I know a lot of people don't like musicals .....

axisus · September 2023

... and that is fair enough, but we are often talking about real quality writers of music.

I'm a big fan of Pink Floyd, and the Wall is one of my fave albums ever, but going through the song book there is a lot of C, D, A, G chords etc. Roger gets a lot of mileage out of the simple side of things.

Now I like to bash around on a piano, and I can sight read chord based backings pretty well. If I get out a score from a musical, wow we really are talking about interesting chords and the way they are used. Some of the classics, like You'll never walk alone ( not the best example in some ways as the 'film' version is a bit uggh), the chords are just wonderful and fulfilling. And even more modern stuff - Disney's Beauty and the beast - fabulous chord arrangements. Phantom of the opera, tons of flats but it all sounds superb. Les Mis - stirring stuff. Honestly, if I had a singing voice I could be happy all day running through musical scores. Sadly I don't, but it's great fun to play along to Youtube videos.

Them peoples, they know about chords and music.

Shrews · September 2023

Memories. Sad but also unforgettable and nice to remember.

La La Land came out in 2016. I saw a trailer for it with my now late wife at some film we went to watch and 'spiritually' something kicked in for me. For some reason I could not stop humming the tune from the trailer (City of Stars) and of course we then went to see it when it came to our screens. It became my favourite film of all time.

It became the soundtrack to the years leading up to her death in February 2019. Morbid maybe, but my wife's cancer was a terminal diagnosis from some years before and as she got weaker and weaker I watched and listened to La La Land more and more. I must have watched it 20-30 times over a 2 year period. On the day she died I played the CD soundtrack on loop for almost the entire day. It was the soundtrack to my grieving both before and after.

When I look back, from the trailer to my wife's inevitable end it was like 'God' had sent it into my life to help me cope with it all. Spiritually that's how it felt and still does.

For the record, my wife hated it (wry smile about her laughing. Which I can hear now as I'm typing)

merlin · September 2023

axisus said:

... and that is fair enough, but we are often talking about real quality writers of music.

Them peoples, they know about chords and music.

Them people all went to music college/school/university, learned composition, music theory, part writing etc. Tension/resolution etc.

steer · September 2023

Jazz fans would probably say the same. And I have no doubt that they would be correct, that Jazz music is technically far more interesting when compared to rock / pop etc. But if I had to sit in a room with a Jazz musician who was playing jazz on a guitar for more than 2 minutes, I would end up being arrested for GBH.

I feel almost as strongly about musicals as I do about Jazz.

RaymondLin · September 2023

Shrews said:

Memories. Sad but also unforgettable and nice to remember.

La La Land came out in 2016. I saw a trailer for it with my now late wife at some film we went to watch and 'spiritually' something kicked in for me. For some reason I could not stop humming the tune from the trailer (City of Stars) and of course we then went to see it when it came to our screens. It became my favourite film of all time.

It became the soundtrack to the years leading up to her death in February 2019. Morbid maybe, but my wife's cancer was a terminal diagnosis from some years before and as she got weaker and weaker I watched and listened to La La Land more and more. I must have watched it 20-30 times over a 2 year period. On the day she died I played the CD soundtrack on loop for almost the entire day. It was the soundtrack to my grieving both before and after.

When I look back, from the trailer to my wife's inevitable end it was like 'God' had sent it into my life to help me cope with it all. Spiritually that's how it felt and still does.

For the record, my wife hated it (wry smile about her laughing. Which I can hear now as I'm typing)

Sorry for your loss.

I love La La Land, at the time I had Odeon Limitless and during it's release I went to see it 6 times in my local Odeon.

Then about 6 months or so later, they played it with a live orchestra in Bristol and I went and watched that too.

It's one of my favourite movies, and I don't usually watch musicals.

Winny_Pooh · September 2023

@steer said:

Jazz fans would probably say the same. And I have no doubt that they would be correct, that Jazz music is technically far more interesting when compared to rock / pop etc. But if I had to sit in a room with a Jazz musician who was playing jazz on a guitar for more than 2 minutes, I would end up being arrested for GBH.

I feel almost as strongly about musicals as I do about Jazz.

I feel sad for you. Why limit ourselves? There's lots of jazz guitar that is ok for those with simple tastes and very enjoyable. (Kenny burrell, grant green, julian lage) I'm not a fan of musicals but when a song comes on I'm open to it to see how it goes and give it a chance.

UnclePsychosis · September 2023

The Book Of Mormon remains the funniest thing I've ever seen, in any format. The music is also spectacularly well done.

axisus · September 2023

@Shrews wow, that was some post. Great that you get something from that film. I have both films and music that remind me of my mum, in a good way. A heartwarming way. It all helps.

I liked La la land, I could do with seeing it again.

Stratavarious · September 2023

Book Of Mormon!!!

Shrews · September 2023

axisus said:

@Shrews wow, that was some post. Great that you get something from that film. I have both films and music that remind me of my mum, in a good way. A heartwarming way. It all helps.

I liked La la land, I could do with seeing it again.

Well, my mum passed away a few months ago and whilst we weren't close I have fond memories of her in childhood. She was a musical person, played piano and keys, read music etc and it was her passion in life. She loved Elvis and Cliff Richard, but as a kid she'd always be playing the 'musicals' on our wireless/record player thingy. Especially all the Rodgers and Hammerstein stuff.

Chitty, Chitty Bang Bang, for us kids!

I remember one year she was excited because over Christmas 'Seven Brides for Seven Brothers' was being screened on TV for the first time. We were sort of forced to watch it from memory in a 'It's family time' way. We had a piano in our dining room and a chair where the seat opened up and all her music sheets were in there. I've no idea what happened to it all.

steer · September 2023

Winny_Pooh said:

@steer said:

Jazz fans would probably say the same. And I have no doubt that they would be correct, that Jazz music is technically far more interesting when compared to rock / pop etc. But if I had to sit in a room with a Jazz musician who was playing jazz on a guitar for more than 2 minutes, I would end up being arrested for GBH.

I feel almost as strongly about musicals as I do about Jazz.

I feel sad for you. Why limit ourselves? There's lots of jazz guitar that is ok for those with simple tastes and very enjoyable. (Kenny burrell, grant green, julian lage) I'm not a fan of musicals but when a song comes on I'm open to it to see how it goes and give it a chance.

Why feel sad for me? There are loads of different genre's of music that I absolutely love. Not all people like all kinds of music, and that is OK. Pretty much all Musicals and Jazz irritate me immensely.

Sassafras · September 2023

The music's fine, it's the singing voices that often grate.

Dominic · September 2023

I saw The Wiggles Xmas special

Placidcasual79 · September 2023

axisus said:

... and that is fair enough, but we are often talking about real quality writers of music.

I'm a big fan of Pink Floyd, and the Wall is one of my fave albums ever, but going through the song book there is a lot of C, D, A, G chords etc. Roger gets a lot of mileage out of the simple side of things.

Now I like to bash around on a piano, and I can sight read chord based backings pretty well. If I get out a score from a musical, wow we really are talking about interesting chords and the way they are used. Some of the classics, like You'll never walk alone ( not the best example in some ways as the 'film' version is a bit uggh), the chords are just wonderful and fulfilling. And even more modern stuff - Disney's Beauty and the beast - fabulous chord arrangements. Phantom of the opera, tons of flats but it all sounds superb. Les Mis - stirring stuff. Honestly, if I had a singing voice I could be happy all day running through musical scores. Sadly I don't, but it's great fun to play along to Youtube videos.

Them peoples, they know about chords and music.

I am happy to confess my ignorance of both complex (and in fact basic) chord sequences and musicals in general. With my ignorance in mind I think that you can recognise musical chord sequences - to the highly untrained ear they stand out as being somehow more expressive, lyrical or emotional than traditional pop or rock.

So I guess I am asking whether its there complexity that makes them appear more expressive? is it the type of chords used? Is it that more complex chord sequences don't fit into the conventions of a 'pop/rock' song

I've always wondered - can you take these complex musical type chords and sequences and play them on the guitar @axisus?

Kittyfrisk · September 2023

Dominic said:

I saw The Wiggles Xmas special

You a fucken Bogan, mate?

sev112 · September 2023

There are 3 types of musicals

- very Good musicals
- good entertainment but average musicality and lyrics
- the other 90%

TTony · September 2023

sev112 said:

There are 3 types of musicals
- very Good musicals
- good entertainment but average musicality and lyrics
- the other 90%

Funny, but ...

I was of a similar opinion *until* MrsTT and I went to a London Show many years ago. Les Mis. At the interval, we seriously discussed leaving, but we stayed on and so glad that we did.

It took a while to get into it (hence the interval discussion) but having got there, it was an incredible experience. Since then, we've seen a fair few more and there's not a single one* that I regret watching, even at the prices that London theatres charge nowadays.

Written and then performed by proper professionals at the top of their respective games.

(* the Lion King - MrsTT's choice - not so much a musical as a children's puppet show, so I don't really count that).

sev112 · September 2023

Les is is fabukous, Category 1
Lion Kimg is a riot, Catgeory 2

sev112 · September 2023

Other Category 1s :
Fiddler on the Roof
Miss Saigon
The King and I
Sound of Music
Oliver
matilda
West Side Story

barnstorm · September 2023

@sev112 I also liked Matilda. Naughty is especially well written. Killer bridge. Waitress has some A1 stuff, too, among the modern musicals.

And although the recent Disney ones are full of ‘that’ll do’ lyrics, there are bits and pieces I love. I Am Moana is straight-up masterful, and I like the musical/orchestration choices on a couple of Frozen II songs, too.

This video of director Jennifer Lee losing her mind at a recording session is a wonderful little watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uXhyHzuGMY

Petepassion · September 2023

merlin said:

axisus said:

... and that is fair enough, but we are often talking about real quality writers of music.

Them peoples, they know about chords and music.

Them people all went to music college/school/university, learned composition, music theory, part writing etc. Tension/resolution etc.

well…er…actually I spent last Sunday singing a few songs for a musical that an old friend of mine has written. 40 odd songs, several different singers. Many of the songs are great, and ya know what… he doesn’t even know the names of half the chords he’s using.
This fella is a natural, he has what many will go to college and university to learn.

racefaceec90 · September 2023

i am not into musicals but i do like grease, rocky horror picture show and little shop of horrors (all the film versions i mean). not seen any of the stage ones.

exhibit a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtWQGtgrC90

Cranky · September 2023

I agree.

But try playing Floyd Songs using embellished drop2 and drop3 voicings. That’s the difference between a lot of music written for piano vs basic guitar chord progressions. The piano begs for alternative voicings that, to the musically unaware, might look like altogether different chords than what the chart says.

SpoonMan · September 2023

I don't know about musicals but I have a bowie song book and always liked some of the chord choices he uses. Changes, quicksand etc.
Don't know if it's just that some were written on piano so they seem more interesting playing them on guitar.

The wall was I think the first song book I owned though and I remember being really surprised to see how simple some of the chord progressions were.

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

racefaceec90 said:

i am not into musicals but i do like grease, rocky horror picture show and little shop of horrors (all the film versions i mean). not seen any of the stage ones.

exhibit a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtWQGtgrC90

Little Shop of Horrors is a brilliant film, I regret not buying it when Google had it on special for under a fiver for the HD version - I'm checking the specials section just in case it goes on special again.on a very regular basis.

thecolourbox · September 2023

The way I feel about musicals personally, is that I can respect them and see the craft within them and appreciate them, as long as I don't actually have to listen to any of them. Similar with pop artists such as Lady Gaga, Elton John, Abba, for example. Often very well written and very cleverly put together but I just don't like the sound of them when performed.

On the other hand, i've had to play a fair few musical type songs as part of my wedding pianist side hustle and, just like most disney songs, they are often incredibly satisfying to play on piano. Without the cheesy o-ver e-nunnn-ciiii-ate-ed vocals and production that sounds akin to casio keyboards used in schools in the 90s, the actual chords, melodies, phrasing and structures are actually quite nice. I suspect as others have said one of the differences is that they must largely be written on a piano as the chord shapes and sequences just flow very easily on a piano compared to say, a guitar. Often you barely have to move your hand to get around some of the sequences, more like a bit of a pivot.

The other difference I feel between playing those and more modern stuff (and this is more of a personal perception thing, not really based on any objectivity so I hope it makes sense) is that generally the musicals tunes seem to be written from the point of view of what sounds the best, building the theme of whatever emotion they are trying to sing about, without really caring about needing to sound cool/edgy/insert-identity of frontperson here. The musical aesthetic, I suppose. I find a lot of modern music is more written from the viewpoint of what's cool, what are we trying to show as an image rather than what can we add that's harmonically interesting. Obviously that's two binary extremes and a lot of music falls between them on a scale, and as others have said nice pretty added 2nd chords or tritone substitution is not really going to sound very elegant amongst a djent band, just as repeated notes in the vocal line to fit in the lyrics that the singer wants to say but don't really fit aren't really going to work in the climactic aria ending of a dramatic musical.

Anyway, yeah, I much prefer musical songs if I don't actually have to listen to them

Offset · September 2023

UnclePsychosis said:

The Book Of Mormon remains the funniest thing I've ever seen, in any format. The music is also spectacularly well done.

Yep, we loved it! Return To Forbidden Planet was great back in the day as well, as was Kinky Boots.

The film version of Evita is great - not something I'd normally watch but I thought it was fabulous. Jungle Book, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Aristocats... loads of fab kids' movies that have outstanding sountracks.

Snap · September 2023

My daughter studied musical theatre as part of her A level, and can indeed attest to the compositional capability.
However, they are universally shite IMO. Apart from the Blues Brothers obviously.
I really don't like them. The worst I have seen is Rocket Man. How to ruin a good story.

thecolourbox · September 2023

In fairness I'd differentiate between a musical and a film that has music. I've not seen much of Rocket Man (my parents had it on once and it seemed like a low budget cheesy bbc film) but it seemed more to be like a film that used music rather than the music actually telling the story if that makes sense?

Mind you that whole "two characters suddenly bursting into song out of nowhere" thing in musicals is hard to stomach! Hence my previous comment - they are great as long as i don't have to listen to them

strumjoughlamps · September 2023

Rent undoubtedly is the greatest musical.

Exhibit A

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

I thought Jersey Boys was a brilliant musical, not just the stage show, but also the movie, the music is superb in it.

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I know a lot of people don't like musicals .....

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