Terrible acoustic guitar brands

ICBM · May 2023

The use of illegal rainforest timber is a completely different issue from crap guitars - although more important. I totally agree that buying new guitars made in China or Indonesia is likely to be contributing to rainforest destruction, and that alone should be a reason to look elsewhere.

But one of the problems is that guitarists are so conservative that manufacturers trying to use different, even very similar from a functional and appearance point of view, tends to provoke a backlash about ‘quality’ - Fender using Indian laurel instead of rosewood is a prime example. I have no idea if the laurel itself is sourced responsibly either.

At the end of the day most of us just need to buy fewer guitars - I’m not innocent either, although it’s a very long time since I bought a new guitar. (But buying second hand isn’t a complete get-out, since whoever sold it may be buying another new one.)

Tannin · May 2023

I mostly agree with you @ICBM, except for your view that "most of us just need to buy fewer guitars". That makes no sense, given the far, far larger quantities of timber used wasted on low-value applications, ranging from cheap throw-away furniture through to non-recycled concrete forms.

The actual quantity of timber used for guitars is tiny. Utterly insignificant in the scheme of things.

It is the rarity of guitar timbers which is the root of the problem. As you say, guitarists ignorantly insist on having instruments made from just a handful of same-old, same-old traditional timbers, and as a result, those species are being wiped out.

In fact, it is not only possible to make a guitar from any of a huge range of alternative timbers, it very often results in a better instrument. I have two guitars (out of 8) made from the traditional tropical rainforest timbers and it is no coincidence that these two are the ones at the top of my disposal list. The mahogany one will certainly go sometime in the next year or so to make room for something nicer, and the rosewood one, lovely instrument though it is, might be the next one out the door (subject to negotiations with Mrs Tannin re the amount of space my guitars take up).

It is entirely possible and practicable to make fine instruments from sustainable (mostly plantation-grown) timbers. Doing so is no bad thing - far less damaging than many of the other things we do as consumers. A good quality guitar lasts for many, many years and safely stores the embedded carbon for that time. Meanwhile, the tree regrows and the cycle repeats. But only where the harvesting cycle is ethical and sustainable.

GoFish · May 2023

Too add to the above, ther's often little actual logic to the choice of timbers - influenced by fashion, 'tradition" and availability. Agreed that mass consumption and waste is a far bigger issue than guitars, but we're all implicated in rainforest loss and the world in general probably does not need any more guitars or certainly guitar factories. I shudder to think how much Mahogany and Rosewood furniture has been disposed of in the Twentieth century.

@Drofluf - Thanks for the correction, that's exactly the mistake I made.

Kilgore · May 2023

guitarjack66 said:

I have reasonably good experiences of Fender acoustics. Obviously I buy cheaper, but with a good set up they are fine guitars. Probably not so good for gigging but fine for home use.

My first acoustic was a Fender CD60. Back then I didn't have the experience or knowledge to know if it was any good.

Looking back however, there was absolutely nothing wrong with it as a beginners instrument. Fender sell a shed load of them as well.

ICBM · May 2023

Tannin said:

In fact, it is not only possible to make a guitar from any of a huge range of alternative timbers, it very often results in a better instrument. I have two guitars (out of 8) made from the traditional tropical rainforest timbers and it is no coincidence that these two are the ones at the top of my disposal list.

As you probably already know, my all-time favourite guitar is my Gibson Dove, which apart from its fingerboard and bridge is all maple and spruce - and I'd be perfectly happy if the fingerboard and bridge were some other similar hardwood than rosewood. In my opinion maple is not only a perfectly acceptable body wood, this is the best all-round acoustic guitar I've ever heard.

I admit I do also have an all-mahogany parlour guitar... but I don't think I'd buy a new one.

You're right that the quantities used in the guitar industry are tiny, but that's a bit like saying that because the USA and China dwarf the carbon emissions of the UK, it's fine for the British to drive the biggest SUVs they can find as it makes an insignificant difference overall. It is technically true, but it's missing the point.

Tannin · May 2023

Again, I mostly agree. In particular I agree with you about Rock Maple - a wonderful tonewood and not in the least threatened. My treasured Tacoma Thunderhawk is made from spruce and maple and it is an awesome beast.

I don't really agree about the comparison with the "insignificant contribution" argument. Sustainably sourced timbers - which all forward-looking, responsible manufacturers either use already or are transitioning to - are indeed sustainable. We can go on using (e.g.) Blackwood at the current rate forever without ever endangering the species or running out of it. Doubling the rate would be no problem. Beyond a certain level (I don't know what that level is - 3x current usage? 5x? 10x?) it becomes overharvested and unsustainable.

In fact there is nothing wrong with using any species at a rate which is long-term sustainable. For some species, however, that long-term sustainable rate is far lower than market demand. We need to transition out of those species and where possible increase supply. Above all, we need to stop bloody wasting precious timbers on short-term low-value stupidities.

Ebony is a good example. Wasting it on cheap, low-value guitars which are destined to become landfill inside the decade is criminal. Thankfully, we have (mostly) now learned to stop wasting vast amounts of it by throwing away any bit that isn't completely inky black. And there are many other good fretboard timbers, some of them very much sustainable.

Stuckfast · May 2023

The worst guitar I ever played was a Hohner 12-string. It sounded as though they had considered cardboard as a construction material, then rejected it on grounds of cost.

DrJazzTap · May 2023

Yeah the whole point of me getting involved with this is that I felt I have enough guitars already. Sure its nice to look and so forth. But when push comes to shove I only really need three.
I was just noticing some cheap guitars that with a bit of tlc would be absolutely fine for beginners. It's a wonder what a few adjustments on a truss rod makes.

hollywoodrox · May 2023

shufflebeat said:

Whistler said:

shufflebeat said:
I was expecting Stagg to crop up.

For me, Stagg, like Fender, makes both good and naff stuff.

LastMantra said:

So they maybe have a place, somewhere.
To be fair, I have a Stagg LDC mic in a box somewhere which has earned the right to stay as it’s one of only two LDCs I have with an omni setting, which can be handy.

I think they do a passable sm57 clone too

LastMantra · May 2023

DrJazzTap said:

Yeah the whole point of me getting involved with this is that I felt I have enough guitars already. Sure its nice to look and so forth. But when push comes to shove I only really need three.
I was just noticing some cheap guitars that with a bit of tlc would be absolutely fine for beginners. It's a wonder what a few adjustments on a truss rod makes.

I'm all for it. I've bought a couple of really cheap guitars from charity shops that were unplayable as they were in the shop and managed to get them working, not great but do the job. I just gave them to people that had said they were planning to buy a new cheapy anyway.

I agree with IC, not just buying less guitars, but less stuff all together.
Just because it's really easy to buy things these days doesn't necessarily mean you should.

Wazmeister · May 2023

ICBM said:

I honestly think there are very few truly terrible guitar brands, certainly from the last 40 years.

I agree with ICBM here...

Compared to the standard when I first started playing (412 years ago...), it is vastly improved.

Man, even my mate has a cheap Cort, and it plays lovely.

But what do I know ? I'm hedging towards buying a really expensive acoustic, as I run blindly down the latest rabbit hole

ICBM · May 2023

Wazmeister said:

Compared to the standard when I first started playing (412 years ago...), it is vastly improved.

Man, even my mate has a cheap Cort, and it plays lovely.

But what do I know ? I'm hedging towards buying a really expensive acoustic, as I run blindly down the latest rabbit hole

You can have both. I own a £4K hand made parlour guitar, but I still love old Ekos… they were one of the better cheap brands in the 1970s!

The singer I used to work with has one which I used to play round at her flat and we wrote most of our songs on. I have yet to write anything on the parlour, nice though it is.

Tannin · May 2023

Yep. They don't make bad guitars like they used to. Well, the real crap is still genuine first-class crap, but the medium-poor to mediocre stuff of today is actually playable. That was certainly not true in 1970.

PS @Wazmeister - Cort is not a terrible brand, far from it. Cort is one of the biggest guitar manufactures in the world and makes a huge number of instruments, most of them rebranded and sold by other, often better-known, names. Sure, they are not by any stretch of the imagination great, but they are not terrible either.

guitarjack66 · May 2023

flying_pie said:

I recall playing a Harley Benton acoustic well over 10 years ago. It was the worst guitar I've ever played. The build, setup and intonation was so bad it was impossible to play anything other than a single note in tune

I have had one Harley Benton Acoustic and although it only cost 65 pounds once you've paid for a set up etc that is over a 100. This was about a year ago and I sold it within about three months as it was total crap. Not sure I'd bother again now.

Tannin · May 2023

^ Nahh. You just had to change the pickups.

Smellyfingers · May 2023

It’s interesting that everyone seems to equate ‘terrible’ with very cheap.

Surely really terrible is something like spending two and half grand on a guitar, then finding out that a £600 Yamaha or Furch actually sounds better?

Tannin · May 2023

Nahh. We already have plenty of Gibson threads.

Tannin · May 2023

Actually, now that you mention it, I played a couple of truly awful Martins the other day. You might put my dislike of the US-made D-15M down as a matter of taste. (But I doubt that. Some people love D-15Ms and I cannot easily imagine anyone loving the sound of the one I played.) But the D-10 was simply awful any way you sliced it. It would have been awful next to a rack full of plywood cheapies, and they are asking $1499 (£800 plus VAT) for it. Shame on you Martin.

Open_G · May 2023

I bought a “swift” acoustic bass on eBay very very cheaply. Although it was new and allegedly set up I couldn’t get it to play many notes without buzzes, rattles and actually fretting a note 3 frets up the neck in one spot. In the end I ripped the frets out with a nail
punch and some pliers.

In terms of 6 stringers. I remember playing a particularly bad Hondo a few years ago.

Mellish · May 2023

I got my first acoustic in the summer of 1960, from Woolworths. It was a dirt cheap Kay. Terrible, terrible thing.

The string height was really bad, buzzing at the nut, the logo was simply a sticker on the headstock with a "K" on it.

But to me, as a 15yr old, it was the business. I learned on it and it wasn't until the winter of '65/'66 that I got something better from mum's mail-order catalogue.

If you really want to learn, "terrible" shouldn't stop you. It's just a stepping stone.

OK, not what the thread is about, just saying........ I'll get me coat.

pintspiller · May 2023

I bought a used Encore about 12 years ago. Seemed to sound fine but played like a dog.

I tried to record it about a year ago. Sounded like shite with a SM57. Tried a cheap stick on thing. Sounded worse. Was terrible when I bought an Artec soundhole pickup.

Sold it for £20 (what I paid for it) and bought a used Fender G60CE for £60. Records reasonably well and easier to play and sounds better than the Encore. Didn't see the point in forking out £200+ on something that doesn't get played often.

Open_G · May 2023

pintspiller said:

I bought a used Encore about 12 years ago. Seemed to sound fine but played like a dog.

I tried to record it about a year ago. Sounded like shite with a SM57. Tried a cheap stick on thing. Sounded worse. Was terrible when I bought an Artec soundhole pickup.

Sold it for £20 (what I paid for it) and bought a used Fender G60CE for £60. Records reasonably well and easier to play and sounds better than the Encore. Didn't see the point in forking out £200+ on something that doesn't get played often.

It’s an example of how qc varies here I think but nearly 20 years ago, I was asked to play a strummalong thing at a funeral at short notice while at the other end of the country. I dashed to Argos and spent £79 on an encore. It’s perfectly playable and sounds great for what it is. The on board piezo sounds pretty good too.

guitarjack66 · May 2023

Mellish said:

I got my first acoustic in the summer of 1960, from Woolworths. It was a dirt cheap Kay. Terrible, terrible thing.

The string height was really bad, buzzing at the nut, the logo was simply a sticker on the headstock with a "K" on it.

But to me, as a 15yr old, it was the business. I learned on it and it wasn't until the winter of '65/'66 that I got something better from mum's mail-order catalogue.

If you really want to learn, "terrible" shouldn't stop you. It's just a stepping stone.

OK, not what the thread is about, just saying........ I'll get me coat.

Terrible first verse for a pop song!

Mellish · May 2023

@guitarjack66 ; I did write a song way back in '72. "Rambling Son Of A Bitch" that I often include in my gigs.

That song was supposed to make me a fortune

guitarjack66 · May 2023

Mellish said:

@guitarjack66 ; I did write a song way back in '72. "Rambling Son Of A Bitch" that I often include in my gigs.

That song was supposed to make me a fortune

This time next lifetime you will be a millionaire!
He who Dares Wins! lol

Tannin · May 2023

In our next lifetime, assuming it starts sometime soon after this one comes to an end, a millionaire will be able to afford a coffee and a bus fare, not much else.

Once upon a time, a pound was a small fortune.

Smellyfingers · May 2023

Tannin said:

Nahh. We already have plenty of Gibson threads.

What I was looking for is some confessions eg ‘I invested 3k in a custom Gibson because the price guaranteed that it would be best … but then I tried a friend’s £300 Epiphone.. etc

Bu perhaps I am the only one who could be this stupid.

bluecat · May 2023

About 18 years ago I tried a Tanglewood dn45 DLX in a small local music shop, on the strength of playerbility and sweet mellow tone I parted with £500. Plus about £80.extra for a hard case . The guy in the shop said it would play and sound like a Taylor, once it was played in. He was not wrong,over the years it has got an even better sweet mellow tone. With the Martin bridge pins it is even better.
But I have been reading on here from a few people that Tanglewood are rated as crap guitars,have I just been lucky?
It is certainly a keeper for me, I will never part with it.

Tannin · May 2023

I don't regard Tanglewood as crap guitars, @bluecat, I just wouldn't touch one because China and forest destruction. I particularly dislike brands which try to pretend that they are not made in China/Indonesia. (E.g., Tasman, Faith, Maestro, Altimera.) At least Eastman and Cort don't try to pretend they are not what they are.

Monkeybone · May 2023

Tannin said:

I don't regard Tanglewood as crap guitars, @bluecat, I just wouldn't touch one because China and forest destruction. I particularly dislike brands which try to pretend that they are not made in China/Indonesia. (E.g., Tasman, Faith, Maestro, Altimera.) At least Eastman and Cort don't try to pretend they are not what they are.

Faith don't pretend to be made anywhere but Indonesia, the labels inside the guitars say Made in Indonesia. They're designed by Patrick Eggle, who is British, Barnes And Mullins are the distributors. However, Faith's Monarch range actually is UK made.

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