Getting the Clapton Tone.

maharg101 · August 2023

Rock Against Racism !

Here's the thing. I love Clapton's work with Yardbirds and Cream, and I also think 461 Ocean Boulevard is a classic.

But I abhor the racism.

Can you separate the art from the artist ? It's difficult. Sometimes impossible.

Does Clapton still believe that crap he spouted in 1976 ? Yes, he was fucked up through substance abuse during that period. But that's no excuse..I've taken all sorts, and never decided that facism was the way forward.

No conclusions here. Just some meandering thoughts.

Philly_Q · August 2023

ICBM said:

The type of pickups and the TBX control don't make much difference - the important factor is the 25dB mid boost circuit. That's *a lot*, and I suspect he often uses it full up, since apparently during the development of it, he kept asking for "more of the compressor" (as he referred to it).

I watched this video the other day, just by chance. I may be misunderstanding, but he seems to think the TBX itself is a mid-boost between 5 and 10, which I didn't think was the case. Anyway, for what it's worth...

Gassage · August 2023

guitars4you said:

Not sure why such topics change course so easily - A regular FB contributor wants some help/advice about acquiring a certain tone, so lets hop in and help as required

If the header was 'why is EC a total knob head and hated so much' then again join in as required - But that wasn't the question in this case

This is like my Twitter feed- the eternal gravitational pull between Farage on one side and JSO on the other, interspersed with hot pics of Sergio Parisse and vids of two Karens fighting in a street every now and then.

guitars4you · August 2023

That mid boost is key to a lot of his tone - Not so much on clean amp settings - In fact it can sound horrible on clean settings, especially if you apply to much - But from subtle gain to higher gain amp settings it kind of makes your 'thinner single coil voice' sound fatter, almost with the girth of a humbucker

The plus factor with it built into the guitar, you can dial in what you need, as/when required - But equally if it is that good and useful I would not want to own an EC Strat (don't like his choice of small frets for starters) or have such an option fitted on to my existing guitars - So on that basis a floor pedal will offer a similar outcome - Be it a mid boost or an EQ pedal adjusted accordingly - A preamp or treble boost will do similar but the EC circuit is a mid boost so similar but not the same

Interesting that when EC and co did the Cream re-union gigs he stayed with his Strat and not any humbucker based guitars - Yet that Strat with the mid boost can kind of offer those 'fatter' humbucker tones , but retain the single coil highs, snap and attack

Gassage · August 2023

guitars4you said:

That mid boost is key to a lot of his tone - Not so much on clean amp settings - In fact it can sound horrible on clean settings, especially if you apply to much - But from subtle gain to higher gain amp settings it kind of makes your 'thinner single coil voice' sound fatter, almost with the girth of a humbucker

The plus factor with it built into the guitar, you can dial in what you need, as/when required - But equally if it is that good and useful I would not want to own an EC Strat (don't like his choice of small frets for starters) or have such an option fitted on to my existing guitars - So on that basis a floor pedal will offer a similar outcome - Be it a mid boost or an EQ pedal adjusted accordingly - A preamp or treble boost will do similar but the EC circuit is a mid boost so similar but not the same

Interesting that when EC and co did the Cream re-union gigs he stayed with his Strat and not any humbucker based guitars - Yet that Strat with the mid boost can kind of offer those 'fatter' humbucker tones , but retain the single coil highs, snap and attack

I have the rather more complex version of the EC midboost in my CS 35th Anni. It's lush as. The key is to roll volume off whilst using it.

guitars4you · August 2023

Gassage said:

guitars4you said:

That mid boost is key to a lot of his tone - Not so much on clean amp settings - In fact it can sound horrible on clean settings, especially if you apply to much - But from subtle gain to higher gain amp settings it kind of makes your 'thinner single coil voice' sound fatter, almost with the girth of a humbucker

The plus factor with it built into the guitar, you can dial in what you need, as/when required - But equally if it is that good and useful I would not want to own an EC Strat (don't like his choice of small frets for starters) or have such an option fitted on to my existing guitars - So on that basis a floor pedal will offer a similar outcome - Be it a mid boost or an EQ pedal adjusted accordingly - A preamp or treble boost will do similar but the EC circuit is a mid boost so similar but not the same

Interesting that when EC and co did the Cream re-union gigs he stayed with his Strat and not any humbucker based guitars - Yet that Strat with the mid boost can kind of offer those 'fatter' humbucker tones , but retain the single coil highs, snap and attack

I have the rather more complex version of the EC midboost in my CS 35th Anni. It's lush as. The key is to roll volume off whilst using it.

I've never owned an EC Strat, but sold many over the years - I find that boost works better when applied in a more subtle way - Not full on - Not sure how EC uses it, but I find it a case of less is more - That is the advantage of it on the guitar as you can dial in/out as required - A pedal will be just on/off - But with the pedal you can then have it on every Strat you own now and in the future - I suppose it depends how much you love that guitar - As I said for me those small frets are a no go area - Interesting that he is one of the few, maybe only, guy with a Sig Strat and small/vintage frets

Roland · August 2023

Thread cleaned up.

guitars4you said:
Not sure why such topics change course so easily - A regular FB contributor wants some help/advice about acquiring a certain tone, so lets hop in and help as required

If the header was 'why is EC a total knob head and hated so much' then again join in as required - But that wasn't the question in this case

“Why is EC a total knob head and hated so much” is now available for viewing here:

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/253245/wyniro-s-thread-diversion

Gassage · August 2023

Roland said:

guitars4you said:
Not sure why such topics change course so easily - A regular FB contributor wants some help/advice about acquiring a certain tone, so lets hop in and help as required

If the header was 'why is EC a total knob head and hated so much' then again join in as required - But that wasn't the question in this case
“Why is EC a total knob head and hated so much” is now available for viewing here:
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/253245/wyniro-s-thread-diversion

Sorry @Roland - I'm just starting " A Simple Guide to Pol Pot's amp settings" just to take the heat off this thread.

stickyfiddle · August 2023

Philly_Q said:

ICBM said:

The type of pickups and the TBX control don't make much difference - the important factor is the 25dB mid boost circuit. That's *a lot*, and I suspect he often uses it full up, since apparently during the development of it, he kept asking for "more of the compressor" (as he referred to it).

I watched this video the other day, just by chance. I may be misunderstanding, but he seems to think the TBX itself is a mid-boost between 5 and 10, which I didn't think was the case. Anyway, for what it's worth...

Fender themselves disagree with him: https://www.fender.com/en-US/parts/controls-switches/tbx-tone-control-potentiometer-kit/0992052000.html ;

He's actually got it 100% wrong, which is impressive and hilarious. He says the midboost is on the middle pot (usually neck tone) and the TBX is the bottom pot (usually middle tone), when it's the TBX is the middle one and the active mid boost is on the lower pot. And if he's used his ears at any point he'd have been able to work this out.

I guess it's hardly a surprise that the guy behind Vertex might not actually know shit about circuits. That was also the most wooden I've ever heard Layla played without the notes actually being wrong too...

I'm constantly astonished and dismayed that he gets so much algorithm-airtime while being so frickin wrong so often.

stickyfiddle · August 2023

As for Clapton, he has all the gear already discussed but also fat sounding hands. I don't like the sound he makes with a guitar post-Layla, but it's a big chunk of just a very muscular sound from his fingers. I can do it too but I don't actually know how to describe how

guitars4you · August 2023

Roland said:

Thread cleaned up.
guitars4you said:
Not sure why such topics change course so easily - A regular FB contributor wants some help/advice about acquiring a certain tone, so lets hop in and help as required

If the header was 'why is EC a total knob head and hated so much' then again join in as required - But that wasn't the question in this case
“Why is EC a total knob head and hated so much” is now available for viewing here:
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/253245/wyniro-s-thread-diversion

Hope I've not offended or caused any issue with my question/statement Roland - It was not aimed at our beloved leaders, I just got annoyed by the change of direction of what should be a sensible thread

RandallFlagg · August 2023

To the original point, it is a good tone, I can never get Strats to sound anything but thin and spiky when I play them. I do think a lot of volume from a cooking amp helps, but I never get chance to do that these days.

HandwrittenHero · August 2023

guitars4you said:

That mid boost is key to a lot of his tone - Not so much on clean amp settings - In fact it can sound horrible on clean settings, especially if you apply to much - But from subtle gain to higher gain amp settings it kind of makes your 'thinner single coil voice' sound fatter, almost with the girth of a humbucker

The plus factor with it built into the guitar, you can dial in what you need, as/when required - But equally if it is that good and useful I would not want to own an EC Strat (don't like his choice of small frets for starters) or have such an option fitted on to my existing guitars - So on that basis a floor pedal will offer a similar outcome - Be it a mid boost or an EQ pedal adjusted accordingly - A preamp or treble boost will do similar but the EC circuit is a mid boost so similar but not the same

Interesting that when EC and co did the Cream re-union gigs he stayed with his Strat and not any humbucker based guitars - Yet that Strat with the mid boost can kind of offer those 'fatter' humbucker tones , but retain the single coil highs, snap and attack

Mid boost Strat on my knee as I type, I'd agree with most of that.

Otherwise to add:
advantage of the circuit in the guitar is you have it all within tweak able distance on the fly and less to carry out to get a real variety of sound.
disadvantage of the circuit is it's active electronics so it's easier to give up on it ever playing nice with such as a germanium fuzz if that was the plan. It's also always on even in idle so even with vintagey pickups etc it's going to sound more muscular than an average Strat.

I like mine, it does a good job of being enough of a Strat. Fatter tone while still getting snap, attack and quack is on the money

Philly_Q · August 2023

stickyfiddle said:
He's actually got it 100% wrong, which is impressive and hilarious. He says the midboost is on the middle pot (usually neck tone) and the TBX is the bottom pot (usually middle tone), when it's the TBX is the middle one and the active mid boost is on the lower pot. And if he's used his ears at any point he'd have been able to work this out.

I guess it's hardly a surprise that the guy behind Vertex might not actually know shit about circuits. That was also the most wooden I've ever heard Layla played without the notes actually being wrong too...

I'm constantly astonished and dismayed that he gets so much algorithm-airtime while being so frickin wrong so often.

FWIW, I didn't know who he was - I still don't, to be honest - and I don't even know why YouTube guided me to that video, I hadn't been watching anything to do with Clapton or his guitars, or onboard circuits.

Although naturally enough, in my vast collection of parts and spares I do have a Clapton mid-boost kit which I've had for about 20 years and never installed.

guitartango · August 2023

Sorry to change the subject slightly, are the American Pro II Strats any good for the CT ?

ICBM · August 2023

guitartango said:

Sorry to change the subject slightly, are the American Pro II Strats any good for the CT ?

*Any* Strat will get you into the ballpark if you fit the mid-boost circuit, or use an offboard equivalent. I’m not saying all Strats and Strat pickups sound the same, but compared to the difference that makes, they do… the rest is just nuances, close enough that how you play matters more.

RandallFlagg · August 2023

Would a pedal boost or OD such as a Klone not give similar results as the mid-boost circuit?

ICBM · August 2023

RandallFlagg said:

Would a pedal boost or OD such as a Klone not give similar results as the mid-boost circuit?

No, not unless it’s a clean mid boost with at least 25dB gain. An overdrive pedal is quite different - even a middy one like a Tube Screamer.

HAL9000 · August 2023

Presumably some EQ pedals can give a mid boost?

Moe_Zambeek · August 2023

Isn’t there a Demeter pedal that’s basically the Clapton boost in a box?

ICBM · August 2023

HAL9000 said:

Presumably some EQ pedals can give a mid boost?

Yes - you could probably get close with something like a Boss GE-7, even though the individual frequency boost isn't enough, if you reduce the others as well and whack the master level up.

I can't find an accurate description of the frequency response, but there's some in here that might be helpful - https://line6.com/support/topic/26249-how-to-replicate-fenders-25-db-mid-boost/

pluckbuddy · August 2023

Moe_Zambeek said:

Isn’t there a Demeter pedal that’s basically the Clapton boost in a box?

There's definitely a Seymour Duncan pedal that is said to be the same or a very similar type boost

Gassage · August 2023

RandallFlagg said:

Would a pedal boost or OD such as a Klone not give similar results as the mid-boost circuit?

Klone no - far too hard a clip.

MXR Dist + is in ballpark

guitars4you · August 2023

HAL9000 said:

Presumably some EQ pedals can give a mid boost?

Ideal - Not sure how many actual 'mid boost' pedals are out there, compared to gain or treble boost options

soma1975 · August 2023

maharg101 said:

Rock Against Racism !

Here's the thing. I love Clapton's work with Yardbirds and Cream, and I also think 461 Ocean Boulevard is a classic.

But I abhor the racism.

Can you separate the art from the artist ? It's difficult. Sometimes impossible.

Does Clapton still believe that crap he spouted in 1976 ? Yes, he was fucked up through substance abuse during that period. But that's no excuse..I've taken all sorts, and never decided that facism was the way forward.

No conclusions here. Just some meandering thoughts.

Yes he has spoken about it - most recently and in-depth on the Life in 12-bars doc.

I am disposed to give him the benefit of the doubt on that. However he was still quite diametrically opposed to me politics-wise and doesn't come over well on subjects such as immigration.

However, his anti-vax, anti-lockdown bullshit was purely the first time a rich famous guy had been told he couldn't do something and he responded very poorly and his comments could have endangered other idiots believing him and were basically unforgiveable in my opinion.

Then he told everyone the vaccine caused him loads of pain in his hands and he'd have to stop touring. 6 years after giving an interview saying his hands were hurting and he'd have to stop touring because of a medical condition.

He is still touring.

So yeah he's a bellend for multiple reasons. But gave us a few years of some excellent guitar tones.

My mate worked with him recently on a project and said he was absolutely lovely all day.

jeromegreenday · August 2023

yes you can get a pedal that is basically the TBX circuitry in a pedal, it's just a 25db boost pedal, there's youtube examples. Just google 25db boost pedal and part with £100 and you can get there.

I think Clapton vax message was clear. He had all his jabs - he wasn't opposed to jabs but suffered bad side effects, almost to the point he thought he'd never play guitar again. All he wanted was more information to be publicly available on the side effects and when he spoke out about side effects and possibly the risk didn't outweigh the reward, he was ostracised. I consider that a verbatim of his stance.

pluckbuddy · August 2023

jeromegreenday said:

yes you can get a pedal that is basically the TBX circuitry in a pedal, it's just a 25db boost pedal, there's youtube examples. Just google 25db boost pedal and part with £100 and you can get there.

I think Clapton vax message was clear. He had all his jabs - he wasn't opposed to jabs but suffered bad side effects, almost to the point he thought he'd never play guitar again. All he wanted was more information to be publicly available on the side effects and when he spoke out about side effects and possibly the risk didn't outweigh the reward, he was ostracised. I consider that a verbatim of his stance.

It's true. I never saw not being able to play guitar on the list of possible side effects

maharg101 · August 2023

My standard answer for any pedal-based, mid-boosting, Clapton-Toning needs:

VFE Standout !!!

p90fool · September 2023

I don't think that a similar fat, overdriven sound is that elusive tbh, but that video is a lesson to people who don't see what the fuss is about with Eric Clapton.

I've never been a massive fan of his records and have never had much interest in seeing him live, but he can make a guitar sing like almost nobody else. It may be "just pentatonic noodling", but he has a touch that not enough people acknowledge or work on in their own playing.

If you really want to get there dial in a similar enough tone, take one single phrase of his which grabs you and work like hell on just that.

ICBM · September 2023

jeromegreenday said:

yes you can get a pedal that is basically the TBX circuitry in a pedal, it's just a 25db boost pedal

The TBX and mid boost circuits are completely different things - both are in the Clapton Strat, but they work independently. The TBX is a tone control which, although designed to work with active circuits, is actually itself passive - Fender also fitted it to all USA Standard Strats and Teles, where it sucks tone somewhat.

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