Kevin Keegan

Timcito · October 2023

Open_G said:

I’m not averse in the slightest to the female commentators and pundits and they have huge knowledge of the games they are working on. I have a bit of an issue with the overuse of superlatives. “AMAZING” and “UNBELIEVABLE” seem to be troped out with an over the top regularity, particularly in the football and rugby worlds.. The cricket ones are generally excellent, as are the golf ones. I wonder if it’s an effort to be the female equivalents of the likes of Motson and Davies.

Stunna female commentators for male beefcake sports are common here in the US, too. I don't know, it just seems so staged and obsequious to me: "Look at our network; see how inclusive we are!"

Sure, there's no reason why a woman can't be knowledgeable about hard, physical sports played by men, but the reality is that the vast majority of women are not into such games, and it is relatively unlikely we will meet a woman who is in everyday life. Why then have them as spokesperson for these sports? It seems contrived and inauthentic to me. Since men are the main supporters of their own sports by a huge margin, it makes sense to use men as the commentators.

Offset · October 2023

Fingers657 said:

I don’t like Kevin Keegan.
Years ago he was bashed up in a lay-by in his car and the Sun had the real story why on the press ready to print until it got pulled.
They did actually print off a few but most of those were destroyed.
Im surprised that story has never come out in this day of every one telling historical stuff.

...and I hope you're not about to repeat it here :-)

Offset · October 2023

TTony said:

Offset said:

However... it's merely clumsy and a bit dumb and hardly worth the opprobrium and shrieks of outrage and it seems to be attracting.

But people are offended! It is outrageous.

Someone of a bygone era has expressed a view, an opinion, that is not consistent with current day accepted/expected (by some) views or opinions. It is simply not acceptable.

He must submit himself for re-programming or be silenced.

It's all getting a bit 1984 ... be careful what you say, be careful what you think, be careful what others might think you're going to say ...

Put it this way... if a female footballer said that a male pundit couldn't (paraphrasing here) empathise with aspects of the female game, no-one would bat an eyelid - because the statement would largely be correct. Doesn't mean Keegan isn't a twat mind you, but still...

TTony · October 2023

Fingers657 said:

and the Sun had the real story why on the press ready to print until it got pulled.

Given that particular publication's long-standing very distant relationship with reporting veracity, I doubt we missed very much.

Philly_Q · October 2023

I think he's a dopey, out-of-touch old man who should be a little more self-aware. He acknowledges "it may not be a view shared", so perhaps he should've just kept it to himself.

Most of the sports coverage I follow is on the radio, so the aforementioned "above average attractiveness" of presenters, commentators and pundits doesn't really come into it. I just think the likes of Kelly Cates, Juliette Ferrington, Eleanor Oldroyd, Vicki Sparks, Karen Bardsley and Izzy Christiansen are very good at what they do.

DefaultM · October 2023

Moron. Look at something like the UFC. They had a woman commentating on a PPV last month. I thought perhaps because it's fighting there would be comments like he's made here because its manly and tough, but everyone said she was great.
Someone put his opponent in a very rare submission, and she knew what it was called when the guys just sat there saying nothing.

Just because someone's got a fanny doesn't mean they can't have an interest in something and talk about it.

DrCornelius · October 2023

Philly_Q said:

I think he's a dopey, out-of-touch old man who should be a little more self-aware. He acknowledges "it may not be a view shared", so perhaps he should've just kept it to himself.

But then surely we are headed to a world we’re there is a single viewpoint that everyone has to stick to if they want to work in the media

Philly_Q · October 2023

DrCornelius said:

Philly_Q said:

I think he's a dopey, out-of-touch old man who should be a little more self-aware. He acknowledges "it may not be a view shared", so perhaps he should've just kept it to himself.

But then surely we are headed to a world we’re there is a single viewpoint that everyone has to stick to if they want to work in the media

I'm not saying there should be a single viewpoint on everything. I just think that this particular notion, of women being "allowed" to commentate on men's football (not his words, but it's kind of what's being discussed), is a subject that isn't even worthy of debate. It's not a "hot topic", it's just bollocks.

It's almost like saying Planet Earth was remiss in not devoting a couple of episodes to a serious discussion of Flat-Earth theory.

Besides, does Keegan even work in the media? He was speaking "at a public event in Bristol".

swiller · October 2023

Keegan entitled to his opinions. Its not massively contraversial. Cancel culture on overdrive again.
I find women football pundits a calming influence on the mens game in general, way better than roy keane spouting shit about being a warrior etc. Carragher/g neville another pair of tw@s.

There is a case for having pundits who have played at big levels within that realm, so women in womens game and men in mens. But I think male pundits look more out of place in womens game than vice versa.
Do think lineker should get sacked and be replaced with Kylie Minogue as its just a hosting job for MOTD. But thats cos im a dirty old sod.

Vintage65 · October 2023

AK99 said:
Is it the case perhaps that he's making the point that the pace and physicality of the men's game is different to that of the women's game, and because of that the tactical positioning and judgement calls are somewhat different ?

Didn't a reigning women's World Cup winning team lose 5-2 to a local boys U15 side? Anyway, I'm staying out of this one

suspiciousminds · October 2023

I dont think its massively contraversial what he has said, but it doesnt surprise me being from that 70’s generation.
The more women “pundits” we have the better as far as i’m concerned because by and large we have had to put up with the same faces spounting drivel for years.
i couldnt stand listening to Lawrenson, Hanson etc and how Roy Keane keeps being used is beyond me with his macho arrogant comments.
About time things changed.

p90fool · October 2023

suspiciousminds said:

I dont think its massively contraversial what he has said, but it doesnt surprise me being from that 70’s generation.
The more women “pundits” we have the better as far as i’m concerned because by and large we have had to put up with the same faces spounting drivel for years.
i couldnt stand listening to Lawrenson, Hanson etc and how Roy Keane keeps being used is beyond me with his macho arrogant comments.
About time things changed.

Exactly, there are just good pundits and bad pundits.
The female pundit in the France-Italy rugby last night was excellent, insightful and technically analytical, whereas Ugo Monye spent five minutes banging on about how Italy were readjusting well to their sin binning.
There was nobody in the sin bin as it was a penalty only offence, but other two didn't have the heart to correct the thick twat.

It does seem to be standard now to have a commentator, an analyst and an ex star player in the broadcast team, but a lot of the stars like Monye don't really even bother paying attention, he's probably fucking around on Facebook on his phone.

Dallaglio is even worse, when the ref is explaining a game-changing decision to the captains he blathers all over it about something else entirely, then plays audible and painful catch up while the rest of the world already knows what's happened.

Bad punditry is definitely not gender specific.

RobDavies · October 2023

As someone who watches a lot of football, there’s good and bad women pundits. I have no issue with the good ones.

Karen Carney, Courtney Sweetman-Kirk and Alex Scott are all very knowledgable and have started to relax a bit in front of the cameras. Watching Alex Scott destroy dinosaur Paul Ince on Football Focus a few years ago was a thing of beauty.

Jill Scott is terrible - and would appear to have carved a career in tele because she won I’m A Celeb and she’s ‘funny’ because she called someone a fucking prick in a major international final. Despite a fantastic football career, Fara Williams is embarrassing in front of the cameras.

There does seem to be a desperate attempt to have at least one woman on every broadcast, and I think that is the problem - the constant craving to appear diverse and tick boxes. It’s patronising to say the least.

Keegan should probably keep his trap shut - although until this week, everyone had forgotten about him so….

Timcito · October 2023

DrCornelius said:

Philly_Q said:

I think he's a dopey, out-of-touch old man who should be a little more self-aware. He acknowledges "it may not be a view shared", so perhaps he should've just kept it to himself.

But then surely we are headed to a world we’re there is a single viewpoint that everyone has to stick to if they want to work in the media

A tendency among older guys on forums is to play 'the cool dad.' Not saying it's happened here, but I think there can be an impulse to seek online approval and acceptance by condoning whatever fashionable stuff younger generations are saying and doing.

Philly_Q · October 2023

Timcito said:

DrCornelius said:

Philly_Q said:

I think he's a dopey, out-of-touch old man who should be a little more self-aware. He acknowledges "it may not be a view shared", so perhaps he should've just kept it to himself.

But then surely we are headed to a world we’re there is a single viewpoint that everyone has to stick to if they want to work in the media

A tendency among older guys on forums is to play 'the cool dad.' Not saying it's happened here, but I think there can be an impulse to seek online approval and acceptance by condoning whatever fashionable stuff younger generations are saying and doing.

I may be totally misunderstanding what you are talking about, but....

As you've said, you're "not saying it's happened here", but if it was, I'm not anybody's dad and I don't give a flying fuck if anyone thinks I'm cool or not. Seeking online approval and acceptance? No.

Is it just possible that sometimes "younger generations" are saying and doing stuff not because it's fashionable, but because it's right? I'd be more than happy never to hear another sexist, misogynist viewpoint. I'd be delighted to never hear another racist or homophobic joke. I can even live without mild jocularity based on ethnic or national stereotypes. It's not 1978 any more.

Timcito · October 2023

Philly_Q said:

Timcito said:

DrCornelius said:

Philly_Q said:

I think he's a dopey, out-of-touch old man who should be a little more self-aware. He acknowledges "it may not be a view shared", so perhaps he should've just kept it to himself.

But then surely we are headed to a world we’re there is a single viewpoint that everyone has to stick to if they want to work in the media

A tendency among older guys on forums is to play 'the cool dad.' Not saying it's happened here, but I think there can be an impulse to seek online approval and acceptance by condoning whatever fashionable stuff younger generations are saying and doing.

I may be totally misunderstanding what you are talking about, but....

As you've said, you're "not saying it's happened here", but if it was, I'm not anybody's dad and I don't give a flying fuck if anyone thinks I'm cool or not. Seeking online approval and acceptance? No.

Is it just possible that sometimes "younger generations" are saying and doing stuff not because it's fashionable, but because it's right? .

Of course it is. However, standing in judgement of trends, particularly by Boomers and Gen Xers, is not well seen online. Doing so can leave someone vulnerable to exclusion from 'da boyz' and invite quite strong verbal attack.

Again, I'm not saying that this was happening here; I was responding to Cornelius' point about a world in which everyone feels constrained to hold the same point of view. Online forums are often a shining example of this kind of binary, simplistic thinking where there is a 'right' answer to contentious stuff and woe betide anyone who rocks the boat.

Wazmeister · October 2023

Timcito said:

Philly_Q said:

Timcito said:

DrCornelius said:

Philly_Q said:

I think he's a dopey, out-of-touch old man who should be a little more self-aware. He acknowledges "it may not be a view shared", so perhaps he should've just kept it to himself.

But then surely we are headed to a world we’re there is a single viewpoint that everyone has to stick to if they want to work in the media

A tendency among older guys on forums is to play 'the cool dad.' Not saying it's happened here, but I think there can be an impulse to seek online approval and acceptance by condoning whatever fashionable stuff younger generations are saying and doing.

I may be totally misunderstanding what you are talking about, but....

As you've said, you're "not saying it's happened here", but if it was, I'm not anybody's dad and I don't give a flying fuck if anyone thinks I'm cool or not. Seeking online approval and acceptance? No.

Is it just possible that sometimes "younger generations" are saying and doing stuff not because it's fashionable, but because it's right? .

Of course it is. However, standing in judgement of trends, particularly by Boomers and Gen Xers, is not well seen online. Doing so can leave someone vulnerable to exclusion from 'da boyz' and invite quite strong verbal attack.

Again, I'm not saying that this was happening here; I was responding to Comelius' point about a world in which everyone feels constrained to hold the same point of view. Online forums are often a shining example of this kind of binary, simplistic thinking where there is a 'right' answer to contentious stuff and woe betide anyone who rocks the boat.

Bingo.

Pjon · October 2023

p90fool said:

suspiciousminds said:

I dont think its massively contraversial what he has said, but it doesnt surprise me being from that 70’s generation.
The more women “pundits” we have the better as far as i’m concerned because by and large we have had to put up with the same faces spounting drivel for years.
i couldnt stand listening to Lawrenson, Hanson etc and how Roy Keane keeps being used is beyond me with his macho arrogant comments.
About time things changed.

Exactly, there are just good pundits and bad pundits.
The female pundit in the France-Italy rugby last night was excellent, insightful and technically analytical, whereas Ugo Monye spent five minutes banging on about how Italy were readjusting well to their sin binning.
There was nobody in the sin bin as it was a penalty only offence, but other two didn't have the heart to correct the thick twat.

It does seem to be standard now to have a commentator, an analyst and an ex star player in the broadcast team, but a lot of the stars like Monye don't really even bother paying attention, he's probably fucking around on Facebook on his phone.

Dallaglio is even worse, when the ref is explaining a game-changing decision to the captains he blathers all over it about something else entirely, then plays audible and painful catch up while the rest of the world already knows what's happened.

Bad punditry is definitely not gender specific.

Agreed. A lot of the expert ex-players are ancient, in sporting and real terms, and so far removed from the modern version of their sport that their opinions have as little relevance as mine or yours. Less than a female athlete who has played recently, perhaps. Dallaglio retired 15 years ago, and is famous for events of 20 years ago. The sport had only just become professional, and was very different from what we watch these days. Jiffy Davies is even older, and played professional rugby union for 2 years, 25 years ago! Yet, his opinion holds weight, for some bizarre reason.

munckee · October 2023

What @RobDavies said.

Timcito · October 2023

Pjon said:8
Agreed. A lot of the expert ex-players are ancient, in sporting and real terms, and so far removed from the modern version of their sport that their opinions have as little relevance as mine or yours. Less than a female athlete who has played recently, perhaps. Dallaglio retired 15 years ago, and is famous for events of 20 years ago. The sport had only just become professional, and was very different from what we watch these days. Jiffy Davies is even older, and played professional rugby union for 2 years, 25 years ago! Yet, his opinion holds weight, for some bizarre reason.

McEnroe played at a time when wooden rackets were used. Does that mean his expertise with tennis ended with whatever was happening in the era of wooden rackets?

That has not been my impression.

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