Learning Riffs, how long?

spev11 · July 2023

As a Beginner/ early intermediate guitarist I'm finding some riffs are taking a suprisingly long time to learn.
I;m talking easy riffs here as well, ie Rebel Rebel, for some reason it will not stay in my hand regardless of how hard I try, its been 4 days now. Is this normal ? Some stuff I find easier when It would seem more difficult on paper.
Just sounding out really

stickyfiddle · July 2023

I'd guess the exact time depends on the player and the song, but what is common is it'll get quicker the more you do it.

After 20+ years II'm good at learning new things but often find that while my fingers can remember things pretty well via muscle memory that's only any good after my brain has remembered how the thing starts...

theatreanchor · July 2023

It really depends. But the more you do it, the better you’ll be. When I was learning as a teenager, I’d play three hours a day or until my hands gave up. Whichever came first.

LionAquaLooper · July 2023

If you can figure out a riff within 5 mins, then it's not worth learning

Just kidding. Like others have said already it totally depends. My only tip from personal experience is - choose the riffs you want to learn wisely. I've lost enthusiasm and excitement for riffs that I used to love to listen to because I know how to play them now. Nowadays there are riffs/progressions that I absolutely refuse to learn because I love them too much. "Dreams" by Fleetwood Mac for example. Such a great song and simple progression but I don't want to learn it.

stickyfiddle · July 2023

Just to add... the first time we ever played what turned out to be my old band's best "highlight of set" type song I played the riff completely upside down. Left hand correct but right hand playing an entirely wrong picking pattern.

A riff I wrote myself - zero excuses. Don't give yourself too much grief..!

spev11 · July 2023

A fair enough, I practice 2 hours an evening but don't spend all the session on the one riff. I shall continue to enjoy the journey, it frustrates me but it more than rewards me also.

digitalkettle · July 2023

Don't want to sound patronising but make sure you understand what you are playing...something deeper than a sequence of numbers in tab...then it has more chance of getting ingrained, e.g. key, underlying chords, time sig, tempo, etc.

WeZ84 · July 2023

Use a metronome or if playing along with the track, slow it right down until you can play it 10 times in a row with no mistakes then step up the speed a notch and play it 10 times in a row again until you can play it at full speed.

You could even go a little faster than the required speed. That way if you can consistently play it faster than you need to, you know you'll be fine at the normal speed. This helps when playing under pressure with an audience or if playing in a band with an over-enthusiastic drummer

spev11 · July 2023

digitalkettle said:

Don't want to sound patronising but make sure you understand what you are playing...something deeper than a sequence of numbers in tab...then it has more chance of getting ingrained, e.g. key, underlying chords, time sig, tempo, etc.

No , I fully understand what you mean, I'm learning theory as well so I'm covering all bases. I learn riffs to keep it fun but once I've learnt one I can keep it on the back burner as I get deeper into the why/what/how etc

digitalkettle · July 2023

spev11 said:

digitalkettle said:

Don't want to sound patronising but make sure you understand what you are playing...something deeper than a sequence of numbers in tab...then it has more chance of getting ingrained, e.g. key, underlying chords, time sig, tempo, etc.

No , I fully understand what you mean, I'm learning theory as well so I'm covering all bases. I learn riffs to keep it fun but once I've learnt one I can keep it on the back burner as I get deeper into the why/what/how etc

What I mean is: say you're learning 'Message in a Bottle'...key of C#m...C#m, A, B, F#m chords...1-5-9 shapes...there's a lot more to support the learning/memorisation process there than just a tab sequence.

Also, unless you can write it out cold with pencil & paper, you don't really know it

spev11 · July 2023

I know there’s more to it but I’m not there yet. I play and learn riffs amongst the rest of the learning to break it up and keep it interesting. Otherwise it’s just maths with notes

. I get excited when a bit of theory I’ve just learnt relates back to something, it’s all useful but I’ll take your advice on board.

topdog91 · July 2023

It takes as long as it takes. Learning is not a matter of play something once and it's perfect. Learning is often frustrating and you need to focus on the end goal. If you could play things perfectly, you wouldn't need to learn. Don't rush it, better to learn slowly and correctly than rush and fudge it. You are almost certainly improving over time, which is the main thing.

BahHumbug · July 2023

I’d say be prepared for progress to be on geological timescales. Getting started on guitar is not easy or quick. However, if you love doing it, that’s part of what makes it rewarding.

I’m interested that you mention ’Rebel Rebel’ as an example ‘easy’ riff. Just have a think about some of the technical elements in it. IIRC it includes single note melody played across strings, in conjunction with double stops and maybe some mini chords, pull-offs, on beat and off beat rhythm. And note damping. I’m not going to argue the toss of whether it is easy or not, but that’s quite a lot of technique to put together for a beginner/intermediate player.

Lestratcaster · July 2023

Getting the rhythm right is the key part of playing a riff properly. Being able to play it in time with a metronome or the original track is important. With no groove or the right timing it'll never sound right.

spev11 · July 2023

the weird thing is once I've got the fingers going the right direction then I have no trouble (well not much) keeping in time, how that would fair in a band setting I've no idea but I play for my own pleasure so It may never be relevant.
As always the advice is exemplary and give me ideas to work on.
ta

allen · July 2023

I learned that riff as a beginner about 30 years ago. I'm not sure if I can do it reliably even today. The way it comes back to that E chord doesn't feel natural under my fingers.

However, I would generally agree with others that you will have to do a lot more well organised practice than you would think to do even simple(ish) riffs like that one.

If you are anything like me, you are also probably putting in a lot less time than you think into really learning/practicing. A lot of time just goes on noodling/playing old things that I already know/fiddling with equipment. Even 10 minutes of focussed practice will feel very hard.

tone1 · July 2023

I only know how to play Riffs….

spev11 · July 2023

Given how haphazard my day to day life is my guitar practice is weirdly organised, I have structures for chords, progressions, scale learning, songs (And singing badly) technique learning etc, that's roughly an hour and a half or so, then I have a noodle and a mess around with the looper/drum machine or garage band. I'm quite determined to learn to play to the best of my ability, I'm 53 now and started in earnest 3 years ago, its slow going at times but I'm getting there.
I've just started to organise a couple of mates into a rough jam session as well.

CaseOfAce · July 2023

I personally wouldn't get too hung up on nailing that Rebel Rebel riff too precisely - as long as you hit the marks on that D -> A -> E chord change / top notes with the feel - you'll get the point across on the riff. Bear in mind when Bowie wrote the riff it's intended to be sloppy to get that feel across. It's one of the tunes I do in my set and once I put in the vocal part over the top the intricacies of the riff fade into the background.

As for learning riffs... (or any solo / part) , I NETFLIX it.
By that I mean I sit down with an unplugged guitar and watch a film or tv show and just get it under my fingers by playing it repeatedly (obv. with no one else in the room). If I can't play it after doing that for 90 minutes it ain't gonna happen.

CoffeeAndTV · July 2023

It’s like learning a new language, it just takes time. The more time you spend working on those skills the easier it gets.

Kultschar · July 2023

One thing I noticed this week (playing Metal stuff) is how weak, useless and uncoordinated my Pinkie is! Been exercising it a lot since!

roberty · July 2023

tone1 said:

I only know how to play Riffs….

Riffs out for the lads weyyy

hollywoodrox · July 2023

spev11 said:

Given how haphazard my day to day life is my guitar practice is weirdly organised, I have structures for chords, progressions, scale learning, songs (And singing badly) technique learning etc, that's roughly an hour and a half or so, then I have a noodle and a mess around with the looper/drum machine or garage band. I'm quite determined to learn to play to the best of my ability, I'm 53 now and started in earnest 3 years ago, its slow going at times but I'm getting there.
I've just started to organise a couple of mates into a rough jam session as well.

If you’re 53 now you’ve got 7 years til your 60 , which these days is the new 40
nikki Sixx is 64 & still playing then look at the stones etc .

With 2 to 4 years of focused practice you could probably be playing in a band .

Hope this gives you a positive attitude & spurs you on.

Best regards Paul

hollywoodrox · July 2023

I sometimes think the Riffs & Rhythm is a lot harder than the soloing ( obviously discounting superhuman stuff like vai,satriani , Yngwie etc

LastMantra · July 2023

How long is a piece of string?

I think it also depends a bit on what you want to achieve from playing guitar.
If it's just for fun/hobby then getting stressed about it is kind of defeating the purpose.

spev11 · July 2023

Luckily for me its the one thing that doesn't stress me, it frustrates me sometimes but not in a stressful way (if that makes sense). As i'm learning using online resources I was intrigued by others experience really.
And oddly (in reference to the pinky weakness) I did a lot of exercises early on to strengthen the pinky independence and now I almost use the bugger too much

Whether I'll ever end up in a band I have no idea , I'd like to get as far as being able to get some mates together for a bit of practice/jam kind of thing.

Yorkie · July 2023

I'm a slow learner. Everything I do takes ages. I can be very determined, though.

I too used to get frustrated when trying to learn riffs. Probably nothing to do with what is happening to you, but it turns out my problem was trying to learn with 'free guitar lessons' on YouTube. I got fixated with sounding like this and that, skipping the basics. I could hit all the notes in a difficult riff, but it would still sound like shit.

One day, I played one of these difficult riffs for its creator and he said 'oh wow, you must be hearing a different drummer'. As a matter of fact, I do hear a different drummer, in general (sensory processing disorder, part of my autistic curse/super power). But it doesn't mean I can't do better. After that, I spent a year doing things like clapping to a metronome and playing slow. Back to basics, or in my case, forget everything and start again. I am now developing my own vocabulary, my own technique and my own sound. Slowly, but I am not sure I can/want to do it any other way.

Jon

spev11 · July 2023

I avoid the free on YouTube ones to be honest, I use JustinGuitar and the Fender app for some structure (the fender lessons are a bit odd in places but not bad whilst Justin covers a huge amount of stuff) plus some paid for Theory and Ear training (not great at the ear thing as I have tinitus and some hearing loss, can barely hear anything around 2.5k to 5k but i'm battling on with that, and recent hearing aids are helping). I watch a lot of youtubers reviewing stuff and watch their playing , some are better than others. I found deciding on a particular style helps (metal and punk mostly with a dose of White Stripes) i'll circle back to other styles in the future.

RelayDuzzy · July 2023

My own experience of this is just to do pure simple repetition, slowly and regularly, and approach it like a form of meditation.
In this age of instant gratification, I think you have to just set aside all expectations of how long it will take, and just focus on the notes and techniques, and just work on it repetitively until you are reasonably satisfied.

As an example, I learnt the intro to Jimi Hendrix's Little Wing several years ago. If memory serves me right, I think it took me 4 to 6 weeks to learn, bar by bar. Take 1 (or 2) bar at a time per night, practice continuously for about an hour. So practice the bar until i get it right, then join it with the bar from the night(s) before. Basically it took me over a month to play something that lasts less than 30 seconds.

When I could finally string it all together, and play it at a pace good enough for me (which is nowhere at the same speed or character that Hendrix plays it with) then I moved on. But at least I felt a sense of satisfaction and achievement.
From time to time, I just test myself by trying to replay it on my own, to make sure I don't forget it, and also to then revisit and analyse what's going on. It's amazing when I hear the original compared to my version (nowhere near the same), but you then start to hear all the nuances and dynamics that Hendrix puts in, and opens up a whole new dimension of appreciation of his genius, and hopefully understand and improve on your own playing.

GuyBoden · July 2023

I get confused about what is a Riff and what is a Lick. They sound the same.

stickyfiddle · July 2023

GuyBoden said:

I get confused about what is a Riff and what is a Lick. They sound the same.

Riffs are the main motifs that happen usually in the intro of a song and sometimes/often throughout it as well.

Licks are just phrases, often within solos. "Licks" is a stupid word and I don't think I've ever used it outside of this post.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Learning Riffs, how long?

Comments