Hand wired boutique amps over production amps

Paul1401 · September 2023

Hi All,
Sorry for another mundane question, but rawling through the posts on this site I see a number of people use hand wired boutique amps over factory production. Are they worth the extra cash ? I was going to buy production, but heard one or two boutique amps and now in in a muddle. Thanks.

Alex2678 · September 2023

I think it depends, the people that have bought them will likely think they were, some people may have decided they’re not and gone with production amps. Not all production amps are created equal, not all boutique amps are created equal, were there any specifically you were looking at?

ChrisCox1994 · September 2023

- handwired amps are:

Easier/cheaper to repair
supposedly more hardwearing
likely to be made with higher quality components

they dont:
- sound better (thats subjective anyway)

Paul1401 · September 2023

Alex2678 said:

I think it depends, the people that have bought them will likely think they were, some people may have decided they’re not and gone with production amps. Not all production amps are created equal, not all boutique amps are created equal, were there any specifically you were looking at?

I was considering Emprize or Gartone over Marshall.

PrecisionGuided · September 2023

Most of the modern 'boutique' amps are slung together by BAD (Boutique Amplifier Distribution) - high quality bits soldered by a blind man's dog.

A 'hand wired', badly laid out PCB is no better than a machine placed / flow soldered PCB - often they are much worse.

Very few new amps are genuine turret / tag board or point-to-point construction - they use 'hand wired' to mean something else.

Morgan, Tone King, Friedman, Bogner, Egnater, are all made in the same BAD factory - most of the money is spent on the fancy eye-candy casework.

My Magnatone sounds fab but has already been back for one Warranty repair and the soldering is dreadful.

So, some do sound great but build quality and reliability are suspect, plus they are a real pain to get fixed here in the UK.

YMMV

Edit.. My Friedman Runt is very well put together, so it depends...

Winny_Pooh · September 2023

We've been here before.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3681909

Winny_Pooh · September 2023

You might be happier trying a bunch of amps in person.

ICBM · September 2023

Which Marshall? There’s a very big difference between the vintage reissues - even the standard PCB ones - the modern interpretations of them (eg the Studio series), and the ‘modern’ models (DSLs and JVMs etc).

Alex2678 · September 2023

I’d imagine Emprize or Gartone - properly boutique- amps will be better put together than Marshall’s good stuff (definitely better than their worst stuff) but I don’t know to what degree you’ll notice between Marshall’s higher end stuff and the boutique stuff

Dontgiveupyourdayjob · September 2023

I saw a good (albeit long) video about this sort of thing recently. First half of the vid focuses on Hand-Wired Vs PCB pedals, but the chat specifically about amps is from about 17:30 onwards.

Vid has expert input from the guys from JHS, Keeley, Friedman and Suhr, so it's not just bedroom YouTubers spouting forth like a lot of vids are.

GoFish · September 2023

You may not notice in sound or even in feel. They will be better put together with higher quality components and probably more atention to detail. Plus servicing and any changes would be easier in theory. We get Marshalls and Voxes pretty cheap over here in the grand scheme of things. Fender and USA designs are a lot pricier and this may change the value you'd find in a proper "Boutique" build. Of course, these older designs were mostly handwired in the first place, so you'd be paying for a more authentically constructed amp.

Ultimately, if the production amps are brilliant, the differences for the end user will be minimal. It's the care that goes into component selection and construction - knowing that parts haven't been designed and chosen just to minimise costs.

Wazmeister · September 2023

Winny_Pooh said:

You might be happier trying a bunch of amps in person.

This is wisdom, every time.

theatreanchor · September 2023

Don’t just hear them, try them wherever possible, and don’t rush your purchase. I have both boutique and PCB / factory stuff. I like them for different reasons.

Paul1401 · September 2023

ICBM said:

Which Marshall? There’s a very big difference between the vintage reissues - even the standard PCB ones - the modern interpretations of them (eg the Studio series), and the ‘modern’ models (DSLs and JVMs etc).

I was looking at a Mini Jubilee 2525C

Paul1401 · September 2023

Winny_Pooh said:

We've been here before.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3681909

Apologies, but I’ve had a lot of valuable info this time. Thanks

Paul1401 · September 2023

In respect to trying loads of amps - Where I live I don’t really have that type of option as the only shops usually only carry the cheaper amps, which is why I ask people in the know.

richardhomer · September 2023

The only truly ‘boutique’ amp I’ve owned was an early 2000s Badcat Cub IIR. At what it did, it was fantastic but ultimately not for me.

I would always compromise on an amp, rather than a guitar but as others have said, you really need to try a wide variety of options and properly evaluate them for yourself.

Alex2678 · September 2023

Paul1401 said:

ICBM said:

Which Marshall? There’s a very big difference between the vintage reissues - even the standard PCB ones - the modern interpretations of them (eg the Studio series), and the ‘modern’ models (DSLs and JVMs etc).

I was looking at a Mini Jubilee 2525C

I think most hand wired boutique Marshall amps especially Emprize for example will be 60s plexi type amps rather than silver jubilee type things

Modulus_Amps · September 2023

PrecisionGuided said:

Morgan, Tone King, Friedman, Bogner, Egnater, are all made in the same BAD factory - most of the money is spent on the fancy eye-candy casework.

This may be controversial, but non of those amps are "boutique" anymore. It is the equivalent of saying Victory amps are boutique.

Gartone, Rift, Emprize are proper UK made boutique amps and all three of the gents behind those businesses build cracking amps.

Alex2678 · September 2023

I’d agree there

BowynMadley · September 2023

Boutique is a word that it is overused these days. Especially in the guitar and amp world. Boutique to me means that they are offering a limited, special and often unique product. Friedman, Morgan, tone king etc are none of those things. They are now mass production amplifiers. If you want a truly Boutique amplifier go to the likes of Cornell, RD Amplification, Gartone, M J W etc. They have the ability to build you a specific an unique amp. However if you want a marshall sound buy a marshall. Similarly with fender and vox (90% of "Boutique" amplifiers are copies of those anyway)

DrCornelius · September 2023

Those mini jubilees are great amps boutique ot not (not !). Buy used and you’ll be able to make your money back if you decide it’s not for you as they don’t seem to hang around long on here

ICBM · September 2023

"Boutique" is and really always has been a meaningless term used to justify snobbery and excessive pricing. Either an amp is well-made or it isn't, and large companies can do that as well as small ones - even if they often don't.

The Mini Jubilee is significantly different from a JTM45 reissue though.

Nerine · September 2023

“Boutique” is pretty stupid really. It’s a guitar amplifier. All of this stuff was demystified years ago. They’re electrical components from parts bins whichever way you slice it.

As much as I really love Two Rock amps, and really wish I hadn’t have sold mine, the price of entry now is just plain ridiculous for what it is.

For me, usually there is a value proposition. Once you get past £2-3k (+/- a bit because obviously it varies a bit depending on what you’re buying) I’m not sure the value proposition remains anymore.

Like, I don’t care who put the guitar/amp together, it just is not worth the amount being asked for it.

Musicians are pretty stupid really. It’s such a backward facing industry in terms of equipment..

You don’t see (en masse) computer nerds pining for old GTX8800’s to SLi together in their quad core Q6700 builds so they can play vintage games more period correctly. (I appreciate this does happen, but the bleeding edge is far more prominent).

The bottom line is people conflate the significance of the music with the importance of the equipment used.

The gear just happened to be around at the time these groundbreaking records were made. There wasn’t anything magical about it. The music played on it was what popularised it, yet people lust after vintage amplifiers and guitars because they sound better. They don’t. The songs were better. And people don’t know how to differentiate between the two.

People drone on about the Zeppelin drum sound. It’s nothing special, really. The songs and the performances have the sound meaning or purpose and consequently, gave the gear a mystique.

If Bonham had been playing Premier rather than Ludwig, people would have been fawning after that instead.

People chase sounds. The reason is because they like the music. If Van Halen were shit, nobody would be chasing the “Brown Sound”.

It’s ridiculous.

Alex2678 · September 2023

We all contribute to it I think, the better made amps available at the minute are valve amps, because no company would dare make a really high end solid state/digital amp, and they’re probably right not to because it would be a hard sell - because people equate valves with quality and durability, and at the moment they’re probably right to, because no one’s making really high end…….Round in circles

NickB · September 2023

If it sounds good it is good irrespective of whether it's handwired or mass production.

MikeP · September 2023

How is it ridiculous? Those guys DEFINED what good sound IS. If Clapton had played a guild in 66 everyone would be chasing those as the definition of good sound. Or to put it another way, the gear WAS made magical...

ICBM · September 2023

MikeP said:

How is it ridiculous? Those guys DEFINED what good sound IS. If Clapton had played a guild in 66 everyone would be chasing those as the definition of good sound. Or to put it another way, the gear WAS made magical...

And yet, a lot of Clapton's fans think that his best-ever tone was on Derek & The Dominoes Live At The Fillmore.

For which he used a Sunn Coliseum Lead head through a Marshall cabinet...

and which is not only mass-produced, it's solid state

.

Secret_Sam · September 2023

When my kids finally graduate, getting a Matamp is on my bucket list. Because I bought a cab from Mat Mathias when I was about 19, and I really liked him (yes I know he is now no more).

Do they still tick all the right handmade, good layout boxes? I have in mind a thiry watter, because I don't live on a farm.

ICBM · September 2023

Secret_Sam said:

When my kids finally graduate, getting a Matamp is on my bucket list. Because I bought a cab from Mat Mathias when I was about 19, and I really liked him (yes I know he is now no more).

Do they still tick all the right handmade, good layout boxes? I have in mind a thiry watter, because I don't live on a farm.

Yes, they're definitely still hand made. Many of the models use PCBs for the main part of the circuit (often with turrets for most of the components), but with chassis-mounted pots, jacks and valve sockets.

Image: https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--H4I4Epdw--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_1600,q_80,w_1600/v1465815202/p6xr01uamanofbax6n3i.jpg

Secret_Sam · September 2023

That's very good to know. I'll carry on saving then :- ) Thanks.

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Hand wired boutique amps over production amps

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