ayahuasca - anyone had any experience?

Placidcasual79 · October 2023

It seems like Ayahuasca (as well as micro dosing mushrooms and ketamine) has become the hipster cause of the moment.
There are a lot of bold claims being made about the therapeutic value of ayahuasca, mushrooms and ketamine for treating issues as diverse as PTSD, opiate addiction and depression. I can find plenty of first hand testimony and also some legitimate research. I've taken mushrooms and ketamine on a couple of occasions at various festivals - but this was before the idea of these substances being therapeutic had been conceived of plus I didn't pay a great deal of attention to dosage and neglected to take detailed notes.

I am mentioning it because it was bought up on a recent episode of JRE with Jimmy Carr. They talked about a mutual friend (a comedian presumably) who'd suffered with depression for 25 years and experienced lasting relief after taking ayahuasca. They also talked about the decriminalisation of drugs in Portugal (they were talking about Lisbon specifically) and money that had been diverted from more traditional means of addressing addiction (prisons etc) into a research project that used guided ayahuasca experiences to address opiate addiction that is very successful apparently.

To my mind a radical rethink of our approach to addressing these issues is hugely overdue and I wonder if we'll look back at the era in which we took a punitive approach as being the 'dark ages'......

Sassafras · October 2023

I took some.
Funny story, half an hour after taking it I was abducted by aliens.

GavRichList · October 2023

To my knowledge it was a limited edition only chase bliss release

Placidcasual79 · October 2023

Sassafras said:

I took some.
Funny story, half an hour after taking it I was abducted by aliens.

Interesting lol.....I wonder if those two things are related?

Sporky · October 2023

We did a bit of work for a company in this field. They set up as a not-for-profit, interviewed a load of researchers, then patented other people's work and went very-much-for-profit. They turned out to be complete arseholes to deal with, unsurprisingly. The MD swore st me on the phone when I refused to tell him why the systems he'd bought elsewhere didn't work. I offered to fix them for money, but not for free.

So my view is that it might work, but the people involved are scum through and through.

oh_pollo · October 2023

Remember that sustained Ketamine use will destroy your bladder. Plenty of kids today pissing into bags because of too much horse tranquilizer. I think it's a crying shame that the demonisation of psychedelics delayed research into their quite obvious benefits in helping those with mental illness and although I've no interest in taking (any more) drugs if I could get my hands on some military grade DMT I'd be on it like shot.

Johnnyseven · October 2023

Not ayahuasca but shrooms you can buy spores and grow kits online and grow them in your airing cupboard.

Johnnyseven · October 2023

oh_pollo said:

Remember that sustained Ketamine use will destroy your bladder. Plenty of kids today pissing into bags because of too much horse tranquilizer. I think it's a crying shame that the demonisation of psychedelics delayed research into their quite obvious benefits in helping those with mental illness and although I've no interest in taking (any more) drugs if I could get my hands on some military grade DMT I'd be on it like shot.

You can extract DMT from bark at home if you fancy a go. There's vids on YT to tell you how. Not done it myself though.

TeleMaster · October 2023

Based on the studies there's no real evidence that it works beyond a placebo effect. I'm not convinced it's not just going to be one of those things we look back on in 20 years and go 'remember when people thought taking Ketamine could cure depression caused by extreme traumatic events'.

Getting any info from Joe Rogan is like Asking Jimmy Carr for tax advice.

Placidcasual79 · October 2023

Sporky said:

We did a bit of work for a company in this field. They set up as a not-for-profit, interviewed a load of researchers, then patented other people's work and went very-much-for-profit. They turned out to be complete arseholes to deal with, unsurprisingly. The MD swore st me on the phone when I refused to tell him why the systems he'd bought elsewhere didn't work. I offered to fix them for money, but not for free.

So my view is that it might work, but the people involved are scum through and through.

Hmmm - thats interesting. One of the issues with this sort of thing is that it can attract exploitative and dishonest w*nkers..... there are vulnerable people as well who could be taken advantage of.......

I am sure you can't give any details @Sporky and I wouldn't want you to - but the people you. where working with - where they offering a therapeutic service with these substances?

JerkMoans · October 2023

TeleMaster said:

... I'm not convinced it's not just going to be one of those things we look back on in 20 years and go 'remember when people thought taking Ketamine could cure depression caused by extreme traumatic events'.

Maybe don't knock it just yet...

https://www.oxfordhealth.nhs.uk/news/ketamine-may-offer-hope-to-those-with-treatment-resistant-depression/

yocky · October 2023

How To Change Your Mind is still up on Netflix which is fascinating and very convincing on the subject.

On the other hand : https://www.thestudiesshowpod.com/p/episode-4-psychedelics#details - not convinced

Simon Amstell is a fan. Cant find any footage of his stand up show about it, that was hilarious.

Placidcasual79 · October 2023

TeleMaster said:

Based on the studies there's no real evidence that it works beyond a placebo effect. I'm not convinced it's not just going to be one of those things we look back on in 20 years and go 'remember when people thought taking Ketamine could cure depression caused by extreme traumatic events'.

Getting any info from Joe Rogan is like Asking Jimmy Carr for tax advice.

Ha ha - thats a fair point @TeleMaster ;

I've taken Ketamine and mushrooms. - and there is a part of me that thinks maybe they can help you move on from damage caused by traumatic experiences by giving you a bigger newer traumatic experience lol.....

In all seriousness you might be right though. While I've read articles (not just on vice) about the potential benefits of some of these substances in specific settings and at specific doses there simply isn't a substantial evidence base - both in terms of numbers and in terms of time....... that said it's an area that certainly warrants further exploration imho

Placidcasual79 · October 2023

yocky said:

How To Change Your Mind is still up on Netflix which is fascinating and very convincing on the subject.

On the other hand : https://www.thestudiesshowpod.com/p/episode-4-psychedelics#details - not convinced

Simon Amstell is a fan. Cant find any footage of his stand up show about it, that was hilarious.

I read this guys book, part of which details his experience...... its ceratinly interesting.

Sporky · October 2023

Placidcasual79 said:

I am sure you can't give any details @Sporky and I wouldn't want you to - but the people you. where working with - where they offering a therapeutic service with these substances?

Without being too specific, no, they are focused on trials and research that will lead to things they can patent, with the aim of then scumming the patents to skim money from anyone trying to use what are natural substances for therapy or medicine.

Their patents appear to be under attack on the prior art basis (ie they patented something that existed before they did). Apologies for any mangling of legal terms.

TeleMaster · October 2023

Placidcasual79 said:

TeleMaster said:

Based on the studies there's no real evidence that it works beyond a placebo effect. I'm not convinced it's not just going to be one of those things we look back on in 20 years and go 'remember when people thought taking Ketamine could cure depression caused by extreme traumatic events'.

Getting any info from Joe Rogan is like Asking Jimmy Carr for tax advice.

Ha ha - thats a fair point @TeleMaster ;

I've taken Ketamine and mushrooms. - and there is a part of me that thinks maybe they can help you move on from damage caused by traumatic experiences by giving you a bigger newer traumatic experience lol.....

In all seriousness you might be right though. While I've read articles (not just on vice) about the potential benefits of some of these substances in specific settings and at specific doses there simply isn't a substantial evidence base - both in terms of numbers and in terms of time....... that said it's an area that certainly warrants further exploration imho

Sure, lots of people may feel like they have new experiences, ego deaths and all that but lots alsonhave really bad experiences, trips, psychosis, getting themselves into K holes and so on.

I agree, it needs more evidence to either prove whether it can help people so it can be utilised properly in that regard, or disproven so people stop taking drugs habitually wrongly in the hope that it cures their illness when they should be getting proper therapy.

Kittyfrisk · October 2023

Johnnyseven said:

Not ayahuasca but shrooms you can buy spores and grow kits online and grow them in your airing cupboard.

How old school, an airing cupboard.
As a bloke & presumably not a heating engineer, do you know if you actually have one?

CavemanGrogg · October 2023

Timothy Leary did a hell of a lot of extremely good research in this field long before he went all out dippy hippy with his ''turn on, tune in, drop out'' nonsense. It's really worth searching out and reading all of his research from his days at Harvard as a professor.

TeleMaster · October 2023

Kittyfrisk said:

Johnnyseven said:

Not ayahuasca but shrooms you can buy spores and grow kits online and grow them in your airing cupboard.

How old school, an airing cupboard.
As a bloke & presumably not a heating engineer, do you know if you actually have one?

You used to be able to get shrooms down the market when I was at school in the 90's. They used to sell really potent stuff to schoolkids just straight from the stall, which is mental when you think about it now.

elstoof · October 2023

They were legal back then as long as they were fresh and not dried

TeleMaster · October 2023

elstoof said:

They were legal back then as long as they were fresh and not dried

Yep. I remember getting some when I was 13. I was absolutely messed up for final period.

JezWynd · October 2023

There has been research into the use of LSD to deal with alcoholism and it was very positive iirc. It makes sense to me that a chemical that opens up receptive pathways could have a positive impact on a body that is slowly killing itself with alcohol - LSD could make the user aware of the absurdity of their behaviour. Such a cure might be long lasting as the 'lightbulb moment' comes from within.

Johnnyseven · October 2023

Kittyfrisk said:

Johnnyseven said:

Not ayahuasca but shrooms you can buy spores and grow kits online and grow them in your airing cupboard.

How old school, an airing cupboard.
As a bloke & presumably not a heating engineer, do you know if you actually have one?

I've got a cupboard with a hot water tank in it and shelves that my wifer stores sheets and towels, that's an airing cupboard right?

Johnnyseven · October 2023

JezWynd said:

There has been research into the use of LSD to deal with alcoholism and it was very positive iirc. It makes sense to me that a chemical that opens up receptive pathways could have a positive impact on a body that is slowly killing itself with alcohol - LSD could make the user aware of the absurdity of their behaviour. Such a cure might be long lasting as the 'lightbulb moment' comes from within.

Also research into using MDMA for therapy fot PTSD I think.

Bungle1 · October 2023

I would go as far as saying Psilocybin saved my life but these molecules have to be treated with respect. I think these molecules are going to be game changers for mental health treatments in the next 10 years and they will be very much needed. Some companies are working on reducing the trip length of the longer-acting molecules so they can be used within clinical settings a bit more efficiently.

If the conversation can be had around them in an adult way and is spearheaded by people who are in this for the right reasons i.e. not the typical pharma lobby etc, I personally believe that psychedelics could change the world in a positive way. There are good signs, check out Doug Drysdale who runs the company Cybin for a good example.

CavemanGrogg · October 2023

JezWynd said:

There has been research into the use of LSD to deal with alcoholism and it was very positive iirc. It makes sense to me that a chemical that opens up receptive pathways could have a positive impact on a body that is slowly killing itself with alcohol - LSD could make the user aware of the absurdity of their behaviour. Such a cure might be long lasting as the 'lightbulb moment' comes from within.

And yet, friends have told me - not that I've tried it personally or have any experience with it as I'm a good boy who doesn't do these things lives the straight edge lifestyle and am very against recreational drug use, use vodka to turn flints, into microdots. And use copious amounts of weed for the ''come down'' from hallucinogenics.

Kittyfrisk · October 2023

Johnnyseven said:

Kittyfrisk said:

Johnnyseven said:

Not ayahuasca but shrooms you can buy spores and grow kits online and grow them in your airing cupboard.

How old school, an airing cupboard.
As a bloke & presumably not a heating engineer, do you know if you actually have one?

I've got a cupboard with a hot water tank in it and shelves that my wifer stores sheets and towels, that's an airing cupboard right?

Fair enough. The majority of CH systems these days are condensing boilers that don't have tanks.
Take care to ensure that the humidity is kept higher for your shrooms than the sheets & towels might like

CavemanGrogg · October 2023

Johnnyseven said:

Not ayahuasca but shrooms you can buy spores and grow kits online and grow them in your airing cupboard.

It's far far easier to do it under your kitchen sink, than in an airing cupboard, you just hang the bag - the spore kits are basically a sponge that you place in a bag after adding food and spores to it, from the U-bend on the drain of your kitchen sink.

hollywoodrox · October 2023

Placidcasual79 said:

It seems like Ayahuasca (as well as micro dosing mushrooms and ketamine) has become the hipster cause of the moment.
There are a lot of bold claims being made about the therapeutic value of ayahuasca, mushrooms and ketamine for treating issues as diverse as PTSD, opiate addiction and depression. I can find plenty of first hand testimony and also some legitimate research. I've taken mushrooms and ketamine on a couple of occasions at various festivals - but this was before the idea of these substances being therapeutic had been conceived of plus I didn't pay a great deal of attention to dosage and neglected to take detailed notes.

I am mentioning it because it was bought up on a recent episode of JRE with Jimmy Carr. They talked about a mutual friend (a comedian presumably) who'd suffered with depression for 25 years and experienced lasting relief after taking ayahuasca. They also talked about the decriminalisation of drugs in Portugal (they were talking about Lisbon specifically) and money that had been diverted from more traditional means of addressing addiction (prisons etc) into a research project that used guided ayahuasca experiences to address opiate addiction that is very successful apparently.

To my mind a radical rethink of our approach to addressing these issues is hugely overdue and I wonder if we'll look back at the era in which we took a punitive approach as being the 'dark ages'......

I was always put off as I have a phobia of vomiting and ayahuasca I think is supposed to bring on the most violent outbursts of diahorrea & sickness ever . I think DMT is the active ingredient so I’m not sure if this can be taken without the side effects but the experiences do sound absolutely amazing . I’d love to try it or acid in a safe environment if no side effects

hollywoodrox · October 2023

Johnnyseven said:

oh_pollo said:

Remember that sustained Ketamine use will destroy your bladder. Plenty of kids today pissing into bags because of too much horse tranquilizer. I think it's a crying shame that the demonisation of psychedelics delayed research into their quite obvious benefits in helping those with mental illness and although I've no interest in taking (any more) drugs if I could get my hands on some military grade DMT I'd be on it like shot.

You can extract DMT from bark at home if you fancy a go. There's vids on YT to tell you how. Not done it myself though.

Someone I know said he’d done this I thought he was talking out his arse but apparently it’s true

hollywoodrox · October 2023

In Stings Biographies he tells of his use of hayauasca in the Amazon

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