Victory Amps Launching tomorrow!!

spacecadet · October 2013

Some very interesting comments on this and I would hazard a guess at 95% negative. All without hearing and mainly based on price/ cosmetics.

I get the lack of confidence because of poor service from Cornford but lets not forget, Martin was purely a designer and nothing more to do with the company. I think it's relatively common knowledge that Cornford has disappeared because Paul drank all the profits. They were good amps (if you liked THAT sound). The failings started when money started to run out and corners started to be cut. If the actual designer is in charge of the company I can only expect to see some exceptional service, purely because HIS name and HIS reputation is on the line.

The price thing I find especially interesting, particularly as I see people on here with Two Rock, Suhr, CAE and the like which are stupid expensive. Two Rocks are Dumble clones which are just modified Fenders. As someone else said, there is very little that's new/ revolutionary out there barring something like the Kempers. They are all variations on a theme.

The way I look at this is that we have a guy from the UK who wants to make great amps for the people who want to buy them. If you don't like it or can't afford it, then you're not his customer. The Rob Chapman thing is questionable, but he has over 100k subscribers and has championed the product. Thats a global marketing save of thousands upon thousands of £'s. I would be straight on the phone to him if it was me. Guthrie is considered to be the worlds greatest living guitar player and there is already a connection there. Again, damn right I would be on the phone to him.

I will be trying one although from the demo's I have heard, I don't think it would be for me. But I will try one. The cost is not important to me. I gig enough to warrant expensive gear. Sometimes the cheap stuff works just as well but I need something that won't break and delivers the goods every night or we don't another booking. My main guitars are US Std Fenders. They just work. My amps are Budda and Peavey. They just work. My gear isn't for everyone but it's certainly for me. If Martin has made a great, solid and reliable amp, I applaud him.

That is all. You may now return to your moaning.

spacecadet · October 2013

Sorry, one more thing. Anyone who says they cannot gig with 10 watts needs some educating. It's not all about wattage.

Carry on.

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

spacecadet;48074" said:
Sorry, one more thing. Anyone who says they cannot gig with 10 watts needs some educating. It's not all about wattage.

Carry on.

So long as you have a quiet drummer and don't mind always being dirty or "hairy". It certainly won't work for the, er, heavier styles

which is something not catered for in the UK boutique market, to my knowledge - no boutique metal amps until you get to Germany!

I've currently got a 5 watter which I've used in a small pub gig and it was fine, but I bloody hate how small it sounds. On balance, I tend not to enjoy amps much until they're hitting 30 watts of so, and I very rarely find I don't like a 100 watter, even at low volume.

That said, I still think it's going to be tough work for them, so these amps really need to stand out. I like the name, and the logo. No, really... But these amps, for that money, need to bring something different, as if they're just (for example) a Marshall, well, you can get a Marshall.

Edit: a lot of people love the "small amp near meltdown" sound, and I do - but not for my music.

spacecadet · October 2013

I agree, 10watts will not get over a drummer. Even a quiet one if you want a pristine clean sound. However, that is only the case if you are using the amp on it's own. If you are micing up and letting the PA do the work, the world is your lobster. You could gig with a half watt amp and sound epic! I did a support slot for an 80's icon earlier in the year and the guitar player was using 2 Pro Juniors, off stage. Neither of them were set above 3 on the volume and the sound out front was huge.

Like I said, it's all about education and knowing how to not just use the gear you have, but get the most out of it and get round any situation you may find yourself in.

frictionfraction · October 2013

10 watts 50 watts 100 watts valves, British rock amps What's not to get excited about. I hope they are a roaring success. Cornford were great amps with their own sound and styled. At the end the customer service went down the tubes but you could get any half decent amp tech to sort them out for you. If the victory amps are in the same vein I will succumb to their allure sooner or later...... I wish you every success Mr Kidd

Dave_Mc · October 2013

spacecadet said:
The price thing I find especially interesting, particularly as I see people on here with Two Rock, Suhr, CAE and the like which are stupid expensive.

Does everyone who's complaining have those amps? I know I don't. Admittedly I do have an engl (but it was nowhere near Two Rock money), but it's much higher wattage and with much more features.

Part of my moan was assuming it'd sound like the carrera- if it doesn't, then I'll obviously take that bit back. I didn't think the carrera was terrible or anything, but I wasn't super-fussed on it, either.

But the bit about low wattage and seeming expensive are true almost regardless of how good it sounds. My little hayden has just about enough headroom at home practice volumes, let alone jamming or gigging levels. As ThePrettyDamned says, that small amp about to go into meltdown tone is great if it's what you need... but it's not always what everyone needs. Personally, I'd feel limited. YMMV. And that's before you consider that a single ender doesn't sound the same as a bigger amp.

I'd also note that my moan is entirely related to this specific model- if they also do a hurricane-alike or even one of the higher wattage cornford-alike heads, then my moan will not be aimed at them. And I would also point out that just because I've thought of some possible pitfalls with one model, it doesn't mean I want the entire company to fail, or anything like that. Far from it. I was annoyed when Cornford went belly-up...

rockmonster · October 2013

Like I said, it's all about education and knowing how to not just use the gear you have, but get the most out of it and get round any situation you may find yourself in.------ Don't talk to me about education I've been in it for over 25 years and don't give me that 10 watt bollocks either. I've been playing for 40 years and gigging for nearly 35. Unless you have access to a pro PA and a sound man who knows what he's doing then forget it mate go and blow smoke up someone else's arse. It may surprise you to hear that there really are a lot of us on here who actually do know what we are doing and have been doing it for a very long time.

hotpickups · October 2013

Blimey all getting a little bit hairy guys. At least these victory amps are creating a stir with all you guitarists on its first day of launch. Could be promising. We'll have to wait and see

John_P · October 2013

Hopefully they do sound great - I'd have liked to see some new features compared to competition, and while I'm not a fan of the style I could live it with it if it had the features I'm looking for.
The one thing that does put me off is the control layout - I can't recall an amp with such a confusing layout of tone and gain knobs as the v100

digitalscream · October 2013

spacecadet said:

Sorry, one more thing. Anyone who says they cannot gig with 10 watts needs some educating. It's not all about wattage.

Carry on.

That's complete crap. Even when using your amps through a PA, you still have to be able to hear them on-stage. As soon as the drummer hits a cymbal or a snare, you're going to disappear if you want anything less driven than a balls-out saturated power stage with a 10W amp.

Yes, you could stick it through a monitor, but that then restricts you to venues which have enough monitor channels to do so. Half the venues I've played in the last 3 years only had two monitor mixes, meaning one for the singer and one for the backing singer or drummer. Even at the ones with more than that, the monitors themselves were crap.

At that point, you have to start taking monitors with you. Which is fine, but you'd probably need a 100W monitor (at least) to give you enough headroom to get an accurate sound. All to compensate for the fact that you're using a 10W amp.

Nerine · October 2013

Yeah, 10w is nowhere near enough headroom unless, as it's been said, you've got lots of PA and monitoring.

It'd get lost on stage.

I've had a JTM45 get lost on stage with my blues band.

50w is the absolute minimum I need to gig with without having extra monitors, mics, adequate PA etc. YMMV, but I know what works for me. And it's certainly not a 10w amp.

spacecadet · October 2013

Guys, you are missing the point. It has been said that 10watts is not loud enough to gig with. Yes. It. Is. IF you have the PA and monitor system. You don't need monitor guys of front of house guys. I have had the luxury of both over the years and I know I am lucky to have had that but currently, I am the front of house AND monitor guy that just happens to be part of the band. I do this because I know what I am doing and I know what I am doing because sat down and read up and talked to people and didn't get stuck in a hole.
The guys on here that have been gigging for 40 years and say all this is not possible, well I would love to sit down with you, buy you a beer or two and show you it is.
I would also ask the question to everyone who has mentioned the volume. Do none of you ever play with an acoustic live? Pretty sure they are less than 10 watts output.

rockmonster · October 2013

I play in rock bands and you can sit down and buy me loadsa beer but my opinion will not change because believe it or not I have tried every setup known to man (valve amp wise) over the years and NOTHING I repeat NOTHING else works for me. End of discussion! Grandma - suck eggs?......Now about them there BIG new amps?........

spacecadet · October 2013

If it works for you and gets your sound then great. I cannot and will not dispute that. What I will dispute and like I said, will be happy to tell, show and demonstrate how and why people are wrong, is that 10 watts is not giggable. Yes it depends on your situation and the other gear you have to work with but it is 100% giggable.
I like big amps as much as the next guy. I prefer lower wattage because I get (for me) a better tone at a useable volume.
The other thing to remember is it's about the front of house sound. What the punters are hearing and not what you want. I also play in a rock band and we get re booked time after time because, guess what, we sound great. Thats less to do with playing and something to do with performance but the sound is always great. The audience can hear everything and it's loud but they're not getting impaled against the wall. Some of the best gigs I have had where the most cards have been given out have been where I haven't been happy with my sound or my playing. It's not about me, or you, or the drummer or anything else. It's about the sound. If you are happy with the sound and you can control it, fantastic. If thats with a 1000 watt amp, great. If it's with a Pod direct into the desk, great. It's what works for you. You are not wrong. Unless you say you absolutely and categorically cannot gig with 10 watts.

Drew_TNBD · October 2013

spacecadet said:

Sorry, one more thing. Anyone who says they cannot gig with 10 watts needs some educating. It's not all about wattage.

Carry on.

I definitely cannot gig with 10 watts. It is all about wattage. If I was in a single guitar folk band, then yes. 10 watts would be enough. But I'm in a dual guitarist metalish band. I need 100watts. I think I'll be the expert on what I need.... kthx.

As for negativity, it's not just based on price and looks.But also feature set. These amps have a feature set that is matched by Laney amps half the price. They're not doing anything new or innovative, and they're as expensive as an Axe FX.

You'd have to be exceedingly innovative to make me switch from my Satriani JVM. In a world where even the most picky guitarists cannot tell the difference between a Kemper or Axe FX and a real amp... selling amps like these is a very tall order. Particularly in the current economic climate.

So the main reason I am so "meh" about them is to do with feature set and innovation, not price or looks.

digitalscream · October 2013

spacecadet said:

Unless you say you absolutely and categorically cannot gig with 10 watts.

To say that 10W is giggable with a couple of kW of extra outboard amplification and a good monitoring system is fine, but that's simply not the case at 90% of gigs going on around the country at any given time. That aside, I still wonder at the point of an amp which you can't get to any kind of power-section drive at home, yet can't be heard next to an acoustic instrument that will be present on the stage at every gig with any kind of cleanness.

Saying that people need "educating" is both patronising and ridiculous in this particular environment.

martinw · October 2013

Some people can gig with a 10W amp. That's undeniable. I could.

More importantly, many people can record with them, or just have them for home use, or whatever.

So it's not totally useless.

If it's not for you then don't buy it.

I notice that Victory also make 50 and 100W amps.

digitalscream · October 2013

martinw said:
More importantly, many people can record with them, or just have them for home use, or whatever.

Indeed; I think that's the main use case for these amps. If you've got a studio, or an isolation cab, I'd imagine they'd be really useful.

Danny1969 · October 2013

I gig with a 5 watt Blackstar, I'm in 3 covers bands and a Thin Lizzy tribute. I do a lot of gigs, basically since I decided to skint myself by building a recording studio I now have to rely on gigs for a wage. I did 11 gigs last month on the HT5 playing everything from Sultans of Swing to Stockholm Syndrome ... no probs at all and that's with some hard hitting drummers.

digitalscream · October 2013

Danny1969 said:

I gig with a 5 watt Blackstar, I'm in 3 covers bands and a Thin Lizzy tribute. I do a lot of gigs, basically since I decided to skint myself by building a recording studio I now have to rely on gigs for a wage. I did 11 gigs last month on the HT5 playing everything from Sultans of Swing to Stockholm Syndrome ... no probs at all and that's with some hard hitting drummers.

Aye, but from what I recall...you have a pretty damn serious PA rig and (maybe) in-ear monitoring?

spacecadet · October 2013

@Drew_fx, like I said before, it works for you. What I am saying is that you can gig with 10 watts and more importantly, you could do a metal gig with 10watts. Or less. Devin Townsend uses an Axe FX. Direct. Like the acoustic argument, much less than 10 watts! Everything he hears comes through a wedge. Thats how I work. I can't hear my amp on stage for good reason. I want the front of house sound to be as clean as possible. Any spill from the stage messes up the mix. If you have done or ever do a gig with an engineer, you will no doubt be told to turn down. This is for the mix.

I also understand about the feature set. The JVM works for you. It's what you need. My needs are different to yours. I need a clean amp that takes pedals well because all my dirt comes from carefully selected pedals that work for me. You may think they suck. I like em. The people that need a huge feature set will buy an amp with a huge feature set. I, and many others don't need that. Yes you can get a Laney with the same features for half the money or less. It may sound different. It may not be as well made. The support may not be as good. These are all factors that make a difference to the price. We all know this. What is baffling me is that people are saying 10 watts is not giggable. Stick a mic in front of it and put it through the PA. It will be alot louder than any amp that is currently on the market. I would happily get up and jam with you using a smokie amp. Your amp versus a fag packet with a speaker in miced up through the PA. I bet you a years salary I will be louder.

digitalscream · October 2013

spacecadet said: What is baffling me is that people are saying 10 watts is not giggable. Stick a mic in front of it and put it through the PA. It will be alot louder than any amp that is currently on the market. I would happily get up and jam with you using a smokie amp. Your amp versus a fag packet with a speaker in miced up through the PA. I bet you a years salary I will be louder.
As I've already said - 10W is not giggable in the vast majority of cases.

I could quite happily drown you out with my 50W Jet City if, for example, your 10W amp was going through the shitty 100W HH PA we were presented with at a gig last year. Not sure what you'd do about monitoring either, given that there weren't any...

Drew_TNBD · October 2013

spacecadet said:

@Drew_fx, like I said before, it works for you. What I am saying is that you can gig with 10 watts and more importantly, you could do a metal gig with 10watts. Or less. Devin Townsend uses an Axe FX. Direct. Like the acoustic argument, much less than 10 watts! Everything he hears comes through a wedge. Thats how I work. I can't hear my amp on stage for good reason. I want the front of house sound to be as clean as possible. Any spill from the stage messes up the mix. If you have done or ever do a gig with an engineer, you will no doubt be told to turn down. This is for the mix.

Not like I've ever done a gig in my life, so these things you're talking about... I just have no clue about it!!

That might be sarcasm

I've tried doing the whole "everything I hear is through a wedge" solution and I absolutely hate it. It sounds thin and tinny, and ruins the on stage experience. And suffice to say... it is all about that for me, given that our audiences are usually disinterested bar one or two people, or really small to begin with.

spacecadet · October 2013

The point has been made. 10 watts probably won't get you a super clean sound over a drummer. If you have a PA, and monitors you will be fine. You can gig it. THATS THE POINT. Not once have I said 10 watts is loud enough on it's own.

As far as educating people, yes it's patronising but I am seeing people that bloody well deserve it. The ignorance is astounding! "I have to have a million watts so I can hear myself or get over the drummer/ bass player/ screaming girls". Bollocks. If you don't have a PA or monitors, 10w aint cutting it. If you do it's fine. It's more than enough. I'll bet there are some of you that get to a gig and dial in your sound that you think sounds great too. It almost certainly does. BUT, what happens when everyone else kicks in. You get lost an no one can hear that incredible solo you just did. Oh, unless of course you have a million watts turned up full and thats all anyone can hear.

monquixote · October 2013

I think 10W being giggable is kind of moot as 10W amps really aren't created equal.

Unmiked the 20W Blackstar HT I had could not keep up with an acoustic drum kit being given some welly and retain some clean tone.

The 22w Supersonic I had could easily be gigged unmiked at medium venues and still have a clean tone.

The 25W class A Puretone I have is (as we discovered at Gear Fest East) is ball crushingly insanely loud

Danny1969 · October 2013

digitalscream said:

Danny1969 said:

I gig with a 5 watt Blackstar, I'm in 3 covers bands and a Thin Lizzy tribute. I do a lot of gigs, basically since I decided to skint myself by building a recording studio I now have to rely on gigs for a wage. I did 11 gigs last month on the HT5 playing everything from Sultans of Swing to Stockholm Syndrome ... no probs at all and that's with some hard hitting drummers.

Aye, but from what I recall...you have a pretty damn serious PA rig and (maybe) in-ear monitoring?

Yep I'm always mic'ed up but to be honest any PA will cope with mic'ed guitars as the guitars frequency range is similar to the human voice.

Monitoring wise I use ears in the bands I have to sing in but for the Lizzy stuff it's old school, no ears no wedge just the little Blackstar belting out out behind me.

digitalscream · October 2013

spacecadet said:

As far as educating people, yes it's patronising but I am seeing people that bloody well deserve it.

I suggest you moderate your tone. Just about everybody in this thread has 10+ years of gigging experience; you acting superior (and sounding like a stuck record without actually responding to any of the points that anybody's made in any meaningful way) just makes you look like a bit of a dick.

hotpickups · October 2013

This is all getting very boring guys. Can we just move on and talk about kit and not carrying on our disputes and prejudices

spacecadet · October 2013

I'm not trying to be a sarcastic, know it all that can anything with anything. It just makes me laugh when people make idle comments about shit they clearly haven't thought through or tried.

@digitalscream, we obviously have a different view on gigging. We do a lot of gigs all over the place. A lot of venues have installed house PA's. Guess what, we still take ours in case we get there and it's 100w HH dinosaur, or it don't work, or the desk doesn't have what we need. Think of it like this. You have your backline. Would you turn up to a gig without it because backline is provided? No. PA is part of the band sound. Like mics. A vocalist should choose a mic based on their voice. Your PA should cover your needs. If it doesn't, you need to charge more and rent one in. We quite possibly do very different gigs. My needs will be different to others needs.

Drew_TNBD · October 2013

spacecadet;48522" said:
The point has been made. 10 watts probably won't get you a super clean sound over a drummer. If you have a PA, and monitors you will be fine. You can gig it. THATS THE POINT. Not once have I said 10 watts is loud enough on it's own.

As far as educating people, yes it's patronising but I am seeing people that bloody well deserve it. The ignorance is astounding! "I have to have a million watts so I can hear myself or get over the drummer/ bass player/ screaming girls". Bollocks. If you don't have a PA or monitors, 10w aint cutting it. If you do it's fine. It's more than enough. I'll bet there are some of you that get to a gig and dial in your sound that you think sounds great too. It almost certainly does. BUT, what happens when everyone else kicks in. You get lost an no one can hear that incredible solo you just did. Oh, unless of course you have a million watts turned up full and thats all anyone can hear.

It almost sounds like you've never been in a real band before.

I mean no disrespect, but have you ever played a tiny little basement to 50 people, all of them chugging on a bottle of warm Heineken because that was all the promoter/basement hirer could get from their mums fridge?

Or have you ever played a venue where the PA is barely powerful enough to handle kick drum and vocals at the same time, let alone guitars and bass as well?

If you're playing giant stages to thousands of people, you HAVE to be mic'd up. In small clubs, it isn't necessary. We have watts for a reason - to get volume. Put the cabs on the stage, face them slightly away from the audience. Dial in your sound to fit the environment, don't just go "I usually use 11" .... that is as stupid as insisting that a 1x12 10watt combo is going to cut it in a metal band, it just isn't. The whole culture of guitar backs this up; if we didn't need 4x12s and 100 watt amps, we wouldn't want them, and if we didn't want them, they wouldn't make them

Yes. Your point has been made. But it's also been firmly blown to smithereens.

If you were a promoter and you forced me to use a small 10watt combo rather than my amp head and cab, I would not play your show. I wouldn't even put trousers on in order to call you up and say we're not playing. I'd sit on my couch in my birthday suit, telling you how unreasonable and intractable you're being, and how it's all based on the faulty premise that "well, it's good enough for me! So anyone should be able to do this, and if they can't then THEY are the idiot!! Not me!!!"

Boggles the mind.

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