British Guitar Brands

stickyfiddle · September 2023

As for the "are Vintage a British brand" someone mentioned Squier not being "an Indonesian brand". I agree with the idea behind this, but I also don't think anyone thinks of them as an American or Japanese brand either. Similarly Zemaitis - that started in the UK but does anyone think of the current Gotoh-made guitars as "British" in any way?

OilCityPickups · September 2023

stickyfiddle said:

As for the "are Vintage a British brand" someone mentioned Squier not being "an Indonesian brand". I agree with the idea behind this, but I also don't think anyone thinks of them as an American or Japanese brand either. Similarly Zemaitis - that started in the UK but does anyone think of the current Gotoh-made guitars as "British" in any way?

This is why the premise of this thread is flawed: Vintage have been mentioned as a British designed brand, when in fact they are 99% copies of US designs with a few twists for copyright reasons. So are they British designs or American designs? Or British sales order modifications US designs manufactured in China?

guitarjack66 · September 2023

Any guitar that isn't manufactured in Britain cannot be called British,surely? You can have a PO Box in London but everything else made elsewhere is not British,again surely this is the case?

GoldenEraGuitars · September 2023

Vintage are owned by John Hornby Skewes and as @OilCityPickups said they are generic copies of other brands with slight differences to avoid legal issues. More so on the non Fender stuff as fender only have rights on their headstock shapes, not the strat or tele bodies.

Imo, they’re a British brand. But the way they work is no different to other brands that get Far Eastern factories to make their goods. If you want an account with JHS you have to contact their Leeds based office, so they do have an active U.K. based HQ.

Even Allparts (a US company with a fender license) get their necks made in Japan.

stickyfiddle · September 2023

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

As for the "are Vintage a British brand" someone mentioned Squier not being "an Indonesian brand". I agree with the idea behind this, but I also don't think anyone thinks of them as an American or Japanese brand either. Similarly Zemaitis - that started in the UK but does anyone think of the current Gotoh-made guitars as "British" in any way?

This is why the premise of this thread is flawed: Vintage have been mentioned as a British designed brand, when in fact they are 99% copies of US designs with a few twists for copyright reasons. So are they British designs or American designs? Or British sales order modifications US designs manufactured in China?

Exactly. Likewise I don't think people think about iPhones as being "American phones".

There's a grey area when you get to things like Duesenberg which definitely have (or have in the past had) some asian manufacturing but are at the very least assembled in Germany. Actually Fender's MIM guitars are a great example - it's an American brand but noone buys a MIM strat and calls it an American guitar with any sort of credibility.

OilCityPickups · September 2023

stickyfiddle said:

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

As for the "are Vintage a British brand" someone mentioned Squier not being "an Indonesian brand". I agree with the idea behind this, but I also don't think anyone thinks of them as an American or Japanese brand either. Similarly Zemaitis - that started in the UK but does anyone think of the current Gotoh-made guitars as "British" in any way?

This is why the premise of this thread is flawed: Vintage have been mentioned as a British designed brand, when in fact they are 99% copies of US designs with a few twists for copyright reasons. So are they British designs or American designs? Or British sales order modifications US designs manufactured in China?

Exactly. Likewise I don't think people think about iPhones as being "American phones".

There's a grey area when you get to things like Duesenberg which definitely have (or have in the past had) some asian manufacturing but are at the very least assembled in Germany. Actually Fender's MIM guitars are a great example - it's an American brand but noone buys a MIM strat and calls it an American guitar with any sort of credibility.

By the rationale being used in some of these names, we would have to consider Fazley to be British as they are ordered and sold by a British retailer to a specification that very probably that retailer had some say in. Oh and probably Jet guitars ...
How do you think this makes people feel who actually put blood and sweat into properly building guitars in this country? It devalues them and their craft.
As a maker of pickups who pays rent and taxes to run a workshop in the UK, attempts to source as many components in the UK as possible and crafts many components from scratch here in East London it saddens me that British industry has to be cheapened by trying to pretend we have all these 'British brands'.

TrentGuitars · September 2023

I certainly think there’s a value to unique or slightly more novel designs from British based companies that happen to be made in the far east. I think you have to ask yourself would you rather they just didn’t exist at all? I wouldn’t necessarily discount a brand like Hiwatt just because of the majority of their stuff is made overseas, I still see them as a British brand.

I’d say compared with other industries there’s quite a good amount of disclosure where things are made.

I of course have a passion for homegrown makers, my ongoing obsession with keeping things in house has lead me down a path of making more and more locally. But I’m definitely not offended by a company called itself British despite not making anything here - people like to say oh yeah I could just go to China and buy that, but in reality you couldn’t, you don’t have the buying power or the design sense to provide that fully ‘branded’ experience. That’s the job of the British based team.

Offset · September 2023

Don't forget ACG in Scotland.

https://acguitars.co.uk/

fretmeister · September 2023

Status-Graphite

Image: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.status-graphite.com%2Fstatus%2Fimage%2Fguitar%2Fgit_back_2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=011dcc2955702bf2dac74ec73a57c808a3d910dfcb43524dff13f8396272d686&ipo=images

Image: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.c2PqF5KhaYAiWhFo3RtbMwAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=decf3c5f9eaca9f62d69c60514d16a67272fbe6b3f944370220bdb02783e41d0&ipo=images

Image: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.status-graphite.com%2Fstatus%2Fimage%2Fs2%2F4900-72-T.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4b7fc9776a2b08b8bc7197b83e85826e5f3c3dc517dab8a439cd9cecbb5536ac&ipo=images

http://www.status-graphite.com/status/frames/index_home.html

Rob Green has been rather ill lately so production of graphite stuff has stopped, but he is making wood necked instruments. I've had one in the past and it was superb.

Racjesus92 · September 2023

Pabcrane said:

Hey,
I am not a native of the lands belonging to the Royal family by right or conquest but...

...Obviously there is a thread of made in UK so I’ll pull from there too , but I am more interested in production items, not parts or small builders that do a couple of guitars a year....

Revelation
Alan Entwistle
Burns
Brian May guitars
PJD
CREAM T
PJE

On the acoustic side I know if
Faith
TANGLEWOOD

What else guys?

When you say say you're "more interested in production, not parts or small builders" I wasn't sure if you were solely referring to partscaster-type guitars, or components for guitars as well.

Assuming it's the former I'd like to mention Oil City pickups, The Creamery pickups, Alegree pickups and wiring harnesses, Monty's pickups and wiring, Bare Knuckle pickups, TinyTone wiring and scratchplates

Along these lines there's also component manufacturers who design stuff here but manufacturer overseas, (which I see you were happy to include) such as Wilkinson for hardware (and pickups too) and Iron Gear and Tonerider for pickups.

Rajani amplifiers in London (I've never tried one but I was looking at their website the other day and I'm intrigued!)

And obviously the pedal (and stuff) makers, some of who have been mentioned such as Fredric Effects, Rainger, Thorpy, Bluewhale, then Bright Onion Pedals and the GigRig

Thanks for the input

Racjesus92 · September 2023

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

As for the "are Vintage a British brand" someone mentioned Squier not being "an Indonesian brand". I agree with the idea behind this, but I also don't think anyone thinks of them as an American or Japanese brand either. Similarly Zemaitis - that started in the UK but does anyone think of the current Gotoh-made guitars as "British" in any way?

This is why the premise of this thread is flawed: Vintage have been mentioned as a British designed brand, when in fact they are 99% copies of US designs with a few twists for copyright reasons. So are they British designs or American designs? Or British sales order modifications US designs manufactured in China?

Exactly. Likewise I don't think people think about iPhones as being "American phones".

There's a grey area when you get to things like Duesenberg which definitely have (or have in the past had) some asian manufacturing but are at the very least assembled in Germany. Actually Fender's MIM guitars are a great example - it's an American brand but noone buys a MIM strat and calls it an American guitar with any sort of credibility.

By the rationale being used in some of these names, we would have to consider Fazley to be British as they are ordered and sold by a British retailer to a specification that very probably that retailer had some say in. Oh and probably Jet guitars ...
How do you think this makes people feel who actually put blood and sweat into properly building guitars in this country? It devalues them and their craft.
As a maker of pickups who pays rent and taxes to run a workshop in the UK, attempts to source as many components in the UK as possible and crafts many components from scratch here in East London it saddens me that British industry has to be cheapened by trying to pretend we have all these 'British brands'.

Thank you so much sharing your experience and insight. Maybe there should be the British guitars association that would stamp products that fall under this description. To value it above other sort of brands. I am really interested in this topic and reading everything carefully, learning and listening.

Offset · September 2023

fretmeister said:

Status-Graphite

Rob Green has been rather ill lately so production of graphite stuff has stopped, but he is making wood necked instruments. I've had one in the past and it was superb.

I have been after a secondhand graphite Status Slipstream for years since playing one on a Status stand at the London Bass Guitar Show some years back (with a trem bridge not a ToM). I've only ever seen one for sale and I missed it.

Still want one as it was rather lovely.

roberty · September 2023

GoFish said:

Sad shout for Magnetic Effects. But also see Fredrick Effects, Ghost, Rainger FX, Latent Lemon, DAM, Castledine,

Zander. He's a one man boutique builder who has designed and built MIDI enabled multi fx which is mind boggling to me

GoldenEraGuitars · September 2023

Gonna say Kithara again, just to be… well, annoying

mburekenge · September 2023

Gray guitars.

rlw · September 2023

Flame - in Sutton

https://flameguitars.co.uk/custom-guitars/models/

Bigsby · September 2023

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

As for the "are Vintage a British brand" someone mentioned Squier not being "an Indonesian brand". I agree with the idea behind this, but I also don't think anyone thinks of them as an American or Japanese brand either. Similarly Zemaitis - that started in the UK but does anyone think of the current Gotoh-made guitars as "British" in any way?

This is why the premise of this thread is flawed: Vintage have been mentioned as a British designed brand, when in fact they are 99% copies of US designs with a few twists for copyright reasons. So are they British designs or American designs? Or British sales order modifications US designs manufactured in China?

I think there's a risk of over-thinking this... You can be inclusive, or you can be exclusive, neither is right or wrong.

But only if you're being exclusive do you really need to be explicit in your interpretation, e.g. it's only British if it's designed in Britain, by a British person, made in a factory in Britain, owned by a wholely British owned company, etc. If you're being inclusive, then it could be an iconic British brand that's now owned by a German company, producing guitars in Indonesia from designs by an American designer working in an office in Spain... But it's still an iconic British brand.

And yes, I do think of Apple's products as being American, because I think of the company as American, whereas I think of Squier as American because of the misspelling...

OilCityPickups · September 2023

Bigsby said:

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

As for the "are Vintage a British brand" someone mentioned Squier not being "an Indonesian brand". I agree with the idea behind this, but I also don't think anyone thinks of them as an American or Japanese brand either. Similarly Zemaitis - that started in the UK but does anyone think of the current Gotoh-made guitars as "British" in any way?

This is why the premise of this thread is flawed: Vintage have been mentioned as a British designed brand, when in fact they are 99% copies of US designs with a few twists for copyright reasons. So are they British designs or American designs? Or British sales order modifications US designs manufactured in China?

I think there's a risk of over-thinking this... You can be inclusive, or you can be exclusive, neither is right or wrong.

But only if you're being exclusive do you really need to be explicit in your interpretation, e.g. it's only British if it's designed in Britain, by a British person, made in a factory in Britain, owned by a wholely British owned company, etc. If you're being inclusive, then it could be an iconic British brand that's now owned by a German company, producing guitars in Indonesia from designs by an American designer working in an office in Spain... But it's still an iconic British brand.

And yes, I do think of Apple's products as being American, because I think of the company as American, whereas I think of Squier as American because of the misspelling...

Possibly the reason I'm over thinking this is because being a proper British manufacturer is really fecking hard! If you are a consumer who is getting the deal of a lifetime ... as we all get now in the Guitar buying field ... then it's great: massive choice and great kit. Everyone's a winner, happy days.
When you are a UK manufacturer who didn't get a penny of help during covid, Got 20+ per cent of trade wiped away by Brexshit, then watch badge engineered Far Eastern products tilt the playing field ... then you feel less charitably disposed.

Wonky · September 2023

Don't think anyone has mentioned Case Guitars

Bolters · September 2023

Case guitars down in Kent. I own two and they are both excellent guitars ( one seen in my avatar pic )

Wonky · September 2023

Bolters said:

Case guitars down in Kent. I own two and they are both excellent guitars ( one seen in my avatar pic )

I've got one as well and it's bloody lovely and it plays and sounds amazing too.

soma1975 · September 2023

Patrick Eggle?

Kittyfrisk · September 2023

Bigsby said:

OilCityPickups said:

stickyfiddle said:

As for the "are Vintage a British brand" someone mentioned Squier not being "an Indonesian brand". I agree with the idea behind this, but I also don't think anyone thinks of them as an American or Japanese brand either. Similarly Zemaitis - that started in the UK but does anyone think of the current Gotoh-made guitars as "British" in any way?

This is why the premise of this thread is flawed: Vintage have been mentioned as a British designed brand, when in fact they are 99% copies of US designs with a few twists for copyright reasons. So are they British designs or American designs? Or British sales order modifications US designs manufactured in China?

I think there's a risk of over-thinking this... You can be inclusive, or you can be exclusive, neither is right or wrong.

But only if you're being exclusive do you really need to be explicit in your interpretation, e.g. it's only British if it's designed in Britain, by a British person, made in a factory in Britain, owned by a wholely British owned company, etc. If you're being inclusive, then it could be an iconic British brand that's now owned by a German company, producing guitars in Indonesia from designs by an American designer working in an office in Spain... But it's still an iconic British brand.

And yes, I do think of Apple's products as being American, because I think of the company as American, whereas I think of Squier as American because of the misspelling...

Don't think that Jerome would agree with you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squier

Racjesus92 · September 2023

I made this document to keep updating with the brands mentioned and tried to sort them into Import, factory and small builder.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OmlULjNj1bz79eyVxcD5ApSF00k9pVE5dAlfYUjmJTg/edit

GoldenEraGuitars · September 2023

Racjesus92 said:

I made this document to keep updating with the brands mentioned and tried to sort them into Import, factory and small builder.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OmlULjNj1bz79eyVxcD5ApSF00k9pVE5dAlfYUjmJTg/edit

Not to piss on your chips but I’d remove Ian Elson from that list. It’s an insult to have him mentioned in the same line up as some rather notable builders.

Deadman · September 2023

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Racjesus92 said:

I made this document to keep updating with the brands mentioned and tried to sort them into Import, factory and small builder.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OmlULjNj1bz79eyVxcD5ApSF00k9pVE5dAlfYUjmJTg/edit

Not to piss on your chips but I’d remove Ian Elson from that list. It’s an insult to have him mentioned in the same line up as some rather notable builders.

And MD Phillips….

GoldenEraGuitars · September 2023

Deadman said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Racjesus92 said:

I made this document to keep updating with the brands mentioned and tried to sort them into Import, factory and small builder.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OmlULjNj1bz79eyVxcD5ApSF00k9pVE5dAlfYUjmJTg/edit

Not to piss on your chips but I’d remove Ian Elson from that list. It’s an insult to have him mentioned in the same line up as some rather notable builders.

And MD Phillips….

Totally. Missed that one. Being picky I’d also not class myself as DIY. I’m definitely a world apart from someone who supplies a raw kit guitar.

Tannin · September 2023

Racjesus92 said:

I made this document to keep updating with the brands mentioned and tried to sort them into Import, factory and small builder.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OmlULjNj1bz79eyVxcD5ApSF00k9pVE5dAlfYUjmJTg/edit

Great stuff! Love your work.

One small point: Lowden is not by any measure a "boutique maker". Lowden has around 80 employees. That is well out of the boutique category and into the middle size range. So far as I know, Lowden is the only UK manufacturer of any significant size. I don't know which maker is the next biggest.

Kalimna · September 2023

Racjesus92 said:

I made this document to keep updating with the brands mentioned and tried to sort them into Import, factory and small builder.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OmlULjNj1bz79eyVxcD5ApSF00k9pVE5dAlfYUjmJTg/edit

An excellent list, to which I would add :

Guitars (acoustic and electric, and courses) - Baileys

Amps - 633 Engineering, Modulus/Gryphin

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