. Just had a harken. Quite trebly to me even without my aids in. Listening via a 2496 into Tannoy 5a's

digitalscream · October 2013

ecc83 said:

Err,
would people tell us what they are listening to these clips thru please?
PC speakers the size of beer cans are really not good enough you know.

In any case, raw, unprocessed distorted guitar TENDS to sound bad when not in a mix. There is a bit of art and experience needed to judge it. (No! I can't! D A A P me).

Dave. Just had a harken. Quite trebly to me even without my aids in. Listening via a 2496 into Tannoy 5a's

Yup - the cab sim out can be a tad harsh (noticeable using Sennheiser HD201s or Tannoy Reveal passives), but trust me when I say that using the preamp out into an appropriate impulse fixes that. For reference, I use the C2 direct into the RedWirez free impulses (4x12" G12M cabs). If you're recording (which is a big use case for these things), using a high-pass filter to taste sorts out any fizz anyway.

If anything, I found the low-end slightly harder to control on the C2.

guitarfishbay · October 2013

ecc83 said:

Err,
would people tell us what they are listening to these clips thru please?
PC speakers the size of beer cans are really not good enough you know.

In any case, raw, unprocessed distorted guitar TENDS to sound bad when not in a mix. There is a bit of art and experience needed to judge it. (No! I can't! D A A P me).

Dave. Just had a harken. Quite trebly to me even without my aids in. Listening via a 2496 into Tannoy 5a's

Pair of ATH M50 headphones. I have heard a lot of isolated guitar clips through these headphones and own a Rectifier Roadster head.

I agree that unprocessed distorted guitar can sound bad out of a mix but I honestly don't think that R2 direct demo sounds good or convincing as a Rectifier. It is more fizzy than I'd expect and the 'meat' of the tone doesn't sound right. The other pedals tend to sound better in his demos IMO. I've heard a few good clips with the P and S variants.

Dodge · October 2013

I had the Vox one in the past (it went to another forum member, although I can't recall who) - it was very good, especially into a loop or impulse responses as mentioned above. I would have kept it, but I had other gear that covered the same ground (i.e. Lightning into a reactive load box and into IR's - not really a fair comparision!)

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

Sennheiser hd 215s here. Sounds fine! Yeah, bit fizzy, but it's a get out of jail free card for gigs, and it's pretty easy to dial out top end fizz. The pod farm models are all the same, but put an eq post model with the high end cut and things change a lot, revealing a much more amp like sound.

I think it sounds pretty decent. If an amp blew up at a gig, this seems a really good alternative - and it doesn't suffer any more than any other pedal from a DI perspective.

ROOG · October 2013

I bet I could make it sound much worse!

Compared with the high gain sounds that I seem to be able to muster using all manner of pedals it sounds pretty good.

Drew_TNBD · October 2013

Sounds utterly terrible going direct. Sounds REALLY good going through the Fender return. Sounds AWFUL through the Palmer.

I do wonder if you could put together a decent rig with something like one of these and a EHX44, or even a lightweight poweramp like the Matrix stuff.

guitarfishbay · October 2013

Fair enough as a get out of jail card. It wouldn't work for my needs as I need a second gain channel, so I currently have a HT Dual for that reason as my backup + direct if needed option.

I'd be interested in the P2 or S2 as a different sounding high gain preamp to use with my Roadster power section for recording. I've no idea how the two would sound together. For all intents and purposes the P1 definitely sounded like a 5150 pre amp when paired with a 5150 [6505] power amp, as demonstrated in this video. FWIW I picked out the real amp on headphones but I reckon for the money the P1 sounds close here -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thQX0DoLEuw

I have actually heard of people using a P2 into a 6505 FX retun instead of the real preamp. That way they get a proper clean along with a gain channel close enough that the audience would never know since they're seeing the real half stack onstage.

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

The K2 sounds good too - supposedly a Krank, but I have not got a clue, just a cool drive sound. Doesn't do great 'lower gain' stuff, though.

I actually think the DI sounds as good as any other high gain DI - they always seem to need a bit of taming.

Anyway, this is the K2 which has LOADS of gain - too much, maybe, I doubt I'd get it above 1/2! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_sHkEpvGGk

@guitarfishbay that's a quality demo. As you say, gets the 6505 a clean channel! Neat. Definitely a worthwhile backup. I'm guessing B is the solid state pedal, but that's only because in the second riff, it sounds a bit flubby in the bass end - something the 5150/6505 isn't?

I'd like to hear one going through a straight forward PA - say, pedal, EQ, PA, speakers. That would be a real acid test, I suppose.

You can run all 3 simultaneously, so you could record it both as DI and from an amp at the same time. That might sound quite huge.

Drew_TNBD · October 2013

^ Those are very close. I couldn't confidently pick the real amp versus the pedal. At a guess I'd say A was the real amp. But then again the pedal has the benefit of the tube power section, which would make a big difference I think. Typically a lot of these boxes for the DI'd cab sim sound use IIR filters, and I think they sound crap. Impulse responses are way better.

guitarfishbay · October 2013

Drew_fx said:

^ Those are very close. I couldn't confidently pick the real amp versus the pedal. At a guess I'd say A was the real amp. But then again the pedal has the benefit of the tube power section, which would make a big difference I think. Typically a lot of these boxes for the DI'd cab sim sound use IIR filters, and I think they sound crap. Impulse responses are way better.

There really is very little in it. The real one roars a little more and is a bit thicker, the answer is in the comments section on the video. You'd need to listen in HD or you've got little chance to tell a difference IMO in isolation, I reckon in a mix nobody would know.

I heard it first on headphones a while ago (then had Sennheiser HD380s), then read the answers, then checked on my monitors which at the time were KRK RP6s. I don't think I'd have been able to tell blind on the speakers in all honesty.

I've tried franken amping before between a Blackstar S1 104EL34 and a Mesa Roadster and I didn't think either sounded great into the other's power section, hence why I'm unsure on buying a P2 as a '5150' for recording as I've no idea how it will sound through a Rectifier power amp. It is pretty hard to find any clips of the real thing being Franken amped either though I'm pretty sure some people have tried it.

Amps and IRs work well too, I've used FX send from amps in the past with IRs for silent recording and if you pick a good IR the results are better than micing the cab badly (which I've done several times!).

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

Franken amping. Love it.

It makes me wonder what it would be like to use a P2 into a straight forward solid state or valve power amp. Just need to work out a reliable, good sounding power amp that is portable and loud!

It could work out cheaper than buying a 6505 head and 2x12 cab. Harley Benton 2x12 + AMT P2 + 6l6 valve power amp = sonic heaven?

Drew_TNBD · October 2013

To me, these things would be really at home for live performance. Valve amps are heavy as f00k as we all know, and tempermental to knocks and scrapes. If I had a nice valve amp I wouldn't bother recording for one.

Part of the reason we're finding it difficult to go and tour in Europe is because of transport costs for our gear. A few preamp pedals and a poweramp, and organising cabs the other end... would make it MUCH easier!

digitalscream · October 2013

My pedal-only rig idea was something like this - get two of the AMT pedals and an A/B loop pedal (which literally switches between loops A and B, with no bypass and no A+B). Use one for your clean and rhythm sounds, and leave the other on its distorted channel for lead. Instant 3-channel preamp, with the bonus that you can even have specific effects for your lead channel (eg always-on delay) for reduced stompage by including them in its loop.

Shove that into the effects return of whatever amp's available (if rig sharing) or something like a Magnum .44, and you've probably got the most portable 3-channel rig possible.

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

digitalscream said:

My pedal-only rig idea was something like this - get two of the AMT pedals and an A/B loop pedal (which literally switches between loops A and B, with no bypass and no A+B). Use one for your clean and rhythm sounds, and leave the other on its distorted channel for lead. Instant 3-channel preamp, with the bonus that you can even have specific effects for your lead channel (eg always-on delay) for reduced stompage by including them in its loop.

Shove that into the effects return of whatever amp's available (if rig sharing) or something like a Magnum .44, and you've probably got the most portable 3-channel rig possible.

That's actually brilliant. You could use a 'series 2' one for clean and rhythm, then one of the 1 series for lead, complete with always on effects.

That's a genuinely attractive proposition. I'd need to see how easy it is to rewire the switch on the pedals, though - they;d go eventually, but on the other hand, if you're modelling a 6505, fender twin and a cornford, it'd be fairly realistic to have a spare of each of the two pedals.

I have to admit, though, I'm not a massive fan of the Magnum .44. Tried one in a shop with a POD, and it sounded pretty great but broke on the shop floor! They even warned me that they had had a few returns for dead ones.

Perhaps another amp guy can recommend a suitable portable amp.

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

Just to add... This is running the pedal as a preamp into the effects loop of an Engl. I really need to try one of these into a solid state PA of some kind...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCH8iWifgU4

Obviously, he has a very 'djent' sound, that sort of 'clean but distorted' sound (that I love) but it gives an idea of the differences. They all sound pretty great though (obviously through the arse end of an Engl effects loop, anyway).

Edit: The AMT Stonehead might actually just be a couple of these running into a power amp... Not sure about all the loops and shiz though.

monquixote · October 2013

If the 44 Magnum is no good maybe you could use a valvestate 8004, or a ZT lunchbox with an external cab.

Failing that you can get a B stock Stonehead for £400 from Thomann.

The ID head is a similar price which might do the job if they are as good as people claim.

digitalscream · October 2013

Yup, I was going to suggest a ZT - in fact, the Club (with its 12" speaker) would probably be fine without an external cab.

I used a Lunchbox with my Eleven Rack, and it was the best the 11R ever sounded.

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

Wow, high praise. I need to try the zt with a preamp, I only used it dry and decided it was, er, dry sounding.

digitalscream · October 2013

monquixote said:

If the 44 Magnum is no good maybe you could use a valvestate 8004, or a ZT lunchbox with an external cab.

Failing that you can get a B stock Stonehead for £400 from Thomann.

The ID head is a similar price which might do the job if they are as good as people claim.

Then again...if you've got a 4-channel Stonehead, you probably don't need the preamp pedals. 4CM would net you another two channels, though - does anybody really need a 6-channel rig?

guitarfishbay · October 2013

Drew_fx said:

To me, these things would be really at home for live performance. Valve amps are heavy as f00k as we all know, and tempermental to knocks and scrapes. If I had a nice valve amp I wouldn't bother recording for one.

Part of the reason we're finding it difficult to go and tour in Europe is because of transport costs for our gear. A few preamp pedals and a poweramp, and organising cabs the other end... would make it MUCH easier!

I know what you mean. This is getting OT maybe but I'm actually considering something similar for a band setup but haven't decided what way to go. Currently using an Ironheart IRT120h, a real pedal board, and a 4x12. It sounds fantastic and is easy to use.

Recent writing has led to tap dancing which is leaning me towards another FX unit (had and sold a GT8, it sounded fine but wasn't intuitive to use in a rush) but there still would be two footed changes because the Ironheart doesn't have midi. Also I still wouldn't easily have an option to go direct to desk if I wanted to without buying a speaker sim/loadbox like a Palmer.

Basically I'm weighing up Ironheart + FX unit + Switcher + Palmer (as a potential future purchase if touring the UK) and probably coming to the conclusion that I'm better off 'investing' in a digital rig instead. For overseas gigs I can totally see a smaller rig being a far better choice.

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

Even for pub gigging - I only have a small car, but could easily fit a rack pa (like a valvestate one - any good?), a few pedals and a couple of these preamps with a looper with a 1x12 or even a 2x12 in stereo (which would give epic chorus toanz). Even just one of the 2 channel preamps and a drive/boost, stereo chorus and delay gives a good variety of sounds and a chorus rig with the only bulk being the cab itself.

A 1x12 cab would just be the super portable version.

steamabacus · October 2013

Burgs' video of using a pedalboard with an AMT F1 at the end going direct to PA on a live gig...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgFqWaEoU-0

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

Niiiice. Works pretty well!

I've just looked for power amps for guitar, and it's nuts. Most of them are more expensive than straight forward valve guitar amps!

I literally know nothing about them, just the Marshall VS and the massive heavy valve ones, and the Mesa ones.

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Holy cow! Not sure if this is under effects or amps...

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