Guitar prices new and used today are just ridiculous

ditchboy · September 2023

Voxman said:

ditchboy said:

I paid £1150 for my most recent strat, a pro ii. It’s absolutely superb and I’d consider it value for money. It’s the high end CS models which take the piss, is a CS 3 times as good as my pro? Absolutely not. Do I still want one? You bet.

That's a great price & I'd consider that very good vfm too. But I've just had a brief look and current prices for brand new (albeit there's a blue £1379 ex display at Project Music), are a 'Dark Knight' SSS at GAK for £1,416.99 & PMT £1357.59, & for a Sunburst, White etc £1749 (Gear4Music/Absolute Music) with PMT/Reidy's at £1,599. So a fair bit of variation but nothing at £1150 that I can see.

I should have clarified I picked it up second hand, it was flawless however. I can’t see me ever letting it go - maybe to fund a CS model one day when I consider myself worthy.

darthed1981 · September 2023

Dominic said:
Late middle aged sad old fucks who remember Led Zep /Hendrix / etc etc = disposable income , guitar fantasy , hobbyist

You've just copied and pasted meta tags from the HTML of this site for that haven't you?

notsopro · September 2023

Dominic said:

ICBM said:

On the other hand, the quality of low- to mid-priced guitars is higher than it's ever been, so you could argue that in fact, guitar prices - if based on quality - have actually come down... it's just the high-end stuff which is daft.

This is absolutely true
You can get a fantastic guitar for relatively little money.....something like a recent Mex Tele
I have a Brad Paisley Tele ......it's easily the best tele I have ever played and I've had all the 'Masterbuilt' Nocaster etc etc etc
Thing is ,I suspect Guitar companies have long since realised that in today's world it's not the dream of most youngsters to play guitar in a band .............in fact it's about as cool as the oboe was when we were kids .......
So who is your market ?
Late middle aged sad old fucks who remember Led Zep /Hendrix / etc etc = disposable income , guitar fantasy , hobbyist etc etc etc
add salt and Price accordingly
Overall sales are probably 40% of what they were in 1980 .......so the need is to make extra profit from those sales
Marketing has become so much more clever/sophisticated .......so they rely on bullshit and snake oil and it works !
Fender Master-built strat £8000 .........yeah right .......I'll take the 6 year old Golf GTI with low mileage thanks

if you're taking the golf gti over the master built strat, I'm pretty sure you're not the target market for master built strats.

guitars are only considered overpriced if you are looking at it from a value objective, people don't buy really expensive guitars because they are 'good value' they buy them because they want them. All this 'ah yeah but £8k for a guitar is dumb because my £1500 one is just as good'. like honestly, who cares? do they care you like your £1500 guitar? No? do you care they paid a massive premium for the guitar they wanted? No. so what is this all about? Just all seems like utter nonsense to me.

Kittyfrisk · September 2023

Deadman said:

I’m specifically looking at second hand standard US Teles and Strats at the moment. In my experience, a lot of the retailers are pricing significantly cheaper than private sellers. I’m seeing lots of retailers at around the £800-£900 mark whereas private sellers are still asking up to £1200 for the same spec guitars.

It’s an interesting time. I spend a lot of time scouring the markets most days and it’s become very obvious to me in the last couple of months.

How much do market cleaners get in wages these days?

Nerine · September 2023

I think the guitar market is as it is because weirdly, people seem to get bored of their guitars rather than their licks.

I’m done with the tone chasing. It’s utterly pointless. A couple of guitars. A modeller (all the tones). A SS power amp and a couple of 1x12 cabs. Mega.

I sound better when I practice. Not when I buy new gear.

My gas has never been lower and putting up my higher end gear for sale has been totally cathartic.

KevS · September 2023

I think it depends on the actual model..I will never be able to afford a Les Paul Custom..I don't remember the Gap between Standard and Custom being that big before..The Big 2 make some good guitars though .I played one of the present Les Paul Classics a couple of weeks ago..You couldn't really want for more in terms of playability..My cousin has an R8..I much prefer the feel of my old Les Paul Classic.They don't feel that different apart from the neck carve..,,oh,,but the neck tenon..How much does that really matter..?.I usually end up changing pickups anyway,,I like what I like.. if I bought a guitar that the pickups had to be keepers,,I would buy nothing..

Also the so called Standard models often come with premium features..My Les Paul Standard from the early 00's doesn't have coil splits..I think the present Les Paul Classic is more like the old Standard..

...I much prefer the Fender Performer Strat to the Professional 2 because of the bigger frets..Custom Shop Strats,you have to take off the neck to adjust it,I am not a masochist..They market the idea as better luthiery from a bygone age when in fact a better ,more convenient way was introduced..Feck that..

Seymour Duncan prices I think have raised a lot..They are getting near the prices of more boutique brands like Bare Nipples..Seymour had affordable solutions before..Kind of like the Boss pedal of the pickup world..Bare Nipples are a bit more in the Lollar type of area I think..

guitarjack66 · September 2023

theatreanchor said. It’s what you do with it that matters.

As I keep saying to Mrs guitarjack!

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

I honestly don't think the prices of new instruments, not just guitars, is bad, the second hand market on the other hand is comedic gold, to the point where it's now extremely common to see second hand guitars, and second hand guitars that have been screwed with, that are 6 months old, priced at stupid amounts above a brand example of an identical guitar, just look at the PRS Silver Sky.

OilCityPickups · September 2023

Seymour Duncan prices I think have raised a lot..They are getting near the prices of more boutique brands like Bare Nipples..Seymour had affordable solutions before..Kind of like the Boss pedal of the pickup world..Bare Nipples are a bit more in the Lollar type of area I think..

I don't think £119 Is too bad for example for a Duncan JB - maybe that's because I make pickups everyday mind ... and know what goes into them - also bear in mind there are a few thousand miles of jet fuel or container ship oil that are added into that price :-)

GoldenEraGuitars · September 2023

Danielsguitars said:

The more they go up makes hand made much more value for money or the higher end stuff anyway

6k or 7k is just nuts for a Gibson imo, I'd never have that sort of spare money kicking about.

Absolutely. Obviously I love that fender is getting more expensive on a nearly daily basis. And I look at what the likes of you and kithara are doing and I think why wouldn’t someone want handmade?

I think the craziest price increases I’ve seen is some of the new MIM fenders.. but again all you’re really paying for is marketing/massive overheads/wages of an overinflated workforce.

slacker · September 2023

Part of the problem is that us lmasf remember when pre CBS strats were £450 but forget we were on £45 a week.

I remember in the 08 recession someone asked John hall in the ric forum if he was going to reduce prices. He said no they were going to use the reduced orders to catch up the 2 year back log. Ric put their prices up by 20 per cent.

Fender and Gibson at this time had long used offshore manufacturing to make cheaper models and started making models between models. The us std prices went up when the cheaper us versions came in. Vintage went up. CS prices went up. Various limited editions such as master designed etc puts a master built 3 or 4 layers above a CS. Hence 8k for a CNC piece of alder and maple. Are they good? Oh yes 5k better than my nos? Nope.

I think all of this follows the vintage market. 10 years ago a 50s LP jr was 3 to 4 k. I saved for one. I've got the money but they are 9k. Nobody's going to spend 5k on a reissue at 3k for a real one but now?

I'm now looking at CS teles but they are about double what I want to pay. I ll watch and wait

Offset · September 2023

Danielsguitars said:

6k or 7k is just nuts for a Gibson imo, I'd never have that sort of spare money kicking about.

Regardless of how much spare wedge I had lying around, I'd never spend £6k-£7k on a guitar.

Bigsby · September 2023

Voxman said:

I'm completely allowing for normal inflation here but it seems to me that when I bought my guitars used they were all at realistic prices as compared to my salary at the time. My Les Paul cost me £650 and equated to around a week and a half's net salary. Now, even on a higher salary that has kept pace with inflation (moves, promotions, reviews, bonuses) , the equivalent today would be around a month's net salary.

This didn't seem to fit with my experience, so I plugged the cost of my first decent guitar in 1978, (a Guild S-60, single pickup, US-made, so the lowest end of the US-made guitar market) into the BoE's inflation calculator, and today's price came out at just under £1,000. This was all I could afford from my first 'proper' job; SGs and Strats were out of reach.

End of last year I bought a US-made Performer Strat for £999, I'd say that's a lot more guitar for the money.

The Bell's catalogue for 1978 has a Fender Strat for £364 (not sure how typical their prices were, and it also seems to come without a case), this comes out at £1,885 - way above Performer prices, and even above Am Pro II prices, yet I'm confident those would be better guitars.

I guess a lot comes down to what years you pick to make comparisons with. On one hand we have constant but varying inflation to factor in, on the other lower manufacturing costs from mechanisation and increased competition, which will have occurred at various points over the years. In my comparison above I've tried to avoid the additional factor of labour costs in different parts of the world - but they've also been a huge factor in the overall guitar market.

JD50 · September 2023

Still bargins to be had. I recently picked up Fender Duo Sonic from Gear4musics b stock on eBay for £230.... it had a chip by the bottom strap pin.
Great little guitar, resonant , stays in tune and pick ups sound great.

Gilly · September 2023

Deadman said:

I’m specifically looking at second hand standard US Teles and Strats at the moment. In my experience, a lot of the retailers are pricing significantly cheaper than private sellers. I’m seeing lots of retailers at around the £800-£900 mark whereas private sellers are still asking up to £1200 for the same spec guitars.

It’s an interesting time. I spend a lot of time scouring the markets most days and it’s become very obvious to me in the last couple of months.

The shops have adjusted to the market whereas many private sellers haven’t yet (or they don’t really need to sell so are listing speculatively).

If shops are selling a US strat for £800-900 then people who really need to sell must be accepting about £400-500 from the shop. That’s the real market. The private sellers on Reverb are living in a fantasy land hoping they’ll get lucky.

RaymondLin · September 2023

I could not get half of my guitars now if I buy them together at their current market rate

Guitars I could and would be able to afford

Taylor GS Mini - I can afford this again
PRS SE One (used)
Fender Roadworn with RW (higher than before but I can afford to drop £1k on one

Guitars that I wouldn't be able to justify, at least not all of them.

Palir Titan Tele - they are like £2k, I paid £1k so no, probably not.
Taylor T5, new. They are about £2k now, so won't be able to justify that. I paid £1200.
PRS 305 £1500 used (I could....if I really wanted it, but I paid about the £1k mark)
PRS Custom 24 10 top, new....I am not going to spend £4k+ on a new one.
PRS SC58, new. The closest thing now would be a McCarty 594 new, again, not spending £4k on a guitar.
Gibson CS Class 5, I think it cost me £1850 used, reverb has them around £3-4k mark. I just cannot get this again.

I would probably end up with just 1 PRS and 1 Gibson if I had to buy again from the 2nd group of guitars, that would still set me back about £7-8k if to buy again, which was around the total cost of all 6 put together.

Voxman · September 2023

Bigsby said:

Voxman said:

I'm completely allowing for normal inflation here but it seems to me that when I bought my guitars used they were all at realistic prices as compared to my salary at the time. My Les Paul cost me £650 and equated to around a week and a half's net salary. Now, even on a higher salary that has kept pace with inflation (moves, promotions, reviews, bonuses) , the equivalent today would be around a month's net salary.

This didn't seem to fit with my experience, so I plugged the cost of my first decent guitar in 1978, (a Guild S-60, single pickup, US-made, so the lowest end of the US-made guitar market) into the BoE's inflation calculator, and today's price came out at just under £1,000. This was all I could afford from my first 'proper' job; SGs and Strats were out of reach.

End of last year I bought a US-made Performer Strat for £999, I'd say that's a lot more guitar for the money.

The Bell's catalogue for 1978 has a Fender Strat for £364 (not sure how typical their prices were, and it also seems to come without a case), this comes out at £1,885 - way above Performer prices, and even above Am Pro II prices, yet I'm confident those would be better guitars.

I guess a lot comes down to what years you pick to make comparisons with. On one hand we have constant but varying inflation to factor in, on the other lower manufacturing costs from mechanisation and increased competition, which will have occurred at various points over the years. In my comparison above I've tried to avoid the additional factor of labour costs in different parts of the world - but they've also been a huge factor in the overall guitar market.

I think the prices I probably had in mind when I posted were probably more for Gibson & PRS and s/hand prices (hence used my LPC as an example, rather than perhaps Fender), and the inflated Custom Shop prices for both Gibson & Fender. Seeing that P90 Les Paul Custom for £6,000 & the s/hand prices for a LP Custom, and new & used R8/R9's etc were big 'influencers' for my post.

So I accept that there are 'winners & losers' in the pricing game so to speak. But I've noticed that even the cost of some Epiphone's seem to have really jumped up too.

guitars4you · September 2023

OilCityPickups said:

Seymour Duncan prices I think have raised a lot..They are getting near the prices of more boutique brands like Bare Nipples..Seymour had affordable solutions before..Kind of like the Boss pedal of the pickup world..Bare Nipples are a bit more in the Lollar type of area I think..

I don't think £119 Is too bad for example for a Duncan JB - maybe that's because I make pickups everyday mind ... and know what goes into them - also bear in mind there are a few thousand miles of jet fuel or container ship oil that are added into that price :-)

You’ll know better than me Ash how many different delivery bills you have in order to make a humbucker- ie how many different factories deliver components to you - Hence how many fuel charges are incurred - Let alone the final fuel bill to the end user -I’m guessing 5-8 different suppliers to you

Now extend that to each Strat built in California - there will be a separate fuel bill/ delivery charge for the alder, the maple and the rosewood for starters - The case - At least 1 fuel bill for the hardware but could easily be 2 or 3 - Bill for the 5 way switch and another bill for the pots Then ditto for the tone caps - At least one fuel bill for the scratch plate and back plate and maybe an additional bill for the knobs switch tip and trem arm tip - And again as per the above for the components to make a pickup then I day say 3/4 different factories at least - Finally the card box to be shipped to Fender in order to ship the goods to the dealer where ever that is

Shipping cost have risen a lot over recent years

And we have not even looked at the costs involved in building the guitar- How many machines have to be turned on to help with the production - How many light bulbs. The air con etc in each factory - All using electricity that has risen in price significantly -And you need to factor in those costs for both the Californian factory and for all the factories that make components for Fender in order for that Strat to be built

And we’ve not even looked at the cost of the components but take into account the extra cost of wood these days - Huge forest fires and various termites are having a big impact in this field

price of nickel has risen significantly as well due to various factors that has nothing to do with guitars

bloodandtears · September 2023

hollywoodrox said:

I nearly made a post earlier when I saw a neon pink MIM Charvel San dimas £1599
they’re hard to find in that colour I guess & I’ve always liked them but I’ve usually paid about £400 to £600 for used San Dimas in the past

https://reverb.com/uk/item/73516406-charvel-pro-mod-san-dimas-style-1-hh-fr-m-2016-2019-neon-pink

wow.. just wow... I could get an MIJ SD and have it refinished neon pink for half that price..

utter greed!!

Chuffola · September 2023

Are the second hand guitars at high prices actually selling? My recent experiences of selling via Gumtree / Facebook are not good.

I've had an excellent condition Vintera Road Worn Fiesta Red 50s Strat for sale locally for weeks at £550 (which I thought was a good price - probably £900 - £1000 new). Best offer I've had from someone who wanted me to post it at my cost and he offered £450. I've taken the ad down now - seems to be little selling. Same gear re-advertised locally and endlessly. Some at stupid prices and some very reasonable. Nothing much seems to move though.

dindude · September 2023

Chuffola said:

Are the second hand guitars at high prices actually selling? My recent experiences of selling via Gumtree / Facebook are not good.

I've had an excellent condition Vintera Road Worn Fiesta Red 50s Strat for sale locally for weeks at £550 (which I thought was a good price - probably £900 - £1000 new). Best offer I've had from someone who wanted me to post it at my cost and he offered £450. I've taken the ad down now - seems to be little selling. Same gear re-advertised locally and endlessly. Some at stupid prices and some very reasonable. Nothing much seems to move though.

I agree, secondhand is a tough sell right now. I also think new prices are starting to soften. Coda have 5 or so new Custom Shop Fenders at £2999, stil silly money but a year ago you wouldn’t see anything under £3.5k and they seemed to be climbing every week.

American Vintage II, also seemed to have softened from £2k to around £1700.

Philly_Q · September 2023

I've sort of given up thinking about current guitar prices, I see the Fender and Gibson custom shop guitars going for £5k and upwards (way upwards), the big PRS and Music Man price increases... They're just there to be looked at. Most guitars which appeal to me have gone beyond my reach, or at least beyond what I'd be prepared to pay.

But I just happened to see this on the Peach site - Ibanez Kiko Loureiro signature, made in Japan, for £1,776. I'm not going to buy it, I don't follow Ibanez prices at all, and yes it's discounted but that seems positively "cheap" compared to some other big-brand stuff.

https://www.peachguitars.com/ibanez-signature-models-kiko100-kiko-loureiro-megadeth-transparent-ruby-red.htm

Ibanez Signature Models KIKO100 - Kiko Loureiro Megadeth - Transparent Ruby Red

Ibanez Signature Models KIKO100 - Kiko Loureiro Megadeth - Transparent Ruby Red

BillDL · September 2023

I bought my 79 Stratocaster new in 1980 for £475 when my net weekly pay was £35. That's 14 weeks of pay assuming I had to pay for absolutely nothing else like food, bus fare, rent, etc, so it was a case of me saving up for quite a while (probably about 8 months) to afford it. How does that compare? The equivalent is probably about £1,800 now. At most I would only have to "save" for 8 weeks, but could buy it outright from a month's net wages if I had no other bills to pay. 8 months to save vs 8 weeks to save.

guitars4you · September 2023

BillDL said:

I bought my 79 Stratocaster new in 1980 for £475 when my net weekly pay was £35. That's 14 weeks of pay assuming I had to pay for absolutely nothing else like food, bus fare, rent, etc, so it was a case of me saving up for quite a while (probably about 8 months) to afford it. How does that compare? The equivalent is probably about £1,800 now. At most I would only have to "save" for 8 weeks, but could buy it outright from a month's net wages if I had no other bills to pay. 8 months to save vs 8 weeks to save.

I think that was a similar ratio back in 1962 for an pre-CBS Strat - What many now see as the holy grail

Ave UK wage today is around £600 a week - Times that by 14 and you are in excess of 8K - As you say, times that by 8 and you are looking at a very nice guitar for pushing 5K

GoldenEraGuitars · September 2023

guitars4you said:

BillDL said:

I bought my 79 Stratocaster new in 1980 for £475 when my net weekly pay was £35. That's 14 weeks of pay assuming I had to pay for absolutely nothing else like food, bus fare, rent, etc, so it was a case of me saving up for quite a while (probably about 8 months) to afford it. How does that compare? The equivalent is probably about £1,800 now. At most I would only have to "save" for 8 weeks, but could buy it outright from a month's net wages if I had no other bills to pay. 8 months to save vs 8 weeks to save.

I think that was a similar ratio back in 1962 for an pre-CBS Strat - What many now see as the holy grail

Ave UK wage today is around £600 a week - Times that by 14 and you are in excess of 8K - As you say, times that by 8 and you are looking at a very nice guitar for pushing 5K

WHHHHAAATTT???

Maybe I should go and get a real job again? Lol

57Deluxe · September 2023

Curiously with so many guitars sold and available in massive variations, we have no notable 'big' new guitar based artists throng the 'chatrs'.

Fishboy7 · September 2023

Has anyone ever asked a seller why they've listed something more than it's readily available for new? I'd love to know the thought process.

impmann · September 2023

It was so much cheaper years ago.
The grass was greener, too.
The quality was better.
It sounded better.
It was simpler.
Music was better.

All bullshit. Rose tinted nonsense.

Musicman20 · September 2023

Well I couldn't afford my Musicman collection now in 2023. They'd be 2-3 times the price I paid each, or more. Yes, I am accounting for my salary increase.

I also just wouldn't pay it, despite how amazing they are.

But they've significantly changed their model from more high volume sales to less American made guitars/basses with a focus on limited edition models. Everything else is mostly go to the Sterling range. I think covid forced this change.

My USA SG was less than half the price of the 2023 range, back in 2017. That is a BIG jump.

NelsonP · September 2023

Have you seen the price of cars these days? £50k for a VW Golf? £30k for a 3 year old Skoda with 20k miles. Lol.

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Guitar prices new and used today are just ridiculous

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