Kevin Keegan

GSPBASSES · October 2023

Kevin Keegan what a dickhead, used to be my footballing hero, now gone down in my estimation, can't believe anyone can have that attitude towards women in this day and age. Come on Kevin what bloody century have you come from? Do you want to take the vote away from women as well?

bloodandtears · October 2023

There will be many that agree with him.. but the argument that a female professional footballer can't have an opinion or have shared in-game experiences as the males is ludicrous and out-dated.

thecolourbox · October 2023

What an absolute tit

S56035 · October 2023

What's he done?

S56035 · October 2023

Is this what you're losing your shit over? https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/05/kevin-keegan-asked-to-keep-his-opinions-to-himself-on-female-football-pundits

Hardly the most controversial opinion in the world even if he is wrong.

Incidentally watching Micheal Owen getting schooled on a goal keeping error by Rachel Brown-Finnis last night was brilliant.

roundthebend · October 2023

I saw a headline and thought "what a dick". Now I've read an article:
https://news.sky.com/story/kevin-keegan-says-he-doesnt-like-lady-footballers-talking-about-england-mens-team-12977463

He says this:

"But if I see an England lady footballer saying about England against Scotland at Wembley and she's saying, 'If I would have been in that position I would have done this,' I don't think it's quite the same. I don't think it crosses over that much."

I think that's a more reasonable statement. He's saying that a female England player can't really have a grasp on what it's like to be in the position of a male England player in a big match. I think he does harbour a misogynistic attitude though, because he says he doesn't want to hear those opinions. That's not good in my book.

EricTheWeary · October 2023

Taken in context it doesn't seem that bad, just a bit of lack of awareness of how it would be seen. The issue seems to be more that people are using it as an excuse to 'bash' the women's game or Keegan himself.

Kilgore · October 2023

TTony · October 2023

bloodandtears said:

There will be many that agree with him.. but the argument that a female professional footballer can't have an opinion or have shared in-game experiences as the males is ludicrous and out-dated.

I've been watching a few games on the old BT Sport channel recently.

The presentation team is - typically - led by a female pitch-side with a couple of retired (male) footballers to give the opinions, etc, with a similar set-up in the studio.

My observation is that the female presenters are, without exception, of "above average attractiveness".

Now, they can read the script (out loud), know where the camera is, and can hold a microphone, so they're not in front of the camera *purely* on the basis of their looks. But given that - I'm assuming - the watching audience is predominantly male, I wonder when we'll see some female presenters that fall below that average level.

crunchman · October 2023

Female commentators and pundits are fine when they are good. Isa Guha on the cricket is very good, for instance. Some of the others seem to be there because they are women though, and there seems to be a quota to fill.

None of the cricket ones are as bad as Michael Vaughan though.

McToot · October 2023

crunchman said:

Female commentators and pundits are fine when they are good. Isa Guha on the cricket is very good, for instance. Some of the others seem to be there because they are women though, and there seems to be a quota to fill.

None of the cricket ones are as bad as Michael Vaughan though.

Wis'd on Vaughny. Beautiful cricketer but an embarrassment to punditry. Seems to think that the world needs another Boycott.

AK99 · October 2023

roundthebend said:

I saw a headline and thought "what a dick". Now I've read an article:
https://news.sky.com/story/kevin-keegan-says-he-doesnt-like-lady-footballers-talking-about-england-mens-team-12977463

He says this:
"But if I see an England lady footballer saying about England against Scotland at Wembley and she's saying, 'If I would have been in that position I would have done this,' I don't think it's quite the same. I don't think it crosses over that much."

I think that's a more reasonable statement. He's saying that a female England player can't really have a grasp on what it's like to be in the position of a male England player in a big match. I think he does harbour a misogynistic attitude though, because he says he doesn't want to hear those opinions. That's not good in my book.

Is it the case perhaps that he's making the point that the pace and physicality of the men's game is different to that of the women's game, and because of that the tactical positioning and judgement calls are somewhat different ?

bloodandtears · October 2023

TTony said:

bloodandtears said:

There will be many that agree with him.. but the argument that a female professional footballer can't have an opinion or have shared in-game experiences as the males is ludicrous and out-dated.

I've been watching a few games on the old BT Sport channel recently.

The presentation team is - typically - led by a female pitch-side with a couple of retired (male) footballers to give the opinions, etc, with a similar set-up in the studio.

My observation is that the female presenters are, without exception, of "above average attractiveness".

Now, they can read the script (out loud), know where the camera is, and can hold a microphone, so they're not in front of the camera *purely* on the basis of their looks. But given that - I'm assuming - the watching audience is predominantly male, I wonder when we'll see some female presenters that fall below that average level.

noted with regards presenters.. I was referring to pundits and I think Kev was too...

AK99 said:

roundthebend said:

I saw a headline and thought "what a dick". Now I've read an article:
https://news.sky.com/story/kevin-keegan-says-he-doesnt-like-lady-footballers-talking-about-england-mens-team-12977463

He says this:
"But if I see an England lady footballer saying about England against Scotland at Wembley and she's saying, 'If I would have been in that position I would have done this,' I don't think it's quite the same. I don't think it crosses over that much."

I think that's a more reasonable statement. He's saying that a female England player can't really have a grasp on what it's like to be in the position of a male England player in a big match. I think he does harbour a misogynistic attitude though, because he says he doesn't want to hear those opinions. That's not good in my book.

Is it the case perhaps that he's making the point that the pace and physicality of the men's game is different to that of the women's game, and because of that the tactical positioning and judgement calls are somewhat different ?

That's how I interpret his views.. but it's a dangerous stance these days

Sassafras · October 2023

The Laurence Fox perspective.

thecolourbox · October 2023

But when somebody says "If that were me, I'd have..." surely that's not to be taken literally? They just mean "The ideal thing in my opinion would have been if...". Like, I might say, oh if it were me in charge of HS2 or Wilko or whatever I'd have done this or that or whatever but it's obviously hypothetical.

Sassafras · October 2023

I've seen a few women boxing commentators who analyse the fights intelligently without all the cliche ridden drivel of the male commentators.
As far I know, none of these women have been in the ring with Golovkin or Canelo yet they still seem to know what's going on.

axisus · October 2023

I have to admit that every time I see Kev's name I just think of his awkward "I would love it" interview when Sir Alex got him all riled up!

I have no problem with women talking about football, to be honest I like it. Also I don't care in the least if they are attractive or not, I just like interesting opinions or worthwhile analysis.

beed84 · October 2023

Although I think his logic is along the lines of men's and women's football being categorically unequal, hence his remarks, I don't think it's difficult for a man or a woman who has experience in the game to offer a qualified opinion on players knocking a ball about a pitch. Not wanting to hear it based on their gender is another thing entirely.

Kilgore · October 2023

Kev's got a point.

Women players don't really understand when it's advantageous to fall over in apparent agony looking for a free kick or penalty.

Open_G · October 2023

I’m not averse in the slightest to the female commentators and pundits and they have huge knowledge of the games they are working on. I have a bit of an issue with the overuse of superlatives. “AMAZING” and “UNBELIEVABLE” seem to be troped out with an over the top regularity, particularly in the football and rugby worlds.. The cricket ones are generally excellent, as are the golf ones. I wonder if it’s an effort to be the female equivalents of the likes of Motson and Davies.

tony99 · October 2023

Deport him!

Kittyfrisk · October 2023

To be fair he probably knows a bit more about perms than most modern women...

p90fool · October 2023

roundthebend said:

He says this:
"But if I see an England lady footballer saying about England against Scotland at Wembley and she's saying, 'If I would have been in that position I would have done this,' I don't think it's quite the same. I don't think it crosses over that much."

I think that's a more reasonable statement. He's saying that a female England player can't really have a grasp on what it's like to be in the position of a male England player in a big match.

The Lionesses just played in a final in front of 75,000 people with another fourteen million watching at home, are you seriously suggesting that's not a big match?

I suspect to some men it'll always be just some girls having a kickabout, just like plucky little Serena having a bit of a go at tennis, bless her.

barnstorm · October 2023

p90fool said:

roundthebend said:

The Lionesses just played in a final in front of 75,000 people with another fourteen million watching at home, are you seriously suggesting that's not a big match?

I suspect to some men it'll always be just some girls having a kickabout, just like plucky little Serena having a bit of a go at tennis, bless her.

I think ladies' football just suffers from the fact that it has comparatively little history as an elite sport.

Even the most backwards blokes don't tend to argue there shouldn't be women on the broadcast/commentary for men's tennis or athletics or any number of other sports. (Provided they're good, obviously; really enjoyable female pundits and commentators are as rare as really enjoyable male ones!)

I assume ladies' football will get there in time, too – and probably quite quickly if the current momentum is maintained.

Kebabkid · October 2023

Offset · October 2023

I was expecting to spit feathers over this, especially since I've always thought Keegan was a bit of a twat.

However... it's merely clumsy and a bit dumb and hardly worth the opprobrium and shrieks of outrage it seems to be attracting. In truth it's no worse than I'd expect from him. His crimes against tonsorial styling are far more serious.

TTony · October 2023

Offset said:

However... it's merely clumsy and a bit dumb and hardly worth the opprobrium and shrieks of outrage and it seems to be attracting.

But people are offended! It is outrageous.

Someone of a bygone era has expressed a view, an opinion, that is not consistent with current day accepted/expected (by some) views or opinions. It is simply not acceptable.

He must submit himself for re-programming or be silenced.

It's all getting a bit 1984 ... be careful what you say, be careful what you think, be careful what others might think you're going to say ...

DrCornelius · October 2023

He must have known that his comments would provoke outrage in some quarters so hats off to him for being honest - it’s easier nowadays to follow the herd rather than risk being cancelled. I don’t agree with him but I’m glad he said it for the sake of balance

Fingers657 · October 2023

I don’t like Kevin Keegan.
Years ago he was bashed up in a lay-by in his car and the Sun had the real story why on the press ready to print until it got pulled.
They did actually print off a few but most of those were destroyed.
Im surprised that story has never come out in this day of every one telling historical stuff.

roundthebend · October 2023

p90fool said:

roundthebend said:

He says this:
"But if I see an England lady footballer saying about England against Scotland at Wembley and she's saying, 'If I would have been in that position I would have done this,' I don't think it's quite the same. I don't think it crosses over that much."

I think that's a more reasonable statement. He's saying that a female England player can't really have a grasp on what it's like to be in the position of a male England player in a big match.

The Lionesses just played in a final in front of 75,000 people with another fourteen million watching at home, are you seriously suggesting that's not a big match?

I suspect to some men it'll always be just some girls having a kickabout, just like plucky little Serena having a bit of a go at tennis, bless her.

It's difficult to get my view across, but I'm not one of those guys you're referring to in the last sentence.
The women's World Cup final was indeed a big game, but it's different to England vs Scotland in the men's game - not because they're men, but because of the history and the rivalry level of interest in terms of advertising, sponsorship, business, TV coverage etc. it just isn't on the same magnitude. That's not to say "women aren't as good or as relevant as men" it's to say "it's very difficult for anyone to have a qualified valuable opinion if they haven't been on that stage themselves".

Rob1742 · October 2023

This thread highlights how people look at a sound bite and take it as the truth. A media outlet has to do nothing more than throw a sentence out there and the public just hang onto it without questioning it.

No wonder we are in the state we are in as a country when people believe what they read, and even worse don’t actually read the article.

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