SORTED - 2 x 12 cabinet - which speakers?

Castro · July 2023

If you had an empty 2 x 12 cabinet that you wanted to use with 3 different heads - Matchless HC30, Swart AST Jr and Two Rock Classic Reverb Signature which speakers would you choose?

Two of the same or two different?

Or is it naive to think that one cabinet could sound great with these heads?

The back of the cabinet is 1/3rd open with the top and bottom panels easy to remove.

The cabinet will be used in a home studio and for small gigs.

Cirrus · July 2023

It really depends on the cab -open back, close back? & for both options, cabs can vary hugely in their low end resonance. If it's a big sounding closed back cab, V30s become god-like for a huge range of music, gain levels etc. tighter sounding, open back, there are tons of better choices.

Personally I don't like mixing and matching speakers, much more artistically satisfying to me to pick one speaker voicing and go all in on it.

ecc83 · July 2023

Pretty easy to make 1/3rd of the back removable and have the choice.

I dare say ICBM will be along in a mo' with the full strength. I have no idea what the power ratings of those amps are? One I guess is nominally 30W? But then, two V30s can take a massive 120W and that is very, 'ing loud! (like 120dB at a mtr)

Dave.

Emiel · July 2023

I would properly pick two Celestion G12-65s or similar WGS ET-65s. Just a great allround speaker. As an example, session man Tom Bukovac uses the former with just about any amp including Marshalls, Matchless' and Fenders and John Mayer uses the latter with his Two Rocks and Dumbles.

Castro · July 2023

Thanks @Cirrus @Emiel @ecc83 ;

The cabinet has the middle 1/3rd open and the other panels easily removed.

fretmeister · July 2023

Emiel said:

I would properly pick two Celestion G12-65s or similar WGS ET-65s. Just a great allround speaker. As an example, session man Tom Bukovac uses the former with just about any amp including Marshalls, Matchless' and Fenders and John Mayer uses the latter with his Two Rocks and Dumbles.

G12-65 are also the cone of choice for James Hetfield on the Ride the Lightning album.

It's a great speaker, versatile, and IMHO is way better than a V30 for just about everything.

StuartMac290 · July 2023

My favourite cabs in the studio have an Alnico Cream and a Creamback and I really like the combination - especially with my Bad Cat BC30, which is a really early one, essentially identical to your HC30

ecc83 · July 2023

Castro said:

Thanks @Cirrus @Emiel @ecc83 ;

The cabinet has the middle 1/3rd open and the other panels easily removed.

No what I meant chuck, removing the other two panels will make little difference. Closing off that 1/3rd, as gas tight as you can, WILL!

You can experiment with a gash bit of ply/MDF and gaffer tape.

Dave.

Winny_Pooh · July 2023

Is the Two Rock 50watts?

If so 2x G12M25s or 2xG12M-65s if you intend to use 100 watts or drive the 50watter at full volume.

If you are a fan of chunky low end then G12Hs (Heavy magnet) 30 or 75s but you will loose some of that nice detailed midrange of the M magnet speakers.

roberty · July 2023

I didn't like any combination of speakers I tried

I have Eminence Governers in my 2x12, they seem fatter than any Celestion I tried which probably suits a (relatively) smaller cab

andy1839 · July 2023

StuartMac290 said:

My favourite cabs in the studio have an Alnico Cream and a Creamback and I really like the combination - especially with my Bad Cat BC30, which is a really early one, essentially identical to your HC30

I have the exact same!
Alnico cream and creamback in a 212.

Every amp I've put through it sounds great, Fender, Marshall or Vox flavour, it doesn't seem to matter.

Yorkie · July 2023

andy1839 said:

StuartMac290 said:

My favourite cabs in the studio have an Alnico Cream and a Creamback and I really like the combination - especially with my Bad Cat BC30, which is a really early one, essentially identical to your HC30

I have the exact same!
Alnico cream and creamback in a 212.

Every amp I've put through it sounds great, Fender, Marshall or Vox flavour, it doesn't seem to matter.

That looks fab. I bet it sounds fab too.

BlackbirdCabs · July 2023

I'd agree with the others in being wary of mixing speakers unless you're up for a fair amount of experimenting. It's fun to do if you have the time, inclination and funds, but I've always ended up returning to using one speaker type.
I think some of it depends on your personality: even when a pair sounds good I find myself wondering why it sounds good, would it sound better with another speaker change, have I lost the character of one of the speakers in the mix etc.

The counter argument to this is that it will be a studio cab so it could be useful to have two different flavours available for recording different guitar parts. One ceramic and one alnico makes sense in this regard so the above pairing could be a good starting point, and they have a big ol' combined wattage as well.

TTBZ · July 2023

If it's going to be moved around a lot I'd definitely recommend at least trying the Neo Creambacks. Even in a 112 it makes a big difference to portability imo, so nice to be able to move a cab with one hand! It does genuinely sound great too, I was a bit skeptical but I love how mine sounds.

Previously I have mixed a Creamback H and a G12H30 with a V30 and loved the result, it sounded huge as each speaker seems to fill the gaps the other one lacks.

Castro · July 2023

Wonderful input from you all, thanks so much.

Dave_Mc · July 2023

I can't recommend specific speakers because I haven't tried those amps, but just in general- I sort of agree with @BlackbirdCabs and sort of disagree. You can't just bung two random speakers together- that can sound horrible fast. But there are several well-known combos which sound good, and there's minimal risk with them. And a good combo (to my ears at least) often sounds better than two of the same speaker. But a bad one sounds much worse...

thomasw88 · July 2023

I've been having a lot of joy with a celestion vtype neo mixed with a creamback.

LastMantra · July 2023

I have a g12-65 and a greenback in mine.

The power ratings are a bit mismatched but it doesn't seem to have any negative effect on the sound and both rated plenty high for my WEM Dom.

I've not got a lot of experience with different cabs but from what I've heard I prefer the sound of a 2x12 over a 4x12. Open back.
Plus I think a relatively small light (to a point) cab can sound better than a big heavy one. I want a bit of life/movement to it!

ecc83 · July 2023

"Plus I think a relatively small light (to a point) cab can sound better than a big heavy one. I want a bit of life/movement to it!"

That is an interesting point. In complete contrast to 'hi fi' speakers, the vibrations of guitar cabs seem to add a certain "something" that we like. This finds its greatest expression in the closed 4x12 where the sound pressure levels cause the greatest panel movement and the panels have the largest radiating area.

It would be interesting to put a 1x12 in a cab made of 6mm ply? Such a beast is unlikely to be made commercially as people would consider it cheap and flimsy but properly made it could be adequately robust.

Also...I wonder what mssrs Blackbird cabs thinks?

Dave.

LastMantra · July 2023

ecc83 said:

"Plus I think a relatively small light (to a point) cab can sound better than a big heavy one. I want a bit of life/movement to it!"
That is an interesting point. In complete contrast to 'hi fi' speakers, the vibrations of guitar cabs seem to add a certain "something" that we like. This finds its greatest expression in the closed 4x12 where the sound pressure levels cause the greatest panel movement and the panels have the largest radiating area.

It would be interesting to put a 1x12 in a cab made of 6mm ply? Such a beast is unlikely to be made commercially as people would consider it cheap and flimsy but properly made it could be adequately robust.

Also...I wonder what mssrs Blackbird cabs thinks?

Dave.

I think there will be a bit of personal preference as to how much "movement" is good.

Some will prefer a more hifi sound.

I don't like a lot of compression either. Prefer an "open" 'vocal" quality. For want of a better term.

For me a 2x12 is more "direct", "punchy" than a 4x12 which has more "whump". As you say, so I suppose, for me, that's too much, baffle movement anyway (which is maybe more specific than generally through the whole cab. open/closed back being another part of the puzzle).

LastMantra · July 2023

For small combo's it's the opposite, I prefer a relatively large cab, with 10/12 inch speaker.

ICBM · July 2023

ecc83 said:

"Plus I think a relatively small light (to a point) cab can sound better than a big heavy one. I want a bit of life/movement to it!"
That is an interesting point. In complete contrast to 'hi fi' speakers, the vibrations of guitar cabs seem to add a certain "something" that we like. This finds its greatest expression in the closed 4x12 where the sound pressure levels cause the greatest panel movement and the panels have the largest radiating area.

It would be interesting to put a 1x12 in a cab made of 6mm ply? Such a beast is unlikely to be made commercially as people would consider it cheap and flimsy but properly made it could be adequately robust.

I think perceptions are changing - if the cab is high quality I think it would be accepted now. That’s basically what Barefaced do - might be 8mm, I can’t remember - although with some internal bracing to stiffen it again.

For me, light/vibrant cabs do sound better for clean and lightly overdriven up to classic rock guitar sounds with more open-sounding speakers, but for the heavier modern sounds you need the tightness of a heavier/stiffer box - which also suits speakers like V30s better.

It’s certainly different from a ‘reproduction’ type cabinet where you always want as close to zero cab resonance as you can get.

BowynMadley · July 2023

Personally I'd mix a set for that setup. Something big and clean like an EVM12L and an alnico for richness and character. Biggest challenge is matching efficiency or one will drown the other out. I've got an oversized 2x12 with an EVM12L in the lower side and a fan Axa12 alnico in the upper. Sounds massive and can handle anything you want to throw at it.

ICBM · July 2023

BowynMadley said:

Personally I'd mix a set for that setup. Something big and clean like an EVM12L and an alnico for richness and character. Biggest challenge is matching efficiency or one will drown the other out. I've got an oversized 2x12 with an EVM12L in the lower side and a fan Axa12 alnico in the upper. Sounds massive and can handle anything you want to throw at it.

If you mix differently-voiced speakers that’s less of a problem - especially if the quieter one is also more midrangy or complex-sounding, it can sound as loud as a cleaner, more scooped one. A classic example is a G12H-30 and a G12M-25 - they sound exactly the same volume in a cab even though the H30 is 2dB more sensitive, because the M25 is fuzzier and more middy.

Those types of mixes work best for me - it also helps if the power rating difference is the right way round to favour the speaker which sounds better driven harder than the one that doesn’t, if you’re using the full capacity of the cab. This also works with the H30/M25 pair.

Kebabkid · July 2023

I had a Tone Tubby 2x12 with their H-Bomb speaker combo = one ceramic and one alnico speaker and used it with a Divided amp head covering both Fender and Vox sounds.

They worked well for sparkly cleans, cimey sounds and for all sorts of gain sounds from low to high with no harshness..

They occasionally pop up on here for reasonable prices and on the basis of my experience, mix n' match worked well

BowynMadley · July 2023

ICBM said:

BowynMadley said:

Personally I'd mix a set for that setup. Something big and clean like an EVM12L and an alnico for richness and character. Biggest challenge is matching efficiency or one will drown the other out. I've got an oversized 2x12 with an EVM12L in the lower side and a fan Axa12 alnico in the upper. Sounds massive and can handle anything you want to throw at it.

If you mix differently-voiced speakers that’s less of a problem - especially if the quieter one is also more midrangy or complex-sounding, it can sound as loud as a cleaner, more scooped one. A classic example is a G12H-30 and a G12M-25 - they sound exactly the same volume in a cab even though the H30 is 2dB more sensitive, because the M25 is fuzzier and more middy.

Those types of mixes work best for me - it also helps if the power rating difference is the right way round to favour the speaker which sounds better driven harder than the one that doesn’t, if you’re using the full capacity of the cab. This also works with the H30/M25 pair.

As far as sensitivity goes both the EV and the Fane are marketed as 101db but we all know different manufacturers rate stuff differently. The EV is definitely louder but the fane softens the sound and adds a little but of grit. I previously had two EVs which is great if like a fairly strident sound

Dave_Mc · July 2023

ICBM said:
For me, light/vibrant cabs do sound better for clean and lightly overdriven up to classic rock guitar sounds with more open-sounding speakers, but for the heavier modern sounds you need the tightness of a heavier/stiffer box - which also suits speakers like V30s better.

That's what I sort of suspect, too- I'm not sure I've tried enough to be sure, but based on limited data, that's what I think.

ICBM said:
If you mix differently-voiced speakers that’s less of a problem - especially if the quieter one is also more midrangy or complex-sounding, it can sound as loud as a cleaner, more scooped one. A classic example is a G12H-30 and a G12M-25 - they sound exactly the same volume in a cab even though the H30 is 2dB more sensitive, because the M25 is fuzzier and more middy.

Those types of mixes work best for me - it also helps if the power rating difference is the right way round to favour the speaker which sounds better driven harder than the one that doesn’t, if you’re using the full capacity of the cab. This also works with the H30/M25 pair.

If you've tried them- does that hold for the Heritage versions too? There's supposedly 4dB difference between them.

And yeah I agree with you, the (standard, non-Heritage) G12M-25 and G12H30 mix (and other similar mixes) works just fine for the reasons you said. V30 and G12T-75 is a similar idea IIRC, and V30 and Classic Lead (though the efficiencies are closer on those two).

Loobs · July 2023

Creamback/V30 is nice.

slugelise · July 2023

Probably makes less difference than you think, there are a million YouTube speaker shootout videos

Eg

*Aaron* · July 2023

andy1839 said:

StuartMac290 said:

My favourite cabs in the studio have an Alnico Cream and a Creamback and I really like the combination - especially with my Bad Cat BC30, which is a really early one, essentially identical to your HC30

I have the exact same!
Alnico cream and creamback in a 212.

Every amp I've put through it sounds great, Fender, Marshall or Vox flavour, it doesn't seem to matter.

Thanks Andy.
I just put these 2 in my cab and really like them. So much so, I am withdrawing my RD amp I have up for sale. Thank goodness no-one brought it.

CHrisP86 · July 2023

I’ve got a WGS Reaper HP and a Veteran in my 2x12 at the moment.

Sounds excellent, nice blend of punch and clarity.

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SORTED - 2 x 12 cabinet - which speakers?

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