Is there a pick-up that’s actually ok to record yet?

brucegill · June 2023

Looking for a pickup for a Wee Lowden that’s actually worth it for some recording. Obviously I know acoustic sounds best with a proper mic, but for a quick and easy solution I wondered if there’s anything worth trying?

No piezo, as I hate the sound of those. Never had much luck with sound hole pickups (Lowden might not take them with the thick sound hole?). So microphone versions maybe?

Just want to plug it in, maybe even via some effect pedals, straight into a sampler or interface.

Lyric?

bertie · June 2023

the answer is always use a mic, even a "cheap" one will sound better than a pickup 3 times the cost - but if you're thinking of recording from live............I dont know

brucegill · June 2023

bertie said:

the answer is always use a mic, even a "cheap" one will sound better than a pickup 3 times the cost - but if you're thinking of recording from live............I dont know

yup, get that... But if I want to quickly sample something, that means I need to get a mic out, xlr cable, switch settings on my interface, sort mic placement out etc etc etc...

If there was something with a reasonably full sound, thats one guitar cable into the sampler. done

thermionic · June 2023

brucegill said:

If there was something with a reasonably full sound, thats one guitar cable into the sampler. done

A Telecaster?

brucegill · June 2023

thermionic said:

brucegill said:

If there was something with a reasonably full sound, thats one guitar cable into the sampler. done

A Telecaster?

thanks for your help

Winny_Pooh · June 2023

I have a seymour duncan magmic and with the mic blend up high it sounds quite excellent.

If mag pickup really wont fit then buy an Audio Technica AT831, it's a mini mic, has a dedicated soundhole clip and sounds great. The AT pro70 is a budget version.

brucegill · June 2023

Winny_Pooh said:

I have a seymour duncan magmic and with the mic blend up high it sounds quite excellent.

If mag pickup really wont fit then buy an Audio Technica AT831, it's a mini mic, has a dedicated soundhole clip and sounds great. The AT pro70 is a budget version.

Thank you, quick search and that sounds pretty nice for sure! Just need to check the max depth of the sound board allowed....

brucegill · June 2023

damn it. My sound hole is only 3.5"... 3.75 is the smallest it will fit in.

malcolmkindness · June 2023

I would suggest a K&K but it would be a hell of a job fitting it into a wee Lowden.

steamabacus · June 2023

Have you thought about a piezo with an impulse response modelling pre-amp. I've no personal experience with this but the technology has improved massively in recent years. Even the mini TC Electronic IR pedal supports acoustic guitar impulses.

marxski · June 2023

I’ve been reading up on this - backstory my electric recorded great with an AkG 214 and one of those SE Electronics Mic shroud devices. My acoustic I was disappointed with as even with the mic shroud I could hear the boxy untreated room…. A great sounding guitar but the condenser is too sensitive in a spare bedroom. I’ve since read that for untreated rooms an SM57 dynamic with a cloudlifter works very well. I have an SM58 so I will try this with the basket removed.

Can’t help with a pickup for recording but thought I’d share this info.

brucegill · June 2023

marxski said:

I’ve been reading up on this - backstory my electric recorded great with an AkG 214 and one of those SE Electronics Mic shroud devices. My acoustic I was disappointed with as even with the mic shroud I could hear the boxy untreated room…. A great sounding guitar but the condenser is too sensitive in a spare bedroom. I’ve since read that for untreated rooms an SM57 dynamic with a cloudlifter works very well. I have an SM58 so I will try this with the basket removed.

Can’t help with a pickup for recording but thought I’d share this info.

Many thanks! I’d not considered a cloud lifter.

brucegill · June 2023

steamabacus said:

Have you thought about a piezo with an impulse response modelling pre-amp. I've no personal experience with this but the technology has improved massively in recent years. Even the mini TC Electronic IR pedal supports acoustic guitar impulses.

Thanks, really trying to keep it as simple and no fuss. Don’t really have the room to leave all that set up.

It’s looking like my SM57 is the quickest route after all. Hay ho

brucegill · June 2023

malcolmkindness said:

I would suggest a K&K but it would be a hell of a job fitting it into a wee Lowden.

Many thanks. Yes, it’s probably a little tight in there lol

shufflebeat · June 2023

AT Pro70:
https://www.audio-technica.com/en-gb/pro70

iRig acoustic stage:
https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigacousticstage/

AKG c411pp (great for fingerpicking):
https://www.akg.com/Microphones/Condenser%20Microphones/C411PP.html

Also consider a used Sony ecm-55 or 88 omni lapel mic. Blu-Tac it to the end of the fingerboard, plug in (if you have XLR) and go.

brucegill · June 2023

shufflebeat said:

AT Pro70:
https://www.audio-technica.com/en-gb/pro70

Ooooh, that looks perfect! And battery powered rather than 48v! Like it. many thanks mate. Not seen this one. I have a DPA 4099 thats great, if a little fiddly and also needs 48v, so this could be a perfect quick choice.

shufflebeat · June 2023

brucegill said:

shufflebeat said:

AT Pro70:
https://www.audio-technica.com/en-gb/pro70

Ooooh, that looks perfect! And battery powered rather than 48v! Like it. many thanks mate. Not seen this one. I have a DPA 4099 thats great, if a little fiddly and also needs 48v, so this could be a perfect quick choice.

It has a very clever little mic clip that hooks on to the edge of the sound hole with a soft felt lining to avoid damage to the guitar. It’s adjustable for distance which makes a difference.

If memory serves it’s cardioid as well which makes it better for manipulating extraneous room sound.

LastMantra · June 2023

brucegill said:

shufflebeat said:

AT Pro70:
https://www.audio-technica.com/en-gb/pro70

Ooooh, that looks perfect! And battery powered rather than 48v! Like it. many thanks mate. Not seen this one. I have a DPA 4099 thats great, if a little fiddly and also needs 48v, so this could be a perfect quick choice.

I've got a mic like that (not sure what brand or model) and it’s quite handy. I've had good results in front of my amp, but not tried on an acoustic yet.

brucegill · June 2023

shufflebeat said:

brucegill said:

shufflebeat said:

AT Pro70:
https://www.audio-technica.com/en-gb/pro70

Ooooh, that looks perfect! And battery powered rather than 48v! Like it. many thanks mate. Not seen this one. I have a DPA 4099 thats great, if a little fiddly and also needs 48v, so this could be a perfect quick choice.

It has a very clever little mic clip that hooks on to the edge of the sound hole with a soft felt lining to avoid damage to the guitar. It’s adjustable for distance which makes a difference.

If memory serves its cardioid as well which makes it better for manipulating extraneous room sound.

Looks like they’ve been around for a while so might see if I can grab one used. Looks really handy tbh. Many thanks

ICBM · June 2023

The Fishman Aura Spectrum sounds really natural - it models studio-quality mic’ed guitars. Not cheap though.

It’s best driven by a passive undersaddle piezo, ironically - but that does also mean it’s very non-invasive.

brucegill · June 2023

ICBM said:

The Fishman Aura Spectrum sounds really natural - it models studio-quality mic’ed guitars. Not cheap though.

It’s best driven by a passive undersaddle piezo, ironically - but that does also mean it’s very non-invasive.

Many thanks. I’ll take a listen!

maltingsaudio · June 2023

Hunt down an old Mike Vanden Nemesis sound hole pickup, they were awesome but he sold the design to Fishman and the rest is history.

brucegill · June 2023

maltingsaudio said:

Hunt down an old Mike Vanden Nemesis sound hole pickup, they were awesome but he sold the design to Fishman and the rest is history.

Many thanks. Looks like he does another one called the Mimesis. At least I can actually contact him and check it’ll fit!

shufflebeat · June 2023

brucegill said:

maltingsaudio said:

Hunt down an old Mike Vanden Nemesis sound hole pickup, they were awesome but he sold the design to Fishman and the rest is history.

Many thanks. Looks like he does another one called the Mimesis. At least I can actually contact him and check it’ll fit!

I have an old mandolin pickup of his which I think would easily cover a small scale 6-string. I had it in a mandola for years but it was eventually retired for a K&K, now has a Baggs UST through an IR box.

Mike Vanden was very helpful with the fitting in a non-standard instrument.

brucegill · June 2023

@shufflebeat Good to hear! Thanks

shufflebeat · June 2023

You should be aware that even a nice mag pickup will still sound like a mag pickup and if you intend to use bronze or phosphor-bronze strings you will be presented with a whole new set of issues.

ICBM · June 2023

shufflebeat said:

You should be aware that even a nice mag pickup will still sound like a mag pickup and if you intend to use bronze or phosphor-bronze strings you will be presented with a whole new set of issues.

Not with a properly-designed one - they're balanced for bronze strings. Yes, they still sound to some extent like a magnetic pickup, but ones with onboard preamps like the Vanden Mimesis, Fishman Rare Earth and LR Baggs M1A much less obviously so - they certainly don't sound like electric guitars.

In my opinion they don't actually sound less like an acoustic guitar than a traditional undersaddle piezo does, just different and actually more natural, without that distinctive tizzy piezo attack which is difficult to un-hear once you've become familiar with it.

I still think a modelling system like the Aura is the current best option other than an external mic though.

maltingsaudio · June 2023

brucegill said:

maltingsaudio said:

Hunt down an old Mike Vanden Nemesis sound hole pickup, they were awesome but he sold the design to Fishman and the rest is history.

Many thanks. Looks like he does another one called the Mimesis. At least I can actually contact him and check it’ll fit!

You say Mimesis I say Nemesis! Actually a brain fart! But great to see Mike still doing them. I have an old one Mrs M has nicked and won’t give back, and a Fishman in my old 12 string , talk about chalk and cheese!

brucegill · June 2023

maltingsaudio said:

brucegill said:

maltingsaudio said:

Hunt down an old Mike Vanden Nemesis sound hole pickup, they were awesome but he sold the design to Fishman and the rest is history.

Many thanks. Looks like he does another one called the Mimesis. At least I can actually contact him and check it’ll fit!

You say Mimesis I say Nemesis! Actually a brain fart! But great to see Mike still doing them. I have an old one Mrs M has nicked and won’t give back, and a Fishman in my old 12 string , talk about chalk and cheese!

Haha. I did think the name was a little too close to your original name lol.

shufflebeat · June 2023

ICBM said:

shufflebeat said:

You should be aware that even a nice mag pickup will still sound like a mag pickup and if you intend to use bronze or phosphor-bronze strings you will be presented with a whole new set of issues.

Not with a properly-designed one - they're balanced for bronze strings. Yes, they still sound to some extent like a magnetic pickup, but ones with onboard preamps like the Vanden Mimesis, Fishman Rare Earth and LR Baggs M1A much less obviously so - they certainly don't sound like electric guitars.

In my opinion they don't actually sound less like an acoustic guitar than a traditional undersaddle piezo does, just different and actually more natural, without that distinctive tizzy piezo attack which is difficult to un-hear once you've become familiar with it.

I still think a modelling system like the Aura is the current best option other than an external mic though.

This is a conversation that has been had in instalments in this place and elsewhere and it really comes down to expectations and taste. Unfortunately there’s no way to design out
the laws of physics and bronze/PB don’t react to mag pickups - full stop. I’ve heard the pickups that are “designed for bronze strings” and - they’re not.

For the record, I have the Vanden (as mentioned), the original Aura, Takamine, a Baggs m1a, a Fishman Neo-D, various K&Ks, Ultra-Tonic, Tonedexter, AG Stomp and Mooer Radar and the kit I mentioned earlier so I’m not talking from a theoretical position.

I’m quite old and very curious.

Lestratcaster · June 2023

I use the Schertler AG6 + S-Mic to record sometimes with the mic blend on 100%. Sounds pretty good to me, other times I'll use an AKG P170 condenser that I got for £59 that's very warm, natural sounding.

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Is there a pick-up that’s actually ok to record yet?

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