ABR bridge saddle grooves question

scarry67 · August 2023

Just got a ‘97 Orville LP and the saddles are deeply notched and not very even. I might get a Gotoh GB104B replacement bridge which has very shallow grooves but presumably you just let string pressure keep them in place or are you expected to work on the saddles to get a good set up?

GluedtoMusic · August 2023

The Gotoh GE104B (along with a lot of after market tune-o-matics) come with starter slots in the saddles, they should be filed out to suit your string gauge

Danielsguitars · August 2023

Gotoh abr1 bridges are 16 inch radius so you need to file quite deep E string slots to get it to 12 inch, I had to do this recently on one of my builds.

I never knew the GE103B is 12 inch radius and the GE104B is 16 inch, you learn something knew every day.

Now it gets more confusing between these 2 model numbers, one saying 104 is 12 inch and another 16 inch, I hope someone can clear this up because I'm not sure I'll be ordering anymore Gotoh bridges.

scarry67 · August 2023

So it may be better to get a luthier to file the grooves properly rather than replace?

punchesjudy · August 2023

Twat the strings down into the saddles with a hammer. Voila.

Edit: Also don’t if you don’t feel confident you won’t bugger it up ha.

Danielsguitars · August 2023

punchesjudy said:

Twat the strings down into the saddles with a hammer. Voila.

Edit: Also don’t if you don’t feel confident you won’t bugger it up ha.

That's no good with a 12 inch radius guitar and 16 inch radius bridge

punchesjudy · August 2023

Danielsguitars said:

punchesjudy said:

Twat the strings down into the saddles with a hammer. Voila.

Edit: Also don’t if you don’t feel confident you won’t bugger it up ha.

That's no good with a 12 inch radius guitar and 16 inch radius bridge

The GE103B is 12 inch radius though. At least that’s what the website says. Dunno about the 104… Is the radius mismatch that big between a 12 and 16? I can happily use 12 inch on a 7.25 board. Admittedly not everyone would get along with the higher outer strings.

Edit: The Gotoh website says the GE104B is 12 inch radius as well. Now I’m confused. Do they just not know themselves and say every tunomatic style bridge of theirs is 12.

Danielsguitars · August 2023

punchesjudy said:

Danielsguitars said:

punchesjudy said:

Twat the strings down into the saddles with a hammer. Voila.

Edit: Also don’t if you don’t feel confident you won’t bugger it up ha.

That's no good with a 12 inch radius guitar and 16 inch radius bridge

The GE103B is 12 inch radius though. At least that’s what the website says. Dunno about the 104… Is the radius mismatch that big between a 12 and 16? I can happily use 12 inch on a 7.25 board. Admittedly not everyone would get along with the higher outer strings.

I just had to slot the 16inch radius bridge and there's a big difference in feel action and playability imo, it's so much better now.

You might put up with a 12 on a 7.25 but get that set up right and you'll feel the difference.

WezV · August 2023

The bridge radius does not have to match fretboard radius, a bit flatter works well.

2 things to consider

The string radius sits higher than the fretboard plane. At the nut end the strings are about 2mm away from the board. Once you get to the bridge its 5mm+ higher than the fretboard plane

Thicker strings need higher action, which flattens the string radius at the bridge even more.

ICBM · August 2023

WezV said:

The bridge radius does not have to match fretboard radius, a bit flatter works well.

…

Thicker strings need higher action, which flattens the string radius at the bridge even more.

This. It’s sometimes hard to visualise, but if the action is higher on the bass strings than the treble, you actually have a substantially larger string radius than fingerboard radius, tilted down towards the treble side. There’s no hard and fast rule about how much larger, but I find about 25% is probably about right… ie a 16” bridge on a 12” neck shouldn’t be too far off.

If the bridge and fingerboard radius match, I always find the G and D action is too high and the A and low E too low.

Danielsguitars · August 2023

I make my guitars with a low bridge height, when I had this mismatch it left my bridge about 2mm off the body, which was too low and actually didn't play as well until I sorted this radius out.

It just plays and feels much better now so I wouldn't want the mismatch, everyone is different but that mismatch isn't something I'd purposely make.

WezV · August 2023

A 12" saddle radius on a 12" fretboard radius is technically a mismatch.

The strings are further away from the imaginary center of the circle than the surface of the fretboard - the radius or that outer circle is bigger.

A 12 1/4" saddle radius would be the ideal match for 12" fretboard radius, if action was the same on each string, but it isn't.
(The extra 1/4" allows for fret and action height - frets add 1.5-2mm to the radius, action adds 3-4mm at the bridge end assuming a 1.5-2mm action at the 12th fret)

I worked this out once taking into account the higher action on low strings and think I ended up at 12 3/4" as being a good match for a 12" radius fretboard.

IIRC correctly PRS bridges come with an 11" radius as they feel it is the best fit for their 10" radius fretboards.

Obviously player preference comes into it too, and should not be overlooked when discussing theoretical ideals.

With an aftermarket TOM it makes sense to start with a flatter radius, then file them slightly to suit the guitar and player. It's only a swipe or two of a file

Danielsguitars · August 2023

WezV said:

A 12" saddle radius on a 12" fretboard radius is technically a mismatch.

The strings are further away from the imaginary center of the circle than the surface of the fretboard - the radius or that outer circle is bigger.

A 12 1/4" saddle radius would be the ideal match for 12" fretboard radius, if action was the same on each string, but it isn't.
(The extra 1/4" allows for fret and action height - frets add 1.5-2mm to the radius, action adds 3-4mm at the bridge end assuming a 1.5-2mm action at the 12th fret)

I worked this out once taking into account the higher action on low strings and think I ended up at 12 3/4" as being a good match for a 12" radius fretboard.

IIRC correctly PRS bridges come with an 11" radius as they feel it is the best fit for their 10" radius fretboards.

My point was a 12 inch radius with a 16 inch radius bridge is too much imo, maybe I didn't describe it properly.

Your prs description confirms it, I had to file quite a bit into the saddle on the gotoh bridge on the bass side which is a pain when I could've just got a different radius bridge to start with, I won't be using those bridges again.

WezV · August 2023

agreed - I think 1-2" works great, but wouldn't want a 4" difference

Seziertisch · August 2023

If the bridge on your Orville has ‘Japan’ stamped on the bottom, an upgrade will not necessarily be an upgrade in sound.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/guitarist/20230106/282170770215310

scarry67 · August 2023

Yes - I think fettling the original is the best plan here.

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ABR bridge saddle grooves question

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