British electric guitar makers who make their own necks and bodies

Danielsguitars · September 2023

Sporky said:

I suspect "handmade" includes running a pin router around a laser-cut template.

But not a CNC machine following the same profile that was used to make the template (with the same amount of prep and finishing needed).

I make my own pin router templates lol

I will be outsourcing some inlay fretboards for cnc but I still pick the wood, this just speeds some build times up.

I suppose you're still including handmade with buying in a body and neck made elsewhere on a cnc, it's Just not the same, all I want to know is who is doing what because I can't produce a basic guitar less than about £1800

WezV · September 2023

Sporky said:

I suspect "handmade" includes running a pin router around a laser-cut template.

But not a CNC machine following the same profile that was used to make the template (with the same amount of prep and finishing needed).

That is a discussion on tool choice.

This, as far as I can tell, is a discussion on outsourcing. Which every builder does to some degree...

fretfinder · September 2023

Ivison Guitars make their guitar bodies and neck from raw lumber.

steveh · September 2023

Danielsguitars said:
I would like some transparency with what is actually made by the maker because it's not the same outsourcing and just assembling rather than going wood shopping and making from scratch, there's a time and price difference.
I don't care who's doing what but it would be nice to know so people have an idea why hand made costs X over cheaper Y

This exactly.

SVL guitars anyone?

prowla · September 2023

Some:

There are a couple of UK folks (DC & HW) who make replica guitars & basses to order.
Mick Johnson does some, https://www.mickjohnsonguitars.com/
Who's the bloke who partners with Andertons? They made a thing about being UK-made.

jeztone2 · September 2023

If I spec’d out my Feline T type with the Schecter Custom shop, it would have cost twice as much and had far less hand work on it. So I’m not sure what people want on here. If a builder raises prices, you all complain, yet you want the magic unicorn tears as well.

elstoof · September 2023

Fender “master builders” get their bodies and necks made by someone else running the CNC machine don’t they?

Sporky · September 2023

Danielsguitars said:

I suppose you're still including handmade with buying in a body and neck made elsewhere on a cnc, it's Just not the same, all I want to know is who is doing what because I can't produce a basic guitar less than about £1800

I think I was exploring what "handmade" might mean.

I don't think you're being unreasonable in wanting to know what elements of the production of an instrument were carried out in-house.

I don't think there's anything inherently bad about CNC, or buying in pickups, or not cutting down the tree yourself.

I wonder if any guitar companies have made their own fretwire. Or their own capacitors!

Sporky · September 2023

elstoof said:

Fender “master builders” get their bodies and necks made by someone else running the CNC machine don’t they?

I believe so.

There are many different skills involved I ending up with a good finished guitar, and it's rare for one person to have them all.

euan · September 2023

Yeah from video I watched. The custom shop has its own CNC staff and machines. Master builders pick from those to master build.

fretmeister · September 2023

Shuker

https://shukerguitars.co.uk/guitars/

Amazing instruments.

Status-Graphite

ACG
https://acguitars.co.uk/

Dave_Mc · September 2023

WezV said:
You can't call yourself a luthier if you didn't chop the tree down yourself.

In all honesty, I don't think it matters if a builder does everything or not... it's the end result that matters.

I do like to do as much as myself as possible, but I'm building one off guitars.

I don't bother so much when making standard Fender style stuff. I will happily use decent parts and focus my build time on stuff that can't come off the shelf. But then I don't do as much of that stuff these days for that reason.

I mean ideally you'd grow it yourself. From a seed (acorn?) from a tree you previously grew. From a seed from a tree you previously...

Seriously, though, I agree that it's the end result that matters but like @Sporky ;I also like transparency. Transparency actually (arguably!) increases the chances that it'll be the end result that matters rather than otherwise...

(Just to be clear I'm absolutely not accusing you of not being transparent, Wez, I know you're one of the good guys!)

floeighty2 said:
Ancoats Guitars does as well.

I think he has a cheaper model now too with a neck made by someone else (which he then works on himself), but he's very clear about that.

Svartmetall · September 2023

Haydn Williams - williamsguitars.co.uk - absolutely top notch instruments, and a sound bloke to boot.

TrentGuitars · September 2023

The CNC, much like the router, gives you an unrefined building block for a guitar, think of it like a rough casting. All the handwork and time is all in the same place for both methods, it’s in the sanding, fine fit up and finish. Both methods are just a way of templating. The CNC doesn’t have bad days like a human can when they set the router height incorrectly and take a nice chunk out of a costly blank and sometimes taking the template with it.

I documented my pre cnc process on here closely, and when I got the cnc too. I certainly enjoy the process with the cnc much more so than balancing a router on a template.

Bigsby · September 2023

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Danielsguitars said:

WezV said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Fishboy7 said:

I imagine most do - seeing as that's the two main parts of the actual guitar

Some “F type” bolt on neck “builders” will use bought in bodies and necks though, as opposed to making them themselves because it’s cheaper to do and they don’t have the facilities to manufacture a body and neck.

Plus there seems to be a growing number where most of the woodwork is outsourced to someone with the appropriate machines.

I would like some transparency with what is actually made by the maker because it's not the same outsourcing and just assembling rather than going wood shopping and making from scratch, there's a time and price difference.

I don't care who's doing what but it would be nice to know so people have an idea why hand made costs X over cheaper Y

I see a lot of “handmade” nonsense getting thrown about and theres obviously something strange when a “handmade telecaster” is £1200, for example. These people/companies are either lying to their customer base or enjoy paying themselves £3.64 an hour because the materials and overheads alone wouldn’t make it feesable.

Perhaps economies of scale? A Gordon Smith T-style guitar can certainly be bought for £1,200 or less if you don't go crazy on the specs, and they're not lying when they say they're handmade in the UK. (You can see it for yourself by visiting the workshop or watching one of their workshop videos).

WezV · September 2023

TrentGuitars said:

The CNC, much like the router, gives you an unrefined building block for a guitar, think of it like a rough casting. All the handwork and time is all in the same place for both methods, it’s in the sanding, fine fit up and finish. Both methods are just a way of templating. The CNC doesn’t have bad days like a human can when they set the router height incorrectly and take a nice chunk out of a costly blank and sometimes taking the template with it.

I documented my pre cnc process on here closely, and when I got the cnc too. I certainly enjoy the process with the cnc much more so than balancing a router on a template.

CNC is great.

I got my laser cutter earlier this year and it has given my creativity a massive boost. I don't consider the guitars it has helped with to be any more or less "hand made".

I will be investing in a CNC router as soon as I have funds! I did think it wasn't worth it for making one-offs like I do, but I'm starting to see how it would still be massively beneficial for that.

Where I think CNC is relevant to this outsourcing conversation comes down to who is doing the design work and making the choices that turn it into a successful build. Someone in your situation could theoretically send your CAD and wood choices to a 3rd party, and the output would still be that persons work in every way that is important. I'm not sure the same applies to someone who sends a sketch to a CNC operator/guitar factory and gets them to turn it into a working design and produces parts ready for final assembly.

OilCityPickups · September 2023

I think some sense has to be talked when discussing outsourcing. Everyone outsources to a degree. I don't cast the alnico for pickup magnets and nor does any Luthier who builds his (or her) own pickups. Neither do I injection mould my humbucker bobbins bobbins or draw and coat my own copper wire. I do laser cut all my fibre flatwork, We all do 'in house' what makes economic/quality sense. We also make parts in house for a couple of other UK pickup winders who don't want to invest to the degree we have in machinery. I don't think that makes them any less 'hand builders of pickups' than we are.

Sporky · September 2023

I'm not sure "handmade" is a terribly useful term. It tells you, at best, something about the level of effort put in, but nothing at all about the level of quality that emerges.

Is something still handmade if I use power tools? What about machinery?

stickyfiddle · September 2023

Sporky said:

I'm not sure "handmade" is a terribly useful term. It tells you, at best, something about the level of effort put in, but nothing at all about the level of quality that emerges.

Is something still handmade if I use power tools? What about machinery?

Power tools aren't allowed. You must first forge your own steel, then cut your own drill bits on a hand-turned lathe, itself hewn by hand from the tree you cut down yourself, using an flint axe knapped yourself, bound to another bit of home-grown tree with string that you wove yourself from whatever material is best for making axes. etc etc ad absurdum

SquireJapan · September 2023

> 'If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe'

As a slight aside (not to derail the thread), a few time times I've given my own assembled partscasters (and in once case, literally just a pile of bits) to Feline and asked them to "make it good".

There's a think I think of Michelangelo working at the marble quarries so he can pick the good bits to work on. As an excuse for me to compare myself to Michelangelo, I've had a lot of good results buying well used (which tends to mean 80s/90s that have been played a LOT) Warmoth necks off eBay, and found that I've gotten some good results.

Not sure how relevant the above is now I've typed it, but it's there now

I'm on a whole EDM/sampled thing at the min, and have been learning how people take samples and make new music. That's a bit of a mind-bender for me. I'm starting to understand more about "the sampler as an instrument" thing, which if I'm honest, I used to think was mostly crap.

Something something ... it's what you make of it? Dunno!

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British electric guitar makers who make their own necks and bodies

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