Nearly NGD. Parlour & Lowden discussion

WafflesOnHorseback · October 2023

Well almost NGD. A couple of weeks ago I got this Santa Cruz parlour. Not owned a parlour before but always found the size intriguing. It is really enjoyable to play and has a warm, mellow sound which is quite a contrast to my other acoustics.

Spec: Custom 1929 O Model with Figured Mahogany top, standard Mahogany back/sides, Adirondack bracing hot hide glue, Maple body/fingerboard binding, single abalone rosette, low profile neck and gold Waverley tuners with Ebony knobs.

Some pics below including a couple of the top.

Image: https://i.ibb.co/jzFP5h5/1929-0-1.png

Image: https://i.ibb.co/zh2ftVn/model-o-2.jpg

Image: https://i.ibb.co/VDPHy9W/wood.jpg

thomasross20 · October 2023

Niiiice!!
I think hog's natural "thrum" suits parlours perfectly as it really adds a character to the small box. Absolutely fantastic NGD!

WafflesOnHorseback · October 2023

thomasross20 said:

Niiiice!!
I think hog's natural "thrum" suits parlours perfectly as it really adds a character to the small box. Absolutely fantastic NGD!

Thanks Thomas. Yes, absolutely agree about hog!

Tannin · October 2023

This thread should come with a NSFW warning. That's just glorious. I'd love to play it.

GTC · October 2023

Great NGD - I absolutely love Santa Cruz guitars.

Soupman · October 2023

Stunning looker.

Kilgore · October 2023

That is gorgeous!!

WafflesOnHorseback · October 2023

GTC said:

Great NGD - I absolutely love Santa Cruz guitars.

Oooh, me too. I really admire RH's approach to guitar making and it's fascinating to listen to him talk about wood. I don't know if it's a psychological thing or not but every SC I have played has had a special quality and just wants to be played - err if you see what I mean!

GTC · October 2023

WafflesOnHorseback said:

GTC said:

Great NGD - I absolutely love Santa Cruz guitars.

Oooh, me too. I really admire RH's approach to guitar making and it's fascinating to listen to him talk about wood. I don't know if it's a psychological thing or not but every SC I have played has had a special quality and just wants to be played - err if you see what I mean!

I agree - from personal experience. I've got quite a few fine guitars and have experienced a lot more - but my Santa Cruz 000 12 fretter is at a different level. Still kicking myself years later for hesitating over a left-handed Eric Skye - and missing out.

WafflesOnHorseback · October 2023

GTC said:

WafflesOnHorseback said:

GTC said:

Great NGD - I absolutely love Santa Cruz guitars.

Oooh, me too. I really admire RH's approach to guitar making and it's fascinating to listen to him talk about wood. I don't know if it's a psychological thing or not but every SC I have played has had a special quality and just wants to be played - err if you see what I mean!

I agree - from personal experience. I've got quite a few fine guitars and have experienced a lot more - but my Santa Cruz 000 12 fretter is at a different level. Still kicking myself years later for hesitating over a left-handed Eric Skye - and missing out.

Ahh the 000 12 fretter is magnificent! I have no idea why SC aren't more widely known and appreciated in the UK (and as far as I can tell, there are only 2 SC retailers).

malcolmkindness · October 2023

WafflesOnHorseback said:

GTC said:

WafflesOnHorseback said:

GTC said:

Great NGD - I absolutely love Santa Cruz guitars.

Oooh, me too. I really admire RH's approach to guitar making and it's fascinating to listen to him talk about wood. I don't know if it's a psychological thing or not but every SC I have played has had a special quality and just wants to be played - err if you see what I mean!

I agree - from personal experience. I've got quite a few fine guitars and have experienced a lot more - but my Santa Cruz 000 12 fretter is at a different level. Still kicking myself years later for hesitating over a left-handed Eric Skye - and missing out.

Ahh the 000 12 fretter is magnificent! I have no idea why SC aren't more widely known and appreciated in the UK (and as far as I can tell, there are only 2 SC retailers).

I think the reason that they are not more popular on this side of the Atlantic is that they are very expensive. They are lovely guitars but not many people can afford them.

Tannin · October 2023

malcolmkindness said:

WafflesOnHorseback said:

Ahh the 000 12 fretter is magnificent! I have no idea why SC aren't more widely known and appreciated in the UK (and as far as I can tell, there are only 2 SC retailers).

I think the reason that they are not more popular on this side of the Atlantic is that they are very expensive. They are lovely guitars but not many people can afford them.

Yes. Same here in Oz.

It doesn't help that there are no "stepping stone" models. With, say, Martin, you can pay Santa Cruz prices for a top model, but you can start out with the cheapies, step up to the Standard Series, go a bit further to the Modern Deluxe, and so on. Where with Santa Cruz your starting point is very serious money. I think that puts a lot of people off.

(This is not to say that SC should make £1000 guitars just to get people started on the make, that isn't what SC is all about, just observing that it is a factor in their rarity. Similar comments apply to Lowden, Collings, and others.)

WafflesOnHorseback · October 2023

Interesting watching some Lowden high end prices. I have seen some price drops over the last few months. I think they (expensive acoustics) are difficult things to shift tbh.

malcolmkindness · October 2023

WafflesOnHorseback said:

Interesting watching some Lowden high end prices. I have seen some price drops over the last few months. I think they (expensive acoustics) are difficult things to shift tbh.

In my opinion hi end Lowdens are not worth the up charge. The basic ones are generally excellent and reasonable money, in fact, all things considered I think the older O10 and O12 models are the best buy.

WafflesOnHorseback · October 2023

malcolmkindness said:

WafflesOnHorseback said:

Interesting watching some Lowden high end prices. I have seen some price drops over the last few months. I think they (expensive acoustics) are difficult things to shift tbh.

In my opinion hi end Lowdens are not worth the up charge. The basic ones are generally excellent and reasonable money, in fact, all things considered I think the older O10 and O12 models are the best buy.

I have to agree. Tried alot of guitars this year at various price points - including many high end Lowden's which I was very unimpressed with. They look great but sound no better than a 2k one IMO. They are very good at marketing.

Soupman · October 2023

I have a Lowden 025 which I bought in 2002.
I tried several Lowdens, (various models) over weeks as the dealer was close to my work. This one just stood out from the others.
Resale value doesn't interest me as I never intend to sell it.

Tannin · October 2023

malcolmkindness said:

WafflesOnHorseback said:

Interesting watching some Lowden high end prices. I have seen some price drops over the last few months. I think they (expensive acoustics) are difficult things to shift tbh.

In my opinion hi end Lowdens are not worth the up charge. The basic ones are generally excellent and reasonable money, in fact, all things considered I think the older O10 and O12 models are the best buy.

Interesting. I didn't even know there were £2000 Lowdens! I thought the range started at about four grand (GBP).

(Not counting those Sheeran things, obviously.)

Here in Oz we only ever see the dear Lowdens. (And not many of them. Lowden is a very rare brand here.)

Right now at the Acoustic Centre in Melbourne - one of the two or three biggest and best acoustic guitar dealers in the country - they have four: an S34 in Sitka and Koa for $6299 (which is very cheap for a Lowden!), an F25 in cedar and rosewood at $7999, an F32c in spruce and rosewood at $8599, and a second-hand O-50 in cedar and walnut for $9999. That's £3,290, £4,178, £4,491, and £5,222 respectively, and the £3,290 one is the cheapest new Lowden I can remember ever seeing advertised in this country. (Bear it in mind that guitars are generally cheaper here - for example I'd buy an HD-28 in Hobart or Melbourne for £250 less than the UK price. For the most part, the difference is 10% GST vs 20% VAT.)

WafflesOnHorseback · October 2023

I stand corrected! And you are quite right of course. I just typed in an arbitrary (but seemingly incorrect and theoretically impossible) figure without thinking. I shall think more carefully before posting in future

Tannin · October 2023

^ It never stopped me. Post in haste, repent at leisure is my motto

Image: /plugins/EmojiExtender/emoji/fb/1.gif

Tannin · October 2023

BTW, I have played the grand total of one Lowden guitars. (Plus one of those Sheeran things, but we won't count them.)

I always guessed that they were pretty good but overpriced and not quite what their PR made them to be. Never tried one though. There were several reasons for not trying them.

* You seldom see them in this country (at a guess there might be four or five retailers who carry them, the nearest more than 800 kilometres from me).
* They are associated with a style of music that isn't really my thing (Celtic folk).
* You don't hear them in this country -on the radio and in pubs and places we mostly hear Maton and Cole Clark, but also quite a few of the usual suspects (Martin, Gibson, Taylor, Takamine) and not too much of anything else. I don't remember ever seeing anyone play a Lowden.
* They are very expensive and there is no "stepping stone" in (say) the $3000 price bracket to lead you in to them.
* Despite having shopped at the Acoustic Centre in Melbourne a few times (a place which carries them), I didn't ask to play one because I don't like to play instruments I have no intention of buying. On those visits I was shopping for a Martin or a Huss & Dalton the first time, Maton the second time.

But earlier this year while I was at Project Music in Exeter arranging for them to ship my new Brook to me here in Tasmania, Lee kindly handed me a Lowden and also a McIlroy, both in cedar and walnut, just to try out.

I have to say, they blew my socks off! I think on the whole I preferred the Lowden because although they were both a long way down that distinctive "Irish sound" road, it was even further down it than the McIlroy. I'd have very happily walked out carrying one or other of those two.

BUT - and it's a big "but" - I wouldn't dream of one as an only instrument. It's a long way outside my core style and something I'd love to play from time to time rather than something I could play all day every day. (A bit like a 12-string or a baritone in that regard.) So as a 5th or 7th guitar, I'd love a Lowden. In fact, I'd have that cedar and walnut combination one, even if it is ten grand second-hand.

guitarjack66 · October 2023

Tannin said:

BTW, I have played the grand total of one Lowden guitars. (Plus one of those Sheeran things, but we won't count them.)

I always guessed that they were pretty good but overpriced and not quite what their PR made them to be. Never tried one though. There were several reasons for not trying them.

* You seldom see them in this country (at a guess there might be four or five retailers who carry them, the nearest more than 800 kilometres from me).
* They are associated with a style of music that isn't really my thing (Celtic folk).
* You don't hear them in this country -on the radio and in pubs and places we mostly hear Maton and Cole Clark, but also quite a few of the usual suspects (Martin, Gibson, Taylor, Takamine) and not too much of anything else. I don't remember ever seeing anyone play a Lowden.
* They are very expensive and there is no "stepping stone" in (say) the $3000 price bracket to lead you in to them.
* Despite having shopped at the Acoustic Centre in Melbourne a few times (a place which carries them), I didn't ask to play one because I don't like to play instruments I have no intention of buying. On those visits I was shopping for a Martin or a Huss & Dalton the first time, Maton the second time.

But earlier this year while I was at Project Music in Exeter arranging for them to ship my new Brook to me here in Tasmania, Lee kindly handed me a Lowden and also a McIlroy, both in cedar and walnut, just to try out.

I have to say, they blew my socks off! I think on the whole I preferred the Lowden because although they were both a long way down that distinctive "Irish sound" road, it was even further down it than the McIlroy. I'd have very happily walked out carrying one or other of those two.

BUT - and it's a big "but" - I wouldn't dream of one as an only instrument. It's a long way outside my core style and something I'd love to play from time to time rather than something I could play all day every day. (A bit like a 12-string or a baritone in that regard.) So as a 5th or 7th guitar, I'd love a Lowden. In fact, I'd have that cedar and walnut combination one, even if it is ten grand second-hand.

I have to say that those Lowden Sheeran look and feel very nice to somebody who only buys at the budget level. But,they are not £600-£700(minimum) better than my Fender Concert or Cort Parlour,in my humble view.

Tannin · October 2023

^ Precisely. Perfectly decent for what they are, but priced as if they were something very special. Possibly different in the UK but over here they were trying to sell them for more than good quality all-solid guitars from Maton, MIJ Takamine, Cole Clark, and similar. They are probably worth $1000 (AUD) but they tried them on at $2300. This was back when the notoriously overpriced 2-Series Taylors - a better guitar than the Sheerans for sure.- were going for $1700. Crazy stuff!

guitarjack66 · October 2023

Tannin said:

^ Precisely. Perfectly decent for what they are, but priced as if they were something very special. Possibly different in the UK but over here they were trying to sell them for more than good quality all-solid guitars from Maton, MIJ Takamine, Cole Clark, and similar. They are probably worth $1000 (AUD) but they tried them on at $2300. This was back when the notoriously overpriced 2-Series Taylors - a better guitar than the Sheerans for sure.- were going for $1700. Crazy stuff!

Maybe they don't think the 'Sheeran' craze will last too much longer therefore they are trying to cash in?

Kilgore · October 2023

guitarjack66 said:

Tannin said:

^ Precisely. Perfectly decent for what they are, but priced as if they were something very special. Possibly different in the UK but over here they were trying to sell them for more than good quality all-solid guitars from Maton, MIJ Takamine, Cole Clark, and similar. They are probably worth $1000 (AUD) but they tried them on at $2300. This was back when the notoriously overpriced 2-Series Taylors - a better guitar than the Sheerans for sure.- were going for $1700. Crazy stuff!

Maybe they don't think the 'Sheeran' craze will last too much longer therefore they are trying to cash in?

Craze: Something popular but short-lived.

After 12 years I think we can be certain that Sheeran is more than a craze.

guitarjack66 · October 2023

Kilgore said:

guitarjack66 said:

Tannin said:

^ Precisely. Perfectly decent for what they are, but priced as if they were something very special. Possibly different in the UK but over here they were trying to sell them for more than good quality all-solid guitars from Maton, MIJ Takamine, Cole Clark, and similar. They are probably worth $1000 (AUD) but they tried them on at $2300. This was back when the notoriously overpriced 2-Series Taylors - a better guitar than the Sheerans for sure.- were going for $1700. Crazy stuff!

Maybe they don't think the 'Sheeran' craze will last too much longer therefore they are trying to cash in?

Craze: Something popular but short-lived.

After 12 years I think we can be certain that Sheeran is more than a craze.

It has to end sometime. It also might be 12 years but there are still millions of us who've never heard a single song made by Mr Sheeran. Not every act will be like The Beatles or The Stones either.

Tannin · October 2023

^ I heard some of one once.

(I can't really remember what it sounded like though. I was mostly interesting in finding out it it was a rip off of .. er ... was it a Marvin Gaye song? Ans: no it wasn't and the turkey bringing the lawsuit should have been strung up.)

Back to your earlier point, Jack - I think someone just misjudged the market. I doubt that it had much to do with Ed Sheeran and his fame. The marketing push here was heavy on the "by Lowden" bit. The guitars were presented as an affordable way to buy something made by Lowden. ("Affordable" being a relative term.) The trouble was this: very few people here know anything much about Lowden - the company is a long, long way from being a household name. Those that do recognise the name expect a beautifully made all-solid guitar, responsive and rich in harmonics. What they saw in the shop windows was an undersized short-scale toy with a plywood back and an eye-watering price tag.

Result: nothing. Nobody bought them. Buyers very sensibly bought other things instead. One shop not too far from here got in about 6 of them just before the height of the pandemic stock shortage. This was a time when you couldn't buy a Cole Clark, Matons were on 9-month backorder, and you couldn't even get an estimated ship date for a Martin or a Yamaha. But the Sheerans just sat there, unloved. Eventually most of them were specialed out for well below the initial asking price and, last time I looked, three years later, the last one was still there, still unsold. I hope somebody has thought to put new strings on it!

Sorry @WafflesOnHorseback - I think this was supposed to be your new guitar thread.

guitarjack66 · October 2023

For any Sheeran fans out there I am not knocking him,it's just that when guitars are being sold with his name on them he is bound to slip into the conversation somehow. The guitars look nice but much more educated people than me on guitars @Tannin for example can tell you more about why they appear to be priced way above their true market value versus similar models by other manufacturers.

WafflesOnHorseback · October 2023

Tannin said:

Sorry @WafflesOnHorseback - I think this was supposed to be your new guitar thread.

No problem mate, it's an interesting discussion.

I must say, I have never knowingly listened to any Sheeran. So that's 2 of us GuitarJack!

malcolmkindness · October 2023

guitarjack66 said:

For any Sheeran fans out there I am not knocking him,it's just that when guitars are being sold with his name on them he is bound to slip into the conversation somehow. The guitars look nice but much more educated people than me on guitars @Tannin for example can tell you more about why they appear to be priced way above their true market value versus similar models by other manufacturers.

They are priced way above their market value because they are manufactured in Northern Ireland. A very bad business decision in my view, but there you are.

Tannin · October 2023

What makes Northern Island so expensive?

guitarjack66 · October 2023

Tannin said:

What makes Northern Island so expensive?

An interesting question. I do know that Northern Ireland is often excluded from certain free delivery tariffs but I do not know why other than a hangover from the 'Great Britain v United Kingdom' thing? That's purely a guess though. Probably wrong.

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Nearly NGD. Parlour & Lowden discussion

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