Johnny Squire... and my secret confession.

darthed1981 · June 2023

Hi All,

A bit of chat in the Noel G on TPS made me think of the indie rock legend that is John Squire and his career.

My dirty secret is... I enjoy the Seahorses album more than the Stone Roses debut...

Don't get me wrong, the place in the canon of SR compared to Do It Yourself is unquestionable, but something about the way JS lets himself go on the Seahorses album makes it something of a lost masterpiece for me.

Of course he did two solo albums as well I'm guilty of listening to but never really devoting much time to.

What think ye all to the great man?

The Seahorses...

Roses masterpiece...

and of course, showing what can be done with just the Am pentatonic...

RocknRollDave · June 2023

Each to their own, but for me the album that he really lets go on is The Second Coming.

To use the word ‘masterpiece’ in the context of the Seahorses album, though? Absolutely not. One of the biggest anticlimaxes in Indie history, more like.

darthed1981 · June 2023

RocknRollDave said:

Each to their own, but for me the album that he really lets go on is The Second Coming.

To use the word ‘masterpiece’ in the context of the Seahorses album, though? Absolutely not. One of the biggest anticlimaxes in Indie history, more like.

I agree there is some great stuff on the Second Coming.

I disagree with your second statement

munckee · June 2023

Nothing will ever match the stone roses first album for me, I was 14 when it came out, a mate of mine got it on vinyl the day it first turned up in our local record shop and assured us it would be great, a group of us sat in silence and played it through numerous times it was the first band I was a real fan of.

That being said I know JS doesn't think the guitar sounds good enough, he didn't like the pickups I think and he was slightly out of tune (according to him) on I am the resurrection which remains probably my favourite piece of guitar playing ever (possibly along with Tunnel of Love by dire straits).

I saw the seahorses in Portsmouth and he was messing about playing the riff to waterfall between songs and the crowd went nuts, the rest of the band didn't look very amused and I suspected they wouldn't be together long.

darthed1981 · June 2023

munckee said:

Nothing will ever match the stone roses first album for me, I was 14 when it came out, a mate of mine got it on vinyl the day it first turned up in our local record shop and assured us it would be great, a group of us sat in silence and played it through numerous times it was the first band I was a real fan of.

That being said I know JS doesn't think the guitar sounds good enough, he didn't like the pickups I think and he was slightly out of tune (according to him) on I am the resurrection which remains probably my favourite piece of guitar playing ever (possibly along with Tunnel of Love by dire straits).

I saw the seahorses in Portsmouth and he was messing about playing the riff to waterfall between songs and the crowd went nuts, the rest of the band didn't look very amused and I suspected they wouldn't be together long.

That album for me is WTS(MG) by Oasis. There are sort of a handful of songs that sort of together turned me on to rock music in 1996 and I fell down the rabbit hole from there!

ZenOvertone · June 2023

I thought JS went full on Jimmy Page mode live with the Seahorses, showing the kind of things he listened to learning to play - great band.

the_jaffa · June 2023

I’m quite a JS fan but for me it all peaked with the first Roses album. I admire the playing on the Second Coming and like some of the riffs on the Seahorses album but neither of them really grab me like the first album. The Seahorses in particular turned into too much of a wankfest really.

The first SR album for me has the perfect balance of intricate but subtle. The songs are just more interesting to me. Live at that time was perfect too. The guitar sound all started to go a bit wrong for me when he swapped to the Mesa Boogie amps. I can’t really explain how but I definitely prefer the Fender Twin days.

darthed1981 · June 2023

Don't get me wrong, the first SR album is a masterpiece.

Anyone else struggle to sing along to "Made of Stone" blaring out in the car though?

oh_pollo · June 2023

darthed1981 said:

Don't get me wrong, the first SR album is a masterpiece.

Anyone else struggle to sing along to "Made of Stone" blaring out in the car though?

To be fair Ian Brown also struggles to sing it.

darthed1981 · June 2023

oh_pollo said:

darthed1981 said:

Don't get me wrong, the first SR album is a masterpiece.

Anyone else struggle to sing along to "Made of Stone" blaring out in the car though?

To be fair Ian Brown also struggles to sing it.

I meant more the stuff about crashing,burning,frying and melting... but... yeah...

Philly_Q · June 2023

I was going to post "Squier, not Squire".

Force of habit.

Still, that Billy Squier eh? Whatever happened to him?

darthed1981 · June 2023

Philly_Q said:

I was going to post "Squier, not Squire".

Force of habit.

Still, that Billy Squier eh? Whatever happened to him?

He's still alive!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Squier

darthed1981 · June 2023

Philly_Q said:

I was going to post "Squier, not Squire".

John Squier, a lot like John Squire but cheaper to buy his rig...

lustycourtier · June 2023

The second coming is the best stone roses record, but I love johns solo records best. Time changes everything is just wonderful. He also stood in my hand once, and said sorry mid song

darthed1981 · June 2023

lustycourtier said:

He also stood in my hand once, and said sorry mid song

Is John tiny, or do you have really big hands?

Redlester · June 2023

Love is the Law is some of the best ‘bite your lip and go for it’ playing in British rock.

JS had a lovely flow to his playing earlier, but by the mid-90s it had got a lot more edgy-

Yes, one of the greats.

guitartango · June 2023

They are both good albums, But for me you can't top Waterfall or be adored. I love Squires playing , so underrated.

Sleepyscholar · June 2023

guitartango said:

They are both good albums, But for me you can't top Waterfall or be adored. I love Squires playing , so underrated.

Who's it underrated by? I don't remember ever seeing anyone diss his playing.

GoFish · June 2023

He Hates Horses?

darthed1981 · June 2023

Sleepyscholar said:

guitartango said:

They are both good albums, But for me you can't top Waterfall or be adored. I love Squires playing , so underrated.

Who's it underrated by? I don't remember ever seeing anyone diss his playing.

Ian Brown probably has a few negative things to say about him...

I genuinely feel sorry for long-term Roses fans, you go from the masterpiece first album, OK Brown can't fucking sing, but you had those songs and JS on stage, plus no flies at all on Mani and Reni.

You can take or leave everything since (though I know a lot of good stuff on SC and I love the Seahorses, Brown has done a few good solo tracks)...

But live Squire has basically retired, and Brown now does Karaoke... if you have been a fan for 35 years you deserve better.

mrkb · June 2023

The first album was the weaker one, it’s Second Coming that’s the masterpiece.

darthed1981 · June 2023

mrkb said:

The first album was the weaker one, it’s Second Coming that’s the masterpiece.

@mrkb - well that should stimulate a bit of discussion

RocknRollDave · June 2023

mrkb said:

The first album was the weaker one, it’s Second Coming that’s the masterpiece.

I’m undecided. In fact, they’re so different that it’s like two different bands.

I like them both, but for different reasons.
I would like to hear the first album with a different production….I know it would probably lose as much as it would gain, but still.

darthed1981 · June 2023

RocknRollDave said:
I would like to hear the first album with a different production….

The 20th anniversary remaster was quite effective, "Made of Stone" hasn't got the "recorded behind a shower curtain" thing that it did on early CD versions at least.

As for the two albums...

The first one is the album that the "Stone Roses" did, great crossover between "shoegaze" and 90s indie, great indie rock songs from beginning to end.

The "Second Coming" is for the most part an entirely different band, with the same name, doing a quite self-indulgent tribute to Led Zep and other riff heavy 70s rock. Everything on it is about three minutes too long, but it doesn't mean it isn't bluddy good in places, and now the "disappointment" of it's time has worn off, it's at the very least 70 minutes of one of the great guitarists.

darthed1981 · June 2023

...Just put Second Coming on, I'd gorgotten it's nearly five sodding minutes of funny noises before the songs actually start

RocknRollDave · June 2023

darthed1981 said:

...Just put Second Coming on, I'd gorgotten it's nearly five sodding minutes of funny noises before the songs actually start

Oh yeah, that DEFINITELY should have been chopped off into a separate track so it could easily be skipped!

shugz · June 2023

Squire is one of the very best. I'm influenced both musically and by his artworks.

For me the Roses as a band are a little overrated but the individual musicians, quite underrated, Squire and Reni in particular.

DIY is a great record that suffered not being a Stone Roses record. At the time there was SO much hype on it. I was at their (The Seahorses) second gig in a small club in Greenock (nr Glasgow, West of Scotland) and saw a big guitar hero of mine play his 3 pickup Custom about 10ft away. A huge impression left, plus they kicked the arse right out of Love Is The Law and no one knew it!

I think in terms of layering and overall work the first album is probably up there. Not too little, not too much. Second Coming was the geetar album though and for me untouchable even if it wasn't for the baggy jeans majority. Daybreak is their best for me - that has so much time and groove other acts in that genre could never get in a million years.

In terms of albums, always thought they really stood at 4 albums but only 2 being released. There should have been one before the first (aka Garage Flowers), the official first, then an album in between that and The SC (stuff along the lines of Somethings Burning) then The SC.

Don't be sad it's over, be grateful it ever happened at all eh?

H

munckee · June 2023

mrkb said:

The first album was the weaker one, it’s Second Coming that’s the masterpiece.

You need to stop drinking in the morning mate, Second coming very good album, not a patch on the first or turns into stone even.

mrkb · June 2023

munckee said:

mrkb said:

The first album was the weaker one, it’s Second Coming that’s the masterpiece.

You need to stop drinking in the morning mate, Second coming very good album, not a patch on the first or turns into stone even.

Im a guitarist not a druggie so first album is too slow - "sugar spun sister" and "shoot you down", - slow and boring, "Dont stop" - play the last song backward cop out, "Elizabeth my dear" - crap filler.

Where as second album has great melodic texture and awesome guitar riffs.

munckee · June 2023

mrkb said:

munckee said:

mrkb said:

The first album was the weaker one, it’s Second Coming that’s the masterpiece.

You need to stop drinking in the morning mate, Second coming very good album, not a patch on the first or turns into stone even.

Im a guitarist not a druggie so first album is too slow - "sugar spun sister" and "shoot you down", - slow and boring, "Dont stop" - play the last song backward cop out, "Elizabeth my dear" - crap filler.

Where as second album has great melodic texture and awesome guitar riffs.

But I wanna be adored, she bangs the drums, waterfall, this is the one, made of stone and I am the resurrection about as good a collection of songs on any album ever.

darthed1981 · June 2023

I actually listened to both roses albums the last couple of days.

Stone Roses is superior to me (no drugs, a few fruit ciders) but Second Coming sure has its moments.

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Johnny Squire... and my secret confession.

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