RAT vs RAT clones?

JamesC01 · September 2023

I'm looking for a distortion pedal, and have my eyes on boss ds1 or ds2, mxr super badass distortion, and the RAT. If I was going to get the RAT, what would be a better idea: Buy the original, or buy a clone for around the same price, but with some more features? The TC magus pro has a RAT, fat RAT and turbo RAT in it, and it's a bit cheaper than the original. But then there's always the concern of build quality, is it cheaper for a reason? I know the switch on it doesn't turn on until you release it, but I'm not sure I care about that. What do you think?

jellybelly · September 2023

I didn't like the Magus pro, for what it's worth. And I like RATs!!

If I were you I'd try for a used USA rat with the original chip in it.

DS-2 is a fine pedal too but a different sound and less flexible

monquixote · September 2023

Andertons did a shootout.

TLDR. They all sound quite similar give or take.

The DS-2 and Super Badass are both excellent (I use both) and I would take either over a RAT however they are also very different so it depends what you are going for.

merlin · September 2023

How about a Wampler Ratsbane?

GoFish · September 2023

Do you have any particular music in mind?

Rats are good as a straight ahead distortion but can do a decent low gain or a pretty convincing fuzz too. The filter knob is powerful but its hard to dial out a slight low mid murkiness tat lower gain that more modern boxes don't have. That's cofksniffing though and It's worth trying if you haven't before - a classic for a reason imo. The orignal LM308 chips are "better" but only in being smoother at more extreme settings. Some cheaper clones in recent years used the old chip but quality varies.

DS's have less going on but do their thing really well. I wouldn't consider them simliar to Rats, except insofar as they alll do distortion. Ds-2s do a better "wall of distortion" effect and don't really clean up. Both Boss pedals have the soft touch switch panel that makes Nirvana type stuff much easier, if that's what you want.

Cirrus · September 2023

GoFish said:

Some cheaper clones in recent years used the old chip but quality varies.

I have to admit I've wondered about that. Proco themselves stop using the chip decades ago because production ceased. Then really, really cheap clones from china appear in the last 10 years using the old LM308?

Just playing devil's advocate, the difference between the 308 and other op amps (OP07?) is pretty small. If they put OP07s in the clones and just screen printed LM308 onto them, would anyone know?

Vintage-T · September 2023

I've tried a bunch (life pedals, 1981 Drv, Mosky, Ratsbane, Big Ear Woodcutter etc etc), and they all pretty much sound the same. Currently have a vintage one with the LM308 and a modern rat 2, I prefer the modern one as it has a bit more volume. Just get a Rat 2 and you'll be happy if that's the sound you're after.

JamesC01 · September 2023

Vintage-T said:

I've tried a bunch (life pedals, 1981 Drv, Mosky, Ratsbane, Big Ear Woodcutter etc etc), and they all pretty much sound the same. Currently have a vintage one with the LM308 and a modern rat 2, I prefer the modern one as it has a bit more volume. Just get a Rat 2 and you'll be happy if that's the sound you're after.

How's the build quality on the modern RAT 2? I've read that the pots are prone to breaking.

Nerine · September 2023

I'd just get a Rat.

It's the OG for a reason.

Who's to say these modified versions are an improvement? It's all taste/subjective... To some they might be, to others, nope.

Musicman20 · September 2023

Try one of these!

3 RAT Tack Fuzz Guitar Bass Distortion Effector Effects Pedals Stomp Box Basses 1096879917319 | eBay

I bought one about 5 years ago and it's solid....

GoFish · September 2023

Cirrus said:

GoFish said:

Some cheaper clones in recent years used the old chip but quality varies.

I have to admit I've wondered about that. Proco themselves stop using the chip decades ago because production ceased. Then really, really cheap clones from china appear in the last 10 years using the old LM308?

Just playing devil's advocate, the difference between the 308 and other op amps (OP07?) is pretty small. If they put OP07s in the clones and just screen printed LM308 onto them, would anyone know?

I believe some of the original clones (Biyang and Mooer) used legit LM308s. There have also been a rash of counterfeit chips not made by Motorolla since then? So you certainly have a point. And yes, imo, the OP07 sounds good. A little throatier maybe, but that's me corksniffing again.

To the OP, a real Rat is cheap enough and does the rat thing. Dont get hung up on the chips (like we just have!) - it's also proper gig-worthy. It's got the Rat sound that you will recognise. It may not be for you in the long run, but it is that sound.

jellybelly · September 2023

And if you think it sounds a bit nasal and lacking bass at home, wait til you play it at gig volumes. IT JUST CUTS.

Vintage-T · September 2023

JamesC01 said:

Vintage-T said:

I've tried a bunch (life pedals, 1981 Drv, Mosky, Ratsbane, Big Ear Woodcutter etc etc), and they all pretty much sound the same. Currently have a vintage one with the LM308 and a modern rat 2, I prefer the modern one as it has a bit more volume. Just get a Rat 2 and you'll be happy if that's the sound you're after.

How's the build quality on the modern RAT 2? I've read that the pots are prone to breaking.

Mine's fine, so I guess that's all the objectivity I can have. I think I paid about £40 second hand for my Rat 2, and only £75 for my 1987 Rat. Best value for money dirt pedal there is.

steer · September 2023

Musicman20 said:

Try one of these!

3 RAT Tack Fuzz Guitar Bass Distortion Effector Effects Pedals Stomp Box Basses 1096879917319 | eBay

I bought one about 5 years ago and it's solid....

I also had one of them when they were going for about half that price new. It was great until the pots started to get scratchy - admittedly that was after many years.

ewal · September 2023

I got in to Rats via a Mooer Black Secret, esp the Turbo setting. Imo go the clone route until you know roughly what you like.

ETA: I've now got a Little Bear R.Attack, another cheapo with a Turbo setting and an EQD Life, a not so cheap Rat copy. Because one Rat isn't enough.

Sassafras · September 2023

Does 20 to 30 years of trouble free use count as reliable?

roberty · September 2023

Sorry to derail but I finished making this today with a really old LM308 can. They used to look like this lol

IMO the opamp doesn't matter :-) I just used it cos it's a bit funky and I'm a nerd. OP07 is fine

My favourite Rat is the turbo, a smidge tighter and fuller

JamesC01 · September 2023

Sassafras said:

Does 20 to 30 years of trouble free use count as reliable?

Well that would've been the older ones. The build-quality/QC apparently dropped a bit since 2008 when they started getting made in china.

roberty · September 2023

Go home, Ali Baba, you're drunk

AntonHunter · September 2023

roberty said:

Sorry to derail but I finished making this today with a really old LM308 can. They used to look like this lol

IMO the opamp doesn't matter :-) I just used it cos it's a bit funky and I'm a nerd. OP07 is fine

My favourite Rat is the turbo, a smidge tighter and fuller

Is Turbo the one with LED clipping? If so that's my favourite mode on the Tephra (Life Pedal clone), although I just prefer my stock Lil Rat, especially on low-gain.

ewal · September 2023

Yep, pretty sure Turbo is LED clipping. I set the gain on my R.Attack as much with my eyes as my ears.

theatreanchor · September 2023

Found the Jam Rattler to be quite quiet.

monquixote · September 2023

ewal said:

Yep, pretty sure Turbo is LED clipping. I set the gain on my R.Attack as much with my eyes as my ears.

Yep Turbo is LED, classic is silicon and Dirty is germanium.

guyinlyon · September 2023

JamesC01 said:

I'm looking for a distortion pedal, and have my eyes on boss ds1 or ds2, mxr super badass distortion, and the RAT. If I was going to get the RAT, what would be a better idea: Buy the original, or buy a clone for around the same price, but with some more features? The TC magus pro has a RAT, fat RAT and turbo RAT in it, and it's a bit cheaper than the original. But then there's always the concern of build quality, is it cheaper for a reason? I know the switch on it doesn't turn on until you release it, but I'm not sure I care about that. What do you think?

I have a Rat clone from Chicago Stompworks in the US. White Face Rat wiring, LM308 chip, quality components, hand built. They're currently $75 (£62). Oh yes, great sound...

https://www.chicagostompworks.com/product-page/mr-vermin-lm308n-rat-clone-black-finish

roberty · September 2023

AntonHunter said:

roberty said:

Sorry to derail but I finished making this today with a really old LM308 can. They used to look like this lol

IMO the opamp doesn't matter :-) I just used it cos it's a bit funky and I'm a nerd. OP07 is fine

My favourite Rat is the turbo, a smidge tighter and fuller

Is Turbo the one with LED clipping? If so that's my favourite mode on the Tephra (Life Pedal clone), although I just prefer my stock Lil Rat, especially on low-gain.

It is - LED clipping is the biggest change but there are other slight differences: http://guitar-fx-layouts.238.s1.nabble.com/file/n45577/Multi-RAT.png

GoFish · September 2023

@guyinlyon ; - Did you get yours direct? What were import charges like?

guyinlyon · September 2023

GoFish said:

@guyinlyon ; - Did you get yours direct? What were import charges like?

I bought mine from them when I was in the US. Send them an email and see what they'd charge for shipping. Even if you get dinged with import charges I couldn't see it being much more than £110 or so ($80mfor the pedal, $20 for the shipping, $25 for import duty (?).

Lebarque · September 2023

Thorpy Warthog all the way

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