Query failed: connection to localhost:9312 failed (errno=111, msg=Connection refused). Fender’s post boom cancellations! - Guitar Discussions on The Fretboard
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UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45

Fender’s post boom cancellations!

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  • CavemanGroggCavemanGrogg Frets: 2357
    ICBM said:
    CavemanGrogg said:

    How are you getting even ballpark figures or financial information about the liquidity to debt ratio of a privately owned company, these documents and information are not available to nor made public
    Google it. The figures aren't up to date, but they're unlikely to have improved dramatically if they currently have hundreds of thousands of cancelled orders.

    stickyfiddle said:
    ICBM said:
    How are you getting even ballpark figures or financial information about the liquidity to debt ratio of a privately owned company, these documents and information are not available to nor made public
    Google it. The figures aren't up to date, but they're unlikely to have improved dramatically if they currently have hundreds of thousands of cancelled orders.
    Yep. When you're as big as Fender everyone wants to put a press release out when you do a deal

    $400m facility agreed under 2 years ago: 
    https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/fender-musical-instruments-completes-400m-term-loan-tight-to-talk-terms-67724434

    And the majority shareholder is Servco Pacific, who bought at least some shares from TPG Growth. These are institutional investors; the typical private equity firms that take on companies with the explicit intention of growing the market cap and selling out a few years later.

    https://www.axios.com/2020/01/28/servco-pacific-fender-tpg-growth#:~:text=Servco%20Pacific%20acquired%20a%20majority,co%2Dinvestment%20partner%20TPG%20Growth.

    I'm sorry but none of that information is worth the bytes it takes up to store it, there is no mention of liquidity to debt ratio, no matter how much you Google, nor is there any EPS information anywhere - purpose use of jargon here as if you don't know what EPS stands for or is you do not know the first thing about judging a company's financial position, and these two pieces of information are not even a fraction of a % of the information one would need to make any sort of judgement, or estimation on FMIC's financials and financial stability, though they are the first two things everybody looks at when looking into a company's finances.

    Don't forget people have been saying for decades now that Fender and Gibson are either a whisker away from collapsing due to bad finances and debt, if not outright closing due to bad finances and debt, yet both companies are not only still open, but are still employing thousands if not tens of thousands of staff - just look at the number of brands and what brands these two companies own between them.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 69426

    Don't forget people have been saying for decades now that Fender and Gibson are either a whisker away from collapsing due to bad finances and debt, if not outright closing due to bad finances and debt, yet both companies are not only still open, but are still employing thousands if not tens of thousands of staff - just look at the number of brands and what brands these two companies own between them.
    Did you notice that Gibson filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection about five years ago? Part of the cause of that was buying up a lot of other brands. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/05/01/gibson-guitar-chapter-11-bankruptcy/567821002/

    But you may know better.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • CavemanGroggCavemanGrogg Frets: 2357
    edited September 2023
    ICBM said:

    Don't forget people have been saying for decades now that Fender and Gibson are either a whisker away from collapsing due to bad finances and debt, if not outright closing due to bad finances and debt, yet both companies are not only still open, but are still employing thousands if not tens of thousands of staff - just look at the number of brands and what brands these two companies own between them.
    Did you notice that Gibson filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection about five years ago? Part of the cause of that was buying up a lot of other brands. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/05/01/gibson-guitar-chapter-11-bankruptcy/567821002/

    But you may know better.

    And yet it's still going, I take it you know what ''Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection'' actually is and means? There are 6 forms, types, or ''Chapters'' if you prefer, of bankruptcy in the US, and the number of companies who have filled for it - Chapter 11, that have not only never ceased to operate or trade, but have also done so multiple times will shock you, not just the number of these companies, but also who these companies are, as in how well known they are that they are household names and instantly recognised world wide.  Hell there are even companies that are represented on here that have done it, and multiple times too I might add.

    To save you from all the googling and reading, Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection, is basically debt restructuring, granted it's a bit more complicated and involved than a traditional restructuring of debts, though that is essentially what it is.

    Perhaps with all you financial wisdom, trading experience, and research into company finances you can explain why FNDR, is valued at US$0.00, and has not been traded for a very very long time, nor has it's valuation changed, or perhaps FNDR's filing with the Securities Exchange Commission and the numbers that where submitted to the S.E.C.?  Or even perhaps what FDNR is, as in what is the letter grouping of ''FDNR'' is called - and I don't mean that FDNR represents Fender/FMIC but rather what the 4 letter grouping is called.
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5078
    Fender had filed to go public 11 years ago or so but pulled it when they decided the IPO was overvalued and their debt load was too high. Not sure the fiscal road travelled after that but there have definitely been ups and downs… 

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  • CavemanGroggCavemanGrogg Frets: 2357
    Whitecat said:
    Fender had filed to go public 11 years ago or so but pulled it when they decided the IPO was overvalued and their debt load was too high. Not sure the fiscal road travelled after that but there have definitely been ups and downs… 


    Exactly, they tested the waters, and decided it wasn't for them so decided to remain privately owned instead.  Hence why any financial information after that potential IPO is not in the public domain, there's been many claims, guesses and estimates, but nothing concrete and backed by audits.

    I was one of the people following that potential IPO like a deranged stalker at the time, as I wanted in on Fender at the time.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 12794
    edited September 2023 tFB Trader
    I was led to believe that at the time, the Fender route to a public domain failed for a few reasons

    Company was potentially over valued

    The Core brand on its own, Fender, was no where near big enough to go public - As a result they purchased other companies/brands to bolt them on to FMIC to achieve a greater turnover/potential - But potential investors thought FMIC had no new ideas to bring to the market - No new technology - No new markets - So little hope of further expansion/growth - In short the market and brand was maxed out

    Probably a big factor at the time was Guitar Centre - FMIC's biggest customer - And GC where, still are, in a right mess with their debt status to be effectively in the garbage bin according to Moody's - It is/was such a big issue the worry has been it could well take down other manufactures with them if it went under - Reports were that GC accounted for around 1/6 of Fender's world wide sales

    Fender has more than enough potential to be a successful private owned company - But it will have its issues - It borrowed over $100 million to buy Kaman - Not sure about USA rules/regulations, but it closed down their USA facility, so at what cost inc redundancies and empty premises - It later sold Kaman to the Drum Workshop brand but who knows at what price, but suspect, it would be far lower

    It had to buy Guild, and likewise close down a factory/facility - Ditto SWR bass amps - Ditto Latin Percussion (again now owned by Drum Workshop)

    Then recently had to pay a 4-5 million pound fine for 'price fixing' 

    So it does have its issues 

    Of course its biggest appeal is its name 
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