MiM Fender strat vs upgraded Squier strat

Yorkie · September 2023

I’m well familiar with cheaper Squiers. Not so much with the cheaper Fenders. I have read with interest that thread on the nice Squier on offer somewhere, and today a friend of mine was talking about Mexican Fenders and how many of them have ceramic pickups and cheapo electronics.

But the cheapest MiM Fender is probably more expensive than any beefed up Squier (which might have AlNiCos etc).

Where does the money difference go? The headstock? Please enlighten this ignorant.

crunchman · September 2023

The Fender name.

For a Tele I'd get a Schecter PT Special.

Yorkie · September 2023

Do MiM Fenders have any features not normally found on good Squiers? Better necks, or more stable tuners, or thicker bodies, or…

I know, I know, a cooler headstock.

theatreanchor · September 2023

I’d take a modern Squire over an MIM any day.

Pete.R · September 2023

I'd take a MiJ FGN over any MiM or MiA Fender.....

they start around 500GBP

thermionic · September 2023

I thought MIM Fenders have all had Alnico rod magnet pickups for quite a few years now? Even the higher end Squiers have less “authentic” woods - basswood, nyatoh etc. rather than alder.

swiller · September 2023

Id say money goes on nut, tremblock, saddles, finishing of frets, pups, more popular woods, tuners. Pots are cheap to replace, ceramics vs alnico is simply a matter of choice, not merit imho.

But in my limited experience, modern squiers have a ceiling, which is pretty close to how they come stock. They are very cleverly built that way imho. Chuck a USA loaded pickguard in a modern squier strat and it will not sound like the donator guitar and retain its cheaper sounding character.

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

Yorkie said:

I’m well familiar with cheaper Squiers. Not so much with the cheaper Fenders. I have read with interest that thread on the nice Squier on offer somewhere, and today a friend of mine was talking about Mexican Fenders and how many of them have ceramic pickups and cheapo electronics.

But the cheapest MiM Fender is probably more expensive than any beefed up Squier (which might have AlNiCos etc).

Where does the money difference go? The headstock? Please enlighten this ignorant.

MIM Fenders are Fenders made with the exact same parts as their American counterparts, but assembled in Mexico - as in the unassembled parts are shipped from America to Mexico to be assembled into finished guitars, they are a huge step up from Squier, the cheapest MIM Fender Strat does not have ceramic pickups rather Alinco V, they also have ''better specs'' - depending on model this can mean things like locking machine heads and rolled fretboards, and are made with far far better materials, everything from the woods to the metals used - especially for the bridges and bridge blocks. Not to mention they are much much easier to get 3rd party aftermarket parts for and can fit the same parts as on the MIA Fenders - things like scratch plates Fender scratch plates holes don't always line up yet alone fit properly on Squiers, and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

You can compare them all here, Squier vs MIM Fender vs MIA Fender, by the time you've upgraded a Squire to the ''same'' specs as a MIM Fender - which is a lot of upgrades if you're going for as close as possible, you've spent more than what it would cost to buy a MIM Fender, note the prices on the Fender website, are not what you will pay in a guitar shop, you will pay less than buying direct from Fender.

dazzajl · September 2023

The differences between the top level Squiers and bottom level Fenders are small enough to be undone by the inherent differences from one individual guitar to another. Pick up a Squier that feels right to you and it will serve you better than a Fender that you don’t bond with.

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

Yorkie said:

Do MiM Fenders have any features not normally found on good Squiers? Better necks, or more stable tuners, or thicker bodies, or…

I know, I know, a cooler headstock.

Yes, better necks, far far better machine heads, and depending on model of Squier thicker bodies - for example the cheaper Squiers like the Affinity don't have thick enough bodies for the Oak Grigsby blade selector to fit in and use the nasty cheap box style ones, the electronics on Squiers are nowhere nears as good as on MIM Fenders - pots wiring and things like that. Side by side the difference in quality is very very noticeable, both visually and feel.

PAL · September 2023

Any affordable guitar will lack the attention to fret finishing also in my experience the fret wire is not the same as found on more expensive guitars so it's worth factoring fret work or dressing into the future cost of the guitar or a possible refret !
Then electrics and pickups can be cheaper the other thing you will find is if the guitar has a trem the block will be thinner.
I think if you ad up the cost of addressing this issues it might be worth going for the more expensive options.

Cranky · September 2023

The MIM Standards had ceramic pickups (which sounded great), but when the Standard became the Player series in 2018 they switched to alnico pickups.

The one knock on the Players is the occasional sharp fret ends. Otherwise they are lovely to play and the hardware is an upgrade from a Squier. It is definitely more nuanced than the reverse snobbery “only difference is the name on the headstock” claim.

Funkfingers · September 2023

CavemanGrogg said:
MIM Fenders are Fenders made with the exact same parts as their American counterparts but assembled in Mexico - as in the unassembled parts are shipped from America to Mexico to be assembled into finished guitars.

Yes and no.

The only US-made Fender instruments that use the same hardware as MIM ones is the Performer Series (formerly known as American Special, Highway1 and California series). Ping Well machineheads and vibratos rather than Schaller, Sperzel or Gotoh.

For body woods, the magic words in Fender catalogues and web pages are Premium and Select. Typically, lower weight and more attractive grain.

Cutting to the chase, is a Squier as luxurious as a Fender? Probably not but, if you happen upon a Squier instrument that suits your hands, keep it. Some of them are pretty bloody good straight out of the box. Some benefit from well-chosen upgrades. I remain enormously fond of my VM Telecaster Custom II. The only parts I have changed are the machineheads, the string guide, the nut and the bridge saddles. Enormous fun for not much money.

OilCityPickups · September 2023

I had a MIM Fender (with upgraded pickups) and sold it because I have a Squier CV 70s Strat that felt better and I bonded with. It had Duncan Designed pickups when I got it, which, while okay, weren't as 'open' sounding as I like a Strat pickup to be. I upgraded the pickups to my Route 66 set and fitted CTS pots, CRL switch and Switchcraft jack. The tuners are still stock vintage style split post and are rock solid and stable. I have meant to 'upgrade' the trem block for ages ... but somehow have never gotten around to it as it sounds and feels so good as it is.

It's all about making music, so what feels good and sounds good to the individual guitarist is what is 'best' The audience will neither notice or care what Strat you play (unless you are at a blues jam where you earn Brownie points for brands).

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

Funkfingers said:

CavemanGrogg said:
MIM Fenders are Fenders made with the exact same parts as their American counterparts but assembled in Mexico - as in the unassembled parts are shipped from America to Mexico to be assembled into finished guitars.

Yes and no.

The only US-made Fender instruments that use the same hardware as MIM ones is the Performer Series (formerly known as American Special, Highway1 and California series). Ping Well machineheads and vibratos rather than Schaller, Sperzel or Gotoh.

For body woods, the magic words in Fender catalogues and web pages are Premium and Select. Typically, lower weight and more attractive grain.

Cutting to the chase, is a Squier as luxurious as a Fender? Probably not but, if you happen upon a Squier instrument that suits your hands, keep it. Some of them are pretty bloody good straight out of the box. Some benefit from well-chosen upgrades. I remain enormously fond of my VM Telecaster Custom II. The only parts I have changed are the machineheads, the string guide, the nut and the bridge saddles. Enormous fun for not much money.

Yet the loaded pickguard from the Ultra Luxe Strat I bought is a drop in fit for the MIM Player Plus Top Strat, and vice versa, yet would either not fit, or the holes where in the wrong positions for any of the Squiers Strats that I used to own.

prowla · September 2023

The Fender, unless you want to join the "my Squier is better than a Fender" club.

Sassafras · September 2023

I've had a Squier Tele and Strat. Neither impressed me.
They were dull & lifeless.
I don't understand their popularity.

OilCityPickups · September 2023

prowla said:

The Fender, unless you want to join the "my Squier is better than a Fender" club.

I think it entirely depends what you need from a guitar ... I wouldn't mind betting that that the average one of us here would do better to up our practise time rather than worry what's on the headstock. Most modern guitars, even cheaper ones, play better than the guitarists who own them :-)

Sesh · September 2023

I have a mim Fender mustang. I've had a squier mustang and a jaguar, both from the Vintage Modified range. There was nothing wrong with any of them. I do feel the Fender was better than the other two. But, that may be just some confirmation bias. And, as it happens it's about as near to "my ideal guitar" as I can get in my price range. They were all bought second hand so the price difference was a bit less than rrp.

prowla · September 2023

OilCityPickups said:

prowla said:

The Fender, unless you want to join the "my Squier is better than a Fender" club.

I think it entirely depends what you need from a guitar ... I wouldn't mind betting that that the average one of us here would do better to up our practise time rather than worry what's on the headstock. Most modern guitars, even cheaper ones, play better than the guitarists who own them :-)

Well. it was an answer to the question.

I've got one or two Squiers, but shifting to a better instrument does tend to give an improvement.

Yorkie · September 2023

All good points, interesting discussion to come out of a stupid question.

It should be said that in general I am way more interested in the second hand market, and rarely buy anything new. Ok, maybe strings every now and then, but you get the point.

Regarding ceramic pickups on MiM guitars, I am fairly sure early 2000s MiMs came with ceramics. I do not like ceramic pickups. I like low output AlNiCos, e.g. II. Can live with V.

In terms of woods, it has been mentioned that Fenders come in alder while Squiers are more like basswood and cheaper stuff. Again, depends on age and range I guess. My early 2000s Squier strat (similar to the ones that were made by AXL) has a full size alder body. My previous bullet strat (2005) was much thinner and lighter – a big difference between the two.

Plastics and hardware compatibility: I tried fitting a Fender-compatible loaded pickguard last year and ended up using the Dremel. The holes were not in the same places, the pots wouldn't fit the cavity, etc. And then when I tried moving the new pickups onto the Squier pickguard, they would get stuck in the holes and not move up or down because the holes were slightly smaller.

I would like to experiment with different pickup wirings, meaning my Squier is likely to be out of commission until I find the sound I think I could get, or exhaust all the possibilities. Plus, my birthday is coming and the wife has suggested I should get something made in Mexico and I don't like tacos and I bet you see where this could be going.

Jon

tomajoha · September 2023

Yorkie said:

All good points, interesting discussion to come out of a stupid question.

It should be said that in general I am way more interested in the second hand market, and rarely buy anything new. Ok, maybe strings every now and then, but you get the point.

Regarding ceramic pickups on MiM guitars, I am fairly sure early 2000s MiMs came with ceramics. I do not like ceramic pickups. I like low output AlNiCos, e.g. II. Can live with V.

In terms of woods, it has been mentioned that Fenders come in alder while Squiers are more like basswood and cheaper stuff. Again, depends on age and range I guess. My early 2000s Squier strat (similar to the ones that were made by AXL) has a full size alder body. My previous bullet strat (2005) was much thinner and lighter – a big difference between the two.

Plastics and hardware compatibility: I tried fitting a Fender-compatible loaded pickguard last year and ended up using the Dremel. The holes were not in the same places, the pots wouldn't fit the cavity, etc. And then when I tried moving the new pickups onto the Squier pickguard, they would get stuck in the holes and not move up or down because the holes were slightly smaller.

I would like to experiment with different pickup wirings, meaning my Squier is likely to be out of commission until I find the sound I think I could get, or exhaust all the possibilities. Plus, my birthday is coming and the wife has suggested I should get something made in Mexico and I don't like tacos and I bet you see where this could be going.

Jon

Don't discount a guitar on it being basswood IMO. A good basswood guitar is just as good as a decent ash or alder guitar and more often lighter than an average alder or ash body.

If its good enough for Jeff Beck..

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

tomajoha said:

Yorkie said:

All good points, interesting discussion to come out of a stupid question.

It should be said that in general I am way more interested in the second hand market, and rarely buy anything new. Ok, maybe strings every now and then, but you get the point.

Regarding ceramic pickups on MiM guitars, I am fairly sure early 2000s MiMs came with ceramics. I do not like ceramic pickups. I like low output AlNiCos, e.g. II. Can live with V.

In terms of woods, it has been mentioned that Fenders come in alder while Squiers are more like basswood and cheaper stuff. Again, depends on age and range I guess. My early 2000s Squier strat (similar to the ones that were made by AXL) has a full size alder body. My previous bullet strat (2005) was much thinner and lighter – a big difference between the two.

Plastics and hardware compatibility: I tried fitting a Fender-compatible loaded pickguard last year and ended up using the Dremel. The holes were not in the same places, the pots wouldn't fit the cavity, etc. And then when I tried moving the new pickups onto the Squier pickguard, they would get stuck in the holes and not move up or down because the holes were slightly smaller.

I would like to experiment with different pickup wirings, meaning my Squier is likely to be out of commission until I find the sound I think I could get, or exhaust all the possibilities. Plus, my birthday is coming and the wife has suggested I should get something made in Mexico and I don't like tacos and I bet you see where this could be going.

Jon

Don't discount a guitar on it being basswood IMO. A good basswood guitar is just as good as a decent ash or alder guitar and more often lighter than an average alder or ash body.

If its good enough for Jeff Beck..

Yes, not all basswood is equal, just like mahogany, maple, rosewood, and ebony, it comes in various qualities, from cheap shit junk, to really nice good quality wood.

OilCityPickups · September 2023

The Charvel Guthrie Goven Signature HSH has a mostly basswood body and is nearly three and a half thousand quid ...Musicman have a whole piece about why they use basswood.

Yorkie · September 2023

I said basswood is cheap. I did not say basswood is shit.

prowla · September 2023

theatreanchor said:

I’d take a modern Squire over an MIM any day.

Poor attention to detail...

willo · September 2023

It was cheaper for me to get a used Vintera than upgrade a Squier. Very happy with the Vintera.

thermionic · September 2023

There’s a load of “Fender Squier” guitars on ebay, I assume these are better than Squier but not as high quality as Fender?

TheBigDipper · September 2023

I've not bought a new Fender/Squier since my MIM Tele Deluxe FSR in 2015 - which was my alternative choice when I gave up trying to find a genuine '72 Deluxe that wasn't fake in some way or other. I always intended to change the electronics (the WRHB p/ups in those days were not - they were generic HBs in a big case).

But I did compare MIMs against Squiers for playability, wood, finish, etc. The Squiers were nowhere near as nicely built and the finishes were thicker and not so pleasing.

Snap · September 2023

I have a 1990 Korean Squier Tele, made in the Samick factory - plywood body. I have had it from new and it sill has stock bridge, tuners but all the guts are replaced, many times actually. It's been a great, tough guitar, but from stock it wasn't too good.
I'm about to put the neck into a new project though.
I also have one of the first release Fender Player 60s strats, MiM - that is a superb guitar, and I don't think I've played a strat that is significantly better. The hardware is brilliant.

So, I guess it really depends on what you are getting.

Having said all that, I am now looking for a second hand tele for my daughter - which may end up being a Squier 50s vibe tele.

Tbh, I think all you need to upgrade on a modern Squier are the pickups. That is the most significant improvement you can make. Teles are simple things, and you can fanny around with all the other parts, but you won't really make much difference to the tone unless you look at the pups. IMO, all this palaver about woods is pretty irrelevant on a Tele.

Maybe the other thing to look at are the saddles - brass or not, as that can make a little difference to the tone too. Also making sure there is a copper baseplate on the bridge pickup. I had a bridge pup with no baseplate and I experimented with a brass plate and a copper plate and all three permutations affected the bridge tone a bit. Settled on copper.
THe current version of the tele has tonerider hot classic pickups in it and they are great. I've also put a CTS wiring loom in it, which has made a little bit of difference, mainly in lack of crackles. I've got a 4 way switch mod to do too.
(mind you, I've been "doing" this since September 2020!!)

Good hunting, I love teles. Proper guitars - honest, straight up things that cover all the bases.

Grangousier · September 2023

I don't know whether this is a cliche, but reading this thread it just struck me: One main difference between the cheapest and the most expensive marques (?) is quality control, which needs actual, experienced people looking at individual instruments and is therefore quite expensive. But quality control isn't the same thing as quality - individual Squier instruments can vary hugely from not-great to very good - but it's an assurance that the specific marque can be relied on. The quality control of MiM is better, that of MiJ better still, and we trust Custom Shop not only to do things to a high level but not to let instruments that fall below that assured level out the door.

There's no question mark there, but it's a question, as in "am I correct to think this?" If so, applying the theory to the original question: You could find a Squier that's the equal or better than a MiM, but it's probably easier to find a suitable MiM, because they're built to more reliable standards.

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MiM Fender strat vs upgraded Squier strat

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