Rig for covers set

willo · October 2023

I think you can cover a lot with an SG, but where it tends to struggle is if you need to strum clean chords - it will start to drive the amp. An EQ pedal could help.

Source: I do similar gigs as you; I usually take an HSS strat but am leaning to my SG for the next one. Over my Tele. Of the two extremes - crystal clean rhythm work on the neck pickup, and blazing bridge humbucker riffs and solos - I prioritise being able to deliver the latter, and try to figure out an EQ or volume knob solution to the former.

fastonebaz · October 2023

I've played my SG at gigs for 5 years now very versatile and comfy.

ChrisCox1994 · October 2023

Brightside is in D and they tune down on the record - any decent singer can do it in D, same for Livin on a Prayer, just do it in E or if they insist on weird keys use a Digitech drop pedal or similar.

Also, wah in place of talkbox is absolutely fine.

Honestly I think you're overthinking it - but I guess that's half the fun.

Danny1969 · October 2023

Living on a prayer in E is ok until the key change, which is the big majestic, get of the chairs lads tone and a half up ! .. so now it's in Gm which is beyond most people's range in my experience.

Almost all the bands I play in tune down a semitone. That makes everything easier to hit vocally and gives you a better starting point right from the off. For example

Brightside ... same as record if you play it in D like they do
Prayer .... lot easier to hit as now in Ebm

Can someone tell me what BOTB is ?

Jonathangus · October 2023

Danny1969 said:

Can someone tell me what BOTB is ?

Battle of the Bands.

Danny1969 · October 2023

Jonathangus said:

Danny1969 said:

Can someone tell me what BOTB is ?

Battle of the Bands.

Ah cheers

stickyfiddle · October 2023

ChrisCox1994 said:

Brightside is in D and they tune down on the record - any decent singer can do it in D, same for Livin on a Prayer, just do it in E or if they insist on weird keys use a Digitech drop pedal or similar.

Also, wah in place of talkbox is absolutely fine.

Honestly I think you're overthinking it - but I guess that's half the fun.

Agreed - we're doing Brightside in E (up a semitone) which is fine.

LOAP is a nightmare in E - even JBJ himself can't get close to those notes any more. I actually think the vocals sound fine on Beat It in standard, but the singer much prefers it down to D. Given we're already pitching one song down I don't mind moving that as well as I think they'll be next to each other in the set.

As for overthinking - you're damn right I am...!

rich75 · October 2023

stickyfiddle said:

Also I still want a talk box...

Accepting what others have said about not "needing" a talkbox, if you are set on having one anyway the TC Helicon Talkbox Synth is great for this. It has talkbox and vocoder modes which sound really good, and is very easy to integrate into a pedalboard setup. I use it at gigs for LOAP and get lots of positive comments about it.

stickyfiddle · October 2023

rich75 said:

stickyfiddle said:

Also I still want a talk box...

Accepting what others have said about not "needing" a talkbox, if you are set on having one anyway the TC Helicon Talkbox Synth is great for this. It has talkbox and vocoder modes which sound really good, and is very easy to integrate into a pedalboard setup. I use it at gigs for LOAP and get lots of positive comments about it.

Ta - that looks quite cheap so will def go watch some videos!

stickyfiddle · October 2023

Actually one question @rich75 when the TC is switched off, I assume it still lets the mic pass through so you can use the same mic for BVs?

rich75 · October 2023

stickyfiddle said:

Actually one question @rich75 when the TC is switched off, I assume it still lets the mic pass through so you can use the same mic for BVs?

Yes, that's correct. Both the guitar signal and the mic signal pass through uninterrupted when the pedal isn't engaged. When you kick in the switch (in the mode that I use) the guitar signal going to your amp remains unaffected and the talkbox effect goes out via the XLR direct to the PA (replacing your normal vocal). I can easily do talkbox and BVs on LOAP by switching the effect on and off.

I think there is a different mode that routes the talkbox effect through the guitar output instead but I never use that.

When the effect is disengaged the vocal processing (i.e. pitch correction, reverb etc) still work.

26.2 · October 2023

ICBM said:

Snags said:

IME people are more interested in an engaging performance than an accurate one, unless you're a tribute band, and even then to some extent. Very few people really listen to a song and know it intimately.

This. I've been banging on about it for years .

Why not engaging AND accurate? Doesn’t have to be 100%, but I think the more you really get to grips with the details the better the performance will be.

stickyfiddle · October 2023

rich75 said:

stickyfiddle said:

Actually one question @rich75 when the TC is switched off, I assume it still lets the mic pass through so you can use the same mic for BVs?

Yes, that's correct. Both the guitar signal and the mic signal pass through uninterrupted when the pedal isn't engaged. When you kick in the switch (in the mode that I use) the guitar signal going to your amp remains unaffected and the talkbox effect goes out via the XLR direct to the PA (replacing your normal vocal). I can easily do talkbox and BVs on LOAP by switching the effect on and off.

I think there is a different mode that routes the talkbox effect through the guitar output instead but I never use that.

When the effect is disengaged the vocal processing (i.e. pitch correction, reverb etc) still work.

Nice - that sounds perfect. Half the price of an actual talkbox and less faff. I assume you have to sing into the mic, becuase there's no sound going in otherwise?

stickyfiddle · October 2023

26.2 said:

ICBM said:

Snags said:

IME people are more interested in an engaging performance than an accurate one, unless you're a tribute band, and even then to some extent. Very few people really listen to a song and know it intimately.

This. I've been banging on about it for years .

Why not engaging AND accurate? Doesn’t have to be 100%, but I think the more you really get to grips with the details the better the performance will be.

This is generally my approach. ICBM wouldn't appreciate the notes I circulated to my lot last night...!!

rich75 · October 2023

stickyfiddle said:

rich75 said:

stickyfiddle said:

Actually one question @rich75 when the TC is switched off, I assume it still lets the mic pass through so you can use the same mic for BVs?

Yes, that's correct. Both the guitar signal and the mic signal pass through uninterrupted when the pedal isn't engaged. When you kick in the switch (in the mode that I use) the guitar signal going to your amp remains unaffected and the talkbox effect goes out via the XLR direct to the PA (replacing your normal vocal). I can easily do talkbox and BVs on LOAP by switching the effect on and off.

I think there is a different mode that routes the talkbox effect through the guitar output instead but I never use that.

When the effect is disengaged the vocal processing (i.e. pitch correction, reverb etc) still work.

Nice - that sounds perfect. Half the price of an actual talkbox and less faff. I assume you have to sing into the mic, becuase there's no sound going in otherwise?

Correct - you need some sound going into the mic to make the effect work but the pitch is entirely controlled from the guitar.

stickyfiddle · October 2023

Great - sounds ideal

RocknRollDave · October 2023

stickyfiddle said:

ChrisCox1994 said:

Brightside is in D and they tune down on the record - any decent singer can do it in D, same for Livin on a Prayer, just do it in E or if they insist on weird keys use a Digitech drop pedal or similar.

Also, wah in place of talkbox is absolutely fine.

Honestly I think you're overthinking it - but I guess that's half the fun.

Agreed - we're doing Brightside in E (up a semitone) which is fine.

LOAP is a nightmare in E - even JBJ himself can't get close to those notes any more. I actually think the vocals sound fine on Beat It in standard, but the singer much prefers it down to D. Given we're already pitching one song down I don't mind moving that as well as I think they'll be next to each other in the set.

As for overthinking - you're damn right I am...!

I don’t believe he ever hit the notes on the key change part. I’m calling studio trickery.

hollywoodrox · October 2023

stickyfiddle said:

Snags said:

On guitar choice, absolutely no-one is going to give a poop apart from you, and maybe one nerd in the audience. So play the one that makes your life easiest.

IME people are more interested in an engaging performance than an accurate one, unless you're a tribute band, and even then to some extent. Very few people really listen to a song and know it intimately.

That's fair comment and a helpful reminder. I have already said the same to the new guys in the band. It's so much more about delivering a good show than it is about everything being perfect

As for punters not knowing songs intimately, i'm counting on it - I can do some widdly bits for Beat It but I'm not learning to tap in 6 weeks!

Taps easier than the stretches

stickyfiddle · October 2023

hollywoodrox said:

stickyfiddle said:

Snags said:

On guitar choice, absolutely no-one is going to give a poop apart from you, and maybe one nerd in the audience. So play the one that makes your life easiest.

IME people are more interested in an engaging performance than an accurate one, unless you're a tribute band, and even then to some extent. Very few people really listen to a song and know it intimately.

That's fair comment and a helpful reminder. I have already said the same to the new guys in the band. It's so much more about delivering a good show than it is about everything being perfect

As for punters not knowing songs intimately, i'm counting on it - I can do some widdly bits for Beat It but I'm not learning to tap in 6 weeks!

Taps easier than the stretches

Playing different notes entirely... priceless!

Sporky · October 2023

I may have found you the right guitar.

Offset, as per your proclivities
Two-point trem for widdly-widdly abuse
Humbuckers for RAWK but with individual splits

https://reverb.com/uk/item/68204668-g-l-clf-doheny-v12-grey-pearl

There's also a really tasty purple one on Reverb...

Snags · October 2023

26.2 said:

ICBM said:

Snags said:

IME people are more interested in an engaging performance than an accurate one, unless you're a tribute band, and even then to some extent. Very few people really listen to a song and know it intimately.

This. I've been banging on about it for years .

Why not engaging AND accurate? Doesn’t have to be 100%, but I think the more you really get to grips with the details the better the performance will be.

I'm not suggesting wilful inaccuracy, just that beyond a certain point, almost no-one but a small collection of obsessives who most likely aren't there will give a monkeys. Even when it comes to air guitaring the solo in Beat It; a certain strand of guitarists will go "ooooooh, no, it has to be note for note, because everyone knows that" but pound to a pinch pretty much nobody apart from those guitarists have the first clue how the solo to Beat It goes, and as long as they can join in shouting out the words they know at random, they'll be happy.

I get cheesed off because loads of people round here do Wicked Game without bothering to do the "correct" guitar parts (which really aren't difficult), or just do it on an acoustic by attacking open chords like they're beating up the person who molested their favourite child. Then they don't do the high bit, because they can't, and they fuck up the song order and totally miss the outro line. But the audience invariably laps it up because they're just happy to hear a song that brings back good memories.

So yeah, be as accurate as you can right up to the point where it's making you concentrate more on the playing than the performance, or where you're losing sleep over getting that accidental in just the right place. At which point, sacrifice accuracy for performance every time.

Jalapeno · October 2023

Not sure I understand why any ES33x has upper fret access issues - that ought to be their attraction (amongst other things)

ICBM · October 2023

26.2 said:

Why not engaging AND accurate? Doesn’t have to be 100%, but I think the more you really get to grips with the details the better the performance will be.

I prefer 50% accurate to 95%. 95% sounds like you’re trying for 100% but not nailing it. It’s what I dislike about most covers bands.

100% is quite impressive if you can do it though…

Jalapeno said:

Not sure I understand why any ES33x has upper fret access issues - that ought to be their attraction (amongst other things)

Have you ever played a proper ES-330? Totally different from a 335 or a long neck 330 - the neck is three frets further into the body.

I much prefer them - they’re the only ones that don’t feel like an oar attached to a toilet seat - but top-fret access is restricted.

Jalapeno · October 2023

Jalapeno said:

Not sure I understand why any ES33x has upper fret access issues - that ought to be their attraction (amongst other things)

Have you ever played a proper ES-330? Totally different from a 335 or a long neck 330 - the neck is three frets further into the body.

I much prefer them - they’re the only ones that don’t feel like an oar attached to a toilet seat - but top-fret access is restricted.

I did not know that (clearly) !

stickyfiddle · October 2023

Sporky said:

I may have found you the right guitar.

Offset, as per your proclivities
Two-point trem for widdly-widdly abuse
Humbuckers for RAWK but with individual splits

https://reverb.com/uk/item/68204668-g-l-clf-doheny-v12-grey-pearl

There's also a really tasty purple one on Reverb...

I'm well set for offsets tbh. Though I'll admit I'm keen to use one for the first half of the set if sounds allow, simply because they're pretty

Sporky · October 2023

Yeah, but OMG PURPLE.

stickyfiddle · October 2023

I'm not sure that's quite the vibe we're after, but it is definitely unmistakably purple...!

stickyfiddle · October 2023

Anyhoo, currently thinking is a new wireless unit that lets me plug one guitar in via lead then have another for going walkies. TC Helicon Talkbox for the silly mouthy bits and quite likely my little Major Overdrive for Marshall-flavoured duty, cos it sounds brilliant with a TS in front.

Jury's still out on guitar selection.

Snags · October 2023

FWIW I did an acoustic gig recently where I had the second/backup (actually my best) guitar in an alternate tuning for two songs, to save sodding around time. Just used a cheap Boss AB pedal and had them both plugged into that, then from there to the pedalboard. Worked a treat, and no need to juggle any leads, bugs or anything else.

stickyfiddle · October 2023

Right, so I have a TC Helicon talk box synth on the way, which is the further I want to go in terms of complexity. And I’ve got a couple of good options for the Marshally sounds, which is ace.

Guitars I’ll work out but of course I just got an email from the music shop next to our studio, and a tiny bit of of me is jumping up and down wanting to buy this ridiculous thing….

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Rig for covers set

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