The addictive Matchless sound.....what to do?

Vintage-T · July 2023

I've become totally addicted to the Matchless Channel 1 & 2 emulations in the Helix.

This has got me pondering, unfortunately for me, pondering generally costs money.

Now I do not have anywhere near the dollar required for a Matchless, so that's off the table. But a ballpark amp would be of interest.

I've come down to a few options.

1. Just stop now and continue to enjoy the Helix versions, they're blooming good.

2. An AC 10, 15 or 30? Worried that the lovely cranked sounds won't be achievable even at gig volumes anymore though.

3. Maybe the UA Ruby (but is this any different really to the Helix?)

4. Maybe a Ceriatone Muchle$$ DZ 30? But importing from the States likely to also be horribly expensive.

5. A Bad Cat or Morgan....but which?

6. Something else? A pedal (Big Trees?), a different EL84 amp that'll get in the ball park? I love the snarl of it, especially channel 2.

Any suggestions?

Moe_Zambeek · July 2023

Gigging? An AC30 with MV might work. Rift Blackhawk?

Not gigging? Big trees is great for home use in that kind of vein.

andy1839 · July 2023

What about a Victory V4 Copper?

Or the amp itself?

darthed1981 · July 2023

I love guitarists...

"I'm so happy with the thing I already have, that I'm thinking of changing it..."

Vintage-T · July 2023

Moe_Zambeek said:

Gigging? An AC30 with MV might work. Rift Blackhawk?

Not gigging? Big trees is great for home use in that kind of vein.

Defo gigging

Vintage-T · July 2023

darthed1981 said:

I love guitarists...

"I'm so happy with the thing I already have, that I'm thinking of changing it..."

Yup! It’s practically the most dangerous period when you think you’re happy

LastMantra · July 2023

What I was going to say too ^

If you're really happy with what you have why get something else?

koss59 · July 2023

The good news is the Helix patches sound nothing like owning a real Matchless so you might hate one if you got it

But seriously, a Badcat is the closest you can get and pretty cheaply sometimes too.

stickyfiddle · July 2023

darthed1981 said:

I love guitarists...

"I'm so happy with the thing I already have, that I'm thinking of changing it..."

And specifically replacing that thing with a fancier thing and immediately trying to make it as close to the previous thing as possible

Dodge · July 2023

stickyfiddle said:

darthed1981 said:

I love guitarists...

"I'm so happy with the thing I already have, that I'm thinking of changing it..."

And specifically replacing that thing with a fancier thing and immediately trying to make it as close to the previous thing as possible

This.

Had an AC30, replaced it with a Matchless DC30 to find the ultimate Vox AC30 tone. That turned into several other Vox-like amps including another Matchless and a few Cornells.

Many thousands of £ later, it turns out the ultimate Vox AC30 sound is a Vox AC30.

The Matchless sound to be is much harder, more dynamic and less forgiving than an AC30. A lot to do with the massive filtering, the mismatched output transformer and the choice of speakers. I think the only other company that does this is Bad Cat.

A Bad Cat Black Cat 30 (non reverb) is the same amp as a Matchless DC30 and usually goes for considerably less on the used market. Still not a cheap amp though. You'd be looking at £1500+ minimum.

Danny1969 · July 2023

I have a Bugera BC30 which is a bit Matchless like .. paid £250 for it

duotone · July 2023

I remember Paul Davids (YouTuber) saying he pretty much left his Line6 Pod on the Matchless DC-30 amp which it modelled. Years later, when he could afford it, he bought a Matchless DC-30!

Wazmeister · July 2023

Just buy a Matchless.

Live they have to be heard to be believed.

Vintage-T · July 2023

Wazmeister said:

Just buy a Matchless.

Live they have to be heard to be believed.

If i had the means dude i would. One day maybe….

ICBM · July 2023

Danny1969 said:

I have a Bugera BC30 which is a bit Matchless like .. paid £250 for it

This is probably the closest for the least money.

Habanero · July 2023

By coincidence I watched an old ‘That Pedal Show’ episode yesterday called ‘EL84 Amp Magic’ where they compared an AC30, AC15, Victory and Matchless.

slacker · July 2023

The early bad cats have matchless components in them and the later you go more divergence.

I've got an 01 black cat 02 lightning and a Morgan and all sound similar. For not gigging you need pedals which I'm not listing as that's another rabbit hole.

NickB · July 2023

I have fallen down this very same rabbit hole. I bought a used Ceriatone Dizzy 30. It’s loud, too loud for the average pub gig so you’ll need an attenuator to get it to the sweet spot. It’s heavy, even in head format. It’s difficult to dial in. I sold it and bought a Victory VC35 Copper. Which I sold. My advice for what it’s worth. Save your money. Sonic experiments are expensive.

If like me, you’re using a Fryette Powerstation and a cab, stick with the Helix models, whilst they lack the depth and je ne sais quoi of the real deal, in a band mix the difference is negligible.

But if you must then I would go for the Victory Copper V4 amp pedal. It’s got the 2 notes built in as a bonus.

stickyfiddle · July 2023

I have a BadCat Cub which gets pretty close in vibe. But even that is too heavy for me to be arsed with it, so I usually use a Tonemaster DR instead for gigging...

Cirrus · July 2023

I kind of made my own (sort of...);

The AC30cc series have a 1x12 model. I got one of those, modded it to run on 2x el84s, put nicer transformers (still rated for ac30 power levels) magical mojo caps and resistors in key areas and left everything else the same. To my mind, that's basically into the matchless camp - oversize transformers and ghosts haunting the coupling caps. I usually compensate for the impedance mismatch that results from pulling half the power valves, but discovered that the impedance mismatch sounds glorious (thought the 1972 celestion silver alnico that produced it might have something to do with it)

The total cost of amp and upgrade parts, excluding the old speaker, was about £650, but obviously does require soldering/ circuit knowledge.

Supportact · July 2023

I gig with an AC15cc1 (with an upgraded speaker and reverb pan) and I'm perfectly happy with it. This thread is a reminder that I must on no account try a Matchless.

DannyP · July 2023

I've never played one of those Genz-Benz Black Pearls.

They keep coming up at tempting prices, are they anywhere close to a Matchless?

DrCornelius · July 2023

DannyP said:

I've never played one of those Genz-Benz Black Pearls.

They keep coming up at tempting prices, are they anywhere close to a Matchless?

Just my opinion as Ive only ever played one matchless in a rehearsal space but owned a couple of black pearls. I'd say the matchless is harder sounding, less forgiving but with more shimmer/chime/sparkle.

The advantage of the Genz for me is that it is Vox at heart but is really versatile and with a few tweaks of the voice knob and the EQ you can get all sorts of fender and plexi tones from it too.

Vintage-T · July 2023

Found an early 70's handwired AC30 nearby for sale. Might go and try it. Not sure it'd be overly reliable though.

There's also a V35 Copper with cab not too far away.

Might see if I can sell any bits I'm not using.

Litterick · July 2023

You might be disappointed. We might already be living in the dystopian future, where the emulation sounds better than the original.

vasselmeyer · July 2023

Find a second hand Laney VC30. They do the job and come in 1x12, 2x12 and 2x10 versions. You can find them for as little as £200 used.

The Studio Rats recently did a video on them:

slacker · July 2023

Litterick said:

You might be disappointed. We might already be living in the dystopian future, where the emulation sounds better than the original.

You might be right. A matchless is a thing of beauty though. I took mine to a fretboard jam. After a few songs people started going to it as first choice. Some people didn't know what it was and liked it.

There's a directness and response in the matchless/early bad cat design that's in few others. Some people don't like it but if one is using an emulation it's worth trying the real thing even if to rule it out.

StuartMac290 · July 2023

The best amp I've ever plugged into is my early Bad Cat BC30 - one of the ones that basically IS a Matchless HC-30, full of Matchless components (Bad Cat have been moving further and further from the original design for 20 years to the point the current ones bear no real resemblance to the Matchless). I've tried a number of modelled emulations of that amp, and whilst I like them - I actually use one of them often live on a Fractal AX8 - none of them really approach the real thing.

The ability to jumper the two channels on the originals is a huge bonus too. Absolutely glorious amps.

The original Bad Cats go for about half the price of the Matchless used, incidentally, despite being basically the same amp. They're rarer than hen's teeth though. Especially the non-reverb version, which I think is the best version.

ChrisCox1994 · July 2023

Badcat 15 with a master volume. Sublime

Dominic · July 2023

I had a Lightning 15 2x12 and hated it
it was brittle,ice-pick sharp and very hard and unforgiving .
It was also painfully loud and killed my bandmates 50w Marshall.
Brutal thing.

Dodge · July 2023

Dominic said:

I had a Lightning 15 2x12 and hated it
it was brittle,ice-pick sharp and very hard and unforgiving .
It was also painfully loud and killed my bandmates 50w Marshall.
Brutal thing.

That's kinda the Matchless sound. With my Lightning I 'corrected' the impedance mismatch which helped.more than I'd expect it to. If it had a Vox cut control, I'd probably still have it.

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The addictive Matchless sound.....what to do?

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