Terrible acoustic guitar brands

DrJazzTap · May 2023

I have started carrying out set ups for a local charity. The vast majority of the guitars I've been working on are quite surprising.

Nothing too ornate as most of them are donations. A lot of them are brands I've never encountered- brunswick, Westfield, vibra, lindo and finally Martin Smith.

The martin smith brand seems to be the sort of guitar you'd see in a supermarket. After I've cleaned and set a guitar up, I'll play the first few chords of the Johnny cash version of hurt.

I set up a martin Smith and my partner said "still sounds like shite". They have heavily dyed fretboards and feel like they came out of a cracker.

Whereas I've been pleasantly surprised by some encores and an eko those martin Smith guitars are pure cack. I tended to naively think most guitars are pretty good these days. I just wondered if I should steer away from any other brands?

Devil#20 · May 2023

Fender for starters.

ditchboy · May 2023

Yeah those Martin smiths are tragic or the ones I’ve seen are. The sort of guitar you start out with and never progress as you can’t stand to pick it up.

Kilgore · May 2023

Zager.

I can't claim to have ever played one but they're usually described as nothing less than a 'scam'.

I'm not saying they are 'objectively' crap but they're flogging lots of the models for $2000+.

A sales model that looks like it's borrowed from shopping channels and double glazing companies.

Just take a look at the website.

Maybe they're OK, as I said, no personal experience but I wouldn't shell out a couple of hundred never mind 2K.

LastMantra · May 2023

Don't know about acoustics, but I had a Westfield electric which was fine.

BillDL · May 2023

Westfield guitars were a lot better than most of the budget "starter" guitars through the 90s and into the 2000s. I have had a few Westfield electrics and acoustics. The electrics sat somewhere between the Squier Bullet and Affinity range and most of them were just South Korean or Chinese Strat and Gibson copies. The acoustics were a lot better than most Martin Smith, Brunswick and Lindo guitars mentioned and actually quite nice playable guitars. They were a small company started by a guy named Paul Howard who started trading from his garage right at the end of the 80s and gradually worked his way up to a pretty large warehouse by the mid 2000s supplying just about every form of musical equipment. I was in his warehouse right at the start. They were pretty much limited to the UK but he set up a good network of trade with local council education departments and most of the smaller music shops. He also sold some other brands (Rossini, Lauren and Session Pro), but I'm not sure if they were "own brands". Unfortunately, like others, he was affected by smaller guitar stores closing and leaving bills unpaid plus online purchasing reducing his margins, and the company folded in 2013.

Brunswick, Martin Smith, Adam Black, Coban, Stagg, and a number of other such brands are generally the brands bought as "starter packs" as Christmas presents for kids on Amazon and from smaller music shops and end up on Gumtree.

Lindo is an odd one. They started as an eBay only seller and I believe the bulk of their stuff bearing all kinds of odd brand names was drop-shipped from a wholesaler. They eventually acquired premises that I think may now be a shop and showroom, but they are otherwise similar to the other companies selling starter packs online. They have latched onto a niche in the market by having a lot of their guitars built using bamboo and designed some different styles that were unique to them. Their selling point is the fancy and gaudy finishes that are definitely aimed at young aspiring rockers, but I suspect most of the guitars end up on Gumtree, eBay or Crack Converters. As pointed out in another thread here, one of their electric guitars (or bass) bears more than an uncanny "homage" to a PRS. The older guitars were not great quality, but some of the newer ones I have seen are of reasonable to good build quality.

Tannin · May 2023

Random notes excerpted from my guitar brands file about some bad and as few not-so-bad makers.

(Written for Oz-based buyers, read at your own risk.)

ASHTON: Common, ultra-cheap. You see them in shop windows curling up in the sun like last week's lettuce. FOR: Price. AGAINST: everything else. SUM-UP: Firewood.

TIMBERIDGE: Australian importer's brand name for stuff it brings in from China.

ARTIST: A different Australian importer's brand name for cheap stuff it brings in from China. Only sold on-line, which cuts out the middleman, and stops anyone trying it out before parting with the money. FOR: cheap. AGAINST: cheap. SUM-UP: cheap.

TASMAN: Coming to you from a Secret Location. The beautifully produced literature tells you all about Australia, and Australian history, and skilled hand crafting, and only the very, very best. Worldwide, only a select half-dozen other brands are able to produce marketing bullshit of such a high and consistent standard. Tasman guitars are actually made in a sweatshop somewhere cheap and undisclosed, mostly out of plywood.

CORT: South Korean company, manufacturing in Korea, China, and Indonesia. Possibly the biggest guitar manufacturer in the world as it makes a heap of other-brand instruments under contract as well as its own-brand ones.

SAMICK: South Korean company, mostly manufacturing in Indonesia. Another giant of the industry, making cheap-to-medium guitars under their own name and for all sorts of brands, including Washburn, Honer, and Epiphone. Like Cort, Samick lacks brand recognition here and sells on price, so you'll mostly not see their better stuff.

SGW: How better to describe these than with a quote from their own website? "SGW has a meaning of Samick Guitar Works. The brand name is shown up our strong will to be a representative item of Samick."

BREEDLOVE: American maker of high quality now reduced to carting stuff in from Asia. Still makes its best and most expensive models in the USA but very carefully forgets to mention that any guitar you can actually afford was made in China. FOR: Probably much better than most Chinese stuff. AGAINST: But what isn't? SUM-UP: Not generally sold in this country.

D'ANGELICO: A grand old name which has nothing at all to do with the famous founder. John D'Angelico and two other luthiers hand made very high quality archtops between 1932 and 1964. Someone bought the defunct trademark in 1999 for application to the usual cheapish Asian imports. Some of the current D'Angelico electrics are said to be quite good, as are their made-in-Korea archtops, with the Chinese flattops less fancied.

ENYA: Another cheap brand from China.

EPIPHONE: Unlike Martin and Taylor, Gibson sells its cheaper guitars under a different brand name: Epiphone, which was once a great maker in its own right. These days, most Epiphones are made in Indonesia by Samick. They fall into three classes: the plywood body, solid top ones go for $900ish. For around $1500 you get an actual wood guitar: I've played two or three of those and they were OK but unmemorable. There are also made-in-the-USA Epiphone models out of the Gibson factory, costing around $4000 or so. (Why not just buy a Gibson?) FOR: the Samick-built ones are reasonably priced and there is a wide range of different types to choose from. AGAINST: Products of a huge company which don't seem to stand out in any particular way from those of a dozen other companies. SUM-UP: You could do worse than Epiphone, but if you are going to buy a Samick, why not just buy it from Samick?

FAITH: Pretends to be British. Made in Indonesia. Might be out of the gigantic Samick factory, which is not too bad a thing.

FENDER: Nearly as good at making acoustic guitars as I am at playing electric ones. FOR: Fairly cheap. AGAINST: Fairly nasty. SUM-UP: Don't.

GILMAN: No-one owns up to manufacturing these, though they are quite common. Probably an Australian wholesaler buys stuff from China and has the brand stamped on it. Cheap and nasty.

LAG: Made in France (really?) and uncommon here, though they are distributed. Cheaper models have laminated back and sides, higher-end models are mysteriously unspecified. (Draw your own conclusion.) Their main point of current difference is their electronics, which claim to offer the world's first "smart guitar". Essentially, this amounts to a speaker, an FX chip, and a smartphone app.

LUNA: If looking good matters more than sounding good ... well, I'm not convinced that Luna does either. Cheapish guitars made in Korea and China under contract to an American company, factory decorated with often outlandish paint and patterns on a variety of themes. Marginally more tasteful than Wicked Campers. Not common here. There are many better ways to spend $1000.

OVATION: Ovation guitars with their round plastic backs and (in those days) revolutionary pizeo pickups were the first really successful stage acoustics for amplification without feedback. I never liked them: they sound dreadful unamplified, and because they slippery-slide off your knee you can't play them sitting down. Ovation was eventually bought out by Fender, and run into the ground - which is normal: Fender habitually buys successful acoustic makers and screws them up. No-one knows why. As they usually do, Fender sold off what was left of the wreckage, and now the Ovation brand is back. A handful of expensive ones are made in the USA, but the vast bulk of present-day production comes from Korea, China, and Indonesia. Being prepared to forgive and forget past sins after all these years, I tried a couple recently. They were awful. FOR: Robust because they are mostly plastic. AGAINST: And sound like it. SUM-UP: Best used for cover photos on Neil Diamond albums.

SHEERAN: A brand made in Northern Ireland and owned by Lowden. Despite the illustrious Lowden heritage, these are short-scale mini guitars with solid tops on plywood bodies. At $1500 to $2500, the pricing is insane.

TANGLEWOOD: British company manufacturing cheap stuff in China. Apparently not bad at the price.

WASHBURN: Just a marketing name. The original Washburn started in the 1880s, making guitars in the USA under its own name and for other brands, and buying in other stock to rebrand for themselves. They folded in 1940. The current Washburn started in 1974 and has no connection at all, other than deliberately misleading lies about their "heritage" in the PR material. Modern Washburns were made under contract in Japan until about 1990 when they switched suppliers to Samick, in Korea at first, shifting over time to China and Indonesia. During the mid-to late 1990s, Washburn briefly tried re-entering the top end of the market with models made for them by two high-quality US makers, Tacoma and Bourgeois. Current Washburns are the usual rebadged Samicks. The same company which owns Washburn also owns a stack of other companies, including both Randall and Marshal. FOR: actually Samicks. AGAINST: actually Samicks. SUM-UP: wouldn't it be easier to just buy a Samick?

(This document will self-destruct in five seconds.)

stickyfiddle · May 2023

DrJazzTap said:

I set up a martin Smith and my partner said "still sounds like shite". They have heavily dyed fretboards and feel like they came out of a cracker.

Lol awarded purely for this line

I remember Stagg from the early days of my guitar journey (early 2000s). Utterly terrible by all accounts but cheaper than Squier & Tanglewood and just about good enough to not be completely pointless. Similar to Encore though iirc the Encore stuff was usually a little bit better

shufflebeat · May 2023

stickyfiddle said:

I remember Stagg…

I was expecting Stagg to crop up. A kid who came to stay with us brought one with him and was keen to learn a few bits. I took the precaution of hiding his guitar and providing him with one of mine because I considered the Stagg to be both health hazard and an inspiration black hole.

bertie · May 2023

quite a few of the "store own brand" ones, and a make called "Johnny Brook" (not to be confused)

90s Fenders

Whistler · May 2023

shufflebeat said:
I was expecting Stagg to crop up.

For me, Stagg, like Fender, makes both good and naff stuff. My Stagg fretless bass is awesome (edit: apart from the weedy pickups) and drum stands are as good as the best I own (DW). I have no experience of Stagg acoustic guitars and so I do not doubt those of you that say they are terrible. I would stand to Stagg's defence on the good Stagg stuff I have.

lincolnblue · May 2023

I had a Westfield electro-acoustic new in 1999. Sold it about 10 years ago but it was actually a fairly decent guitar. Nothing ground-breaking but not half bad

Strangefan · May 2023

Tannin said:

Random notes excerpted from my guitar brands file about some bad and as few not-so-bad makers.

(Written for Oz-based buyers, read at your own risk.)

ASHTON: Common, ultra-cheap. You see them in shop windows curling up in the sun like last week's lettuce. FOR: Price. AGAINST: everything else. SUM-UP: Firewood.

TIMBERIDGE: importer's brand name for stuff it brings in from China.

ARTIST: A different Australian importer's brand name for cheap stuff it brings in from China. Only sold on-line, which cuts out the middleman, and stops anyone trying it out before parting with the money. FOR: cheap. AGAINST: cheap. SUM-UP: cheap.

TASMAN: Coming to you from a Secret Location. The beautifully produced literature tells you all about Australia, and Australian history, and skilled hand crafting, and only the very, very best. Worldwide, only a select half-dozen other brands are able to produce marketing bullshit of such a high and consistent standard. Tasman guitars are actually made in a sweatshop somewhere cheap and undisclosed, mostly out of plywood.

CORT: South Korean company, manufacturing in Korea, China, and Indonesia. Possibly the biggest guitar manufacturer in the world as it makes a heap of other-brand instruments under contract as well as its own-brand ones.

SAMICK: South Korean company, mostly manufacturing in Indonesia. Another giant of the industry, making cheap-to-medium guitars under their own name and for all sorts of brands, including Washburn, Honer, and Epiphone. Like Cort, Samick lacks brand recognition here and sells on price, so you'll mostly not see their better stuff.

SGW: How better to describe these than with a quote from their own website? "SGW has a meaning of Samick Guitar Works. The brand name is shown up our strong will to be a representative item of Samick."

BREEDLOVE: American maker of high quality now reduced to carting stuff in from Asia. Still makes its best and most expensive models in the USA but very carefully forgets to mention that any guitar you can actually afford was made in China. FOR: Probably much better than most Chinese stuff. AGAINST: But what isn't? SUM-UP: Not generally sold in this country.

D'ANGELICO: A grand old name which has nothing at all to do with the famous founder. John D'Angelico and two other luthiers hand made very high quality archtops between 1932 and 1964. Someone bought the defunct trademark in 1999 for application to the usual cheapish Asian imports. Some of the current D'Angelico electrics are said to be quite good, as are their made-in-Korea archtops, with the Chinese flattops less fancied.

ENYA: Another cheap brand from China.

Hmmmmm So what this says to me is, if it's not made in the western world it's rubbish? Because that's not the case these days, half the brands you have mention are pretty outstanding for the price point.

guitarjack66 · May 2023

I have reasonably good experiences of Fender acoustics. Obviously I buy cheaper, but with a good set up they are fine guitars. Probably not so good for gigging but fine for home use.

DrJazzTap · May 2023

Thanks guys, I'm trying to source guitars at the moment. I've seen a few martin smiths for sale locally for as cheap as £15. I'd rather try and make a guitar out of a pizza box.

Incidentally the lindo store is based about 2 miles away from me. I keep meaning to send them an email see if i can source factory seconds (they sell them through ebay)

@tannin thanks for all of that info. Much appreciated

LastMantra · May 2023

shufflebeat said:

stickyfiddle said:

I remember Stagg…

I was expecting Stagg to crop up. A kid who came to stay with us brought one with him and was keen to learn a few bits. I took the precaution of hiding his guitar and providing him with one of mine because I considered the Stagg to be both health hazard and an inspiration black hole.

My dad has a Stagg mandolin which he seems to like. He's not a gear head though.
And my Gibson came in a stagg padded gig bag which seems fine plus cheap enough to not worry about too much.
So they maybe have a place, somewhere.

BillDL · May 2023

Do not overlook an Artist guitar if you see it in a charity shop with it's stick-on (easy to pick/polish off) metallic silver logo. I'm not quite so sure about their acoustic guitars as I am about their electric ones, given that I have only bought two of their electro-acoustics in the past, but I was pleasantly surprised by the quality vs price of those examples. One was an OM solid cedar top of pretty good quality, fit and finish, and the other a B-Stock 3/4 sized solid spruce top guitar that sounds great for what it is. The UK warehouse distributor doesn't now seem to stock the better of the solid wood and solid top acoustic guitars that they were selling a couple of years back, and it's now just "starter packs" they sell. Compare the Australian stock with the UK stock.

Tannin · May 2023

Strangefan said:

Hmmmmm So what this says to me is, if it's not made in the western world it's rubbish? Because that's not the case these days, half the brands you have mention are pretty outstanding for the price point.

Think about it a bit more carefully and you will realise that is entirely incorrect.

Think it through. Almost all really bad guitars are very cheap. All very cheap guitars are made in places outside the Western World. It necessarily follows that any list of very bad guitars is going to consist pretty much entirely of guitars made outside the West. That's just economics. When (say) France or Canada has a lower wage rate and poorer industrial safety laws than (say) China or Ghana, the cheap production will move to France or Canada.

Now look at the list more carefully and you will also note that there are numerous manufacturers based in Third World countries which are not included. Why not? Because their products are of too high a standard to qualify. You will also notice a couple of Far Eastern majors which - if you trouble to read all the entries - are accorded significant respect. Both Korean in origin they now manufacture largely in China and Indonesia. I would not buy or wholeheartedly their products, granted, but that is for ethical reasons, not on quality grounds.

DrJazzTap · May 2023

lincolnblue said:

I had a Westfield electro-acoustic new in 1999. Sold it about 10 years ago but it was actually a fairly decent guitar. Nothing ground-breaking but not half bad

The Westfield dreadnought I set up was a lovely guitar. Somebody had fully tightened the truss rod so it was buzzing like crazy. Once i gave it some relief, it sounded really good.

flying_pie · May 2023

I recall playing a Harley Benton acoustic well over 10 years ago. It was the worst guitar I've ever played. The build, setup and intonation was so bad it was impossible to play anything other than a single note in tune

ICBM · May 2023

I honestly think there are very few truly terrible guitar brands, certainly from the last 40 years. I'll defend Fender in particular from being singled out above - yes, they've made (or more accurately branded) some pretty cheap and generic bottom-end acoustics - but they're no worse than the cheapest Yamahas, who seem to get a pass for anything with their name on it for some reason, and certainly than the worst Epiphones. Some of their better ones are actually quite nice.

But there was a range of cheap guitars that a shop I worked for bought in - branded Concerto, they were irredeemably shit. Rough as a barn door woodwork, uneven fretting with sharp ends, tinplate machineheads, nuts and saddles made of plastic cheese... the shop owner wanted me to set them up and make them better, but it was obviously just impossible (and I like fixing up things like 70s Satellite electrics!). I suggested that burning them all was the only way to get any value from them, which did not go down well.

DrJazzTap · May 2023

@ICBM yeah I was a tad surprised to see fender get name checked.
I've got a crest by columbus dreadnought at the moment. I cleaned it up, polished the frets and then went to restring it. I got to the low E and the machine head disintegrated in my hand. The machine heads are plastic and coated with a thin shiny metal film to make them look like solid metal.
So I bored out the holes fitted some cheap after market tuners, went to tune it up and then the bridge starts to lifts off the body.
I'm grabbing some c clamps and ill just glue it down some more.
I did an encore yesterday which has a bowed top. The truss rod had no tension in it. So the strings had nothing to resist against. Some bright spark has glued and screwed that bridge down though.
I just need to shave a few mm off of the saddle to lower the action at the 12th fret. All fun!!

Devil#20 · May 2023

Tannin said:

Now look at the list more carefully and you will also note that there are numerous manufacturers based in Third World countries which are not included. Why not? Because their products are of too high a standard to qualify. You will also notice a couple of Far Eastern majors which - if you trouble to read all the entries - are accorded significant respect. Both Korean in origin they now manufacture largely in China and Indonesia. I would not buy or wholeheartedly their products, granted, but that is for ethical reasons, not on quality grounds.

Are you referring to Eastman here? Excellent hand made quality guitars but they do seem to be able to source a lot of decent wood rather than use the sustainable alternatives for things like fingerboards. Are they circumventing the rules/laws. Made in Beijing so likely they decide what's legal and what isn't.

GoFish · May 2023

I personally will not have anything made by Stagg in the house. This is just because of my bad luck though. I found their peripherals lacking some years ago. The actual instruments can be of a higher standard, as some here will attest. I've seen enough dodgy Fender gear to be wary, but I've also come across some passable models here and there. With some third parties being pretty good nowadays, I'd treat both these brands on a case by case basis.

Surprised by Ashton - I've no experience but thought they were pretty much the Hobgoblin house brand. That didn't tingle my spidey-sense.

Vinny · May 2023

I teach 12 year olds guitar after school, so have seen all sorts.
I’ll ignore nylon string guitars as they’re too numerous. In my experience, Stagg and Concerto have probably been the worst, and more likely to discourage beginners. Cort and Tanglewood are among the most consistently good in the budget end.
As regards Asian made guitars, the original Chinese Guilds (the two digit GAD models) were very good.

Whistler · May 2023

DrJazzTap said:

@ICBM yeah I was a tad surprised to see fender get name checked.

It might be the quality of Fender acoustics being discussed recently acted as a precursor to this topic. See: Fender acoustic.

shufflebeat · May 2023

Whistler said:

shufflebeat said:
I was expecting Stagg to crop up.

For me, Stagg, like Fender, makes both good and naff stuff.

LastMantra said:

So they maybe have a place, somewhere.

To be fair, I have a Stagg LDC mic in a box somewhere which has earned the right to stay as it’s one of only two LDCs I have with an omni setting, which can be handy.

dazzer22 · May 2023

ICBM said:

I honestly think there are very few truly terrible guitar brands, certainly from the last 40 years. I'll defend Fender in particular from being singled out above - yes, they've made (or more accurately branded) some pretty cheap and generic bottom-end acoustics - but they're no worse than the cheapest Yamahas, who seem to get a pass for anything with their name on it for some reason, and certainly than the worst Epiphones. Some of their better ones are actually quite nice.

But there was a range of cheap guitars that a shop I worked for bought in - branded Concerto, they were irredeemably shit. Rough as a barn door woodwork, uneven fretting with sharp ends, tinplate machineheads, nuts and saddles made of plastic cheese... the shop owner wanted me to set them up and make them better, but it was obviously just impossible (and I like fixing up things like 70s Satellite electrics!). I suggested that burning them all was the only way to get any value from them, which did not go down well.

I think fender are less well know in the acoustic world and they don't make them in Mexico or USA , so China only and i don't have a problem with guitars being made in China for the price , Still any guitar made in China needs to be checked, I was going to get a fender in shop and noticed some of the frets had small gaps, still played well but put me off.

Tannin · May 2023

GoFish said:

Surprised by Ashton - I've no experience but thought they were pretty much the Hobgoblin house brand. That didn't tingle my spidey-sense.

I think - and I'm only guessing so take the thought for what it's worth - that Ashton is just an Australian brand name applied to no-name cheapest-possible guitars brought in by an importer. "Ashton" here in Oz and "Ashton" in the UK could be completely different.

Here they are very cheap and very bad. You see them in shop windows as "guitar starter kits" for $150 (say about 80 quid) bundled with a flimsy soft plastic case, a cheap tuner, and a plectrum. Probably the most expensive component is the strings

Tannin · May 2023

Devil#20 said:

Tannin said:

Now look at the list more carefully and you will also note that there are numerous manufacturers based in Third World countries which are not included. Why not? Because their products are of too high a standard to qualify. You will also notice a couple of Far Eastern majors which - if you trouble to read all the entries - are accorded significant respect. Both Korean in origin they now manufacture largely in China and Indonesia. I would not buy or wholeheartedly their products, granted, but that is for ethical reasons, not on quality grounds.

Are you referring to Eastman here? Excellent hand made quality guitars but they do seem to be able to source a lot of decent wood rather than use the sustainable alternatives for things like fingerboards. Are they circumventing the rules/laws. Made in Beijing so likely they decide what's legal and what isn't.

One among several, @Devil#20 I won't go near them because I flat refuse to buy wooden products made in China or Indonesia. China is by far the world's worst buyer of illegally logged timber and responsible for more environmental destruction in Africa, the Pacific Islands, and many other places than any 5 other countries put together. (This is not hearsay or suspicion: Interpol have published official figures: China is the worst by far.) Indonesia belongs in the same category in its own way: the rape of Indonesia's forests and the wholesale destruction of them to produce (a) illegal timber, and then (b) palm oil is enough to break your heart.

It is a shame, as I'd very happily buy some Eastman products if only they would make them from verifiably responsible timbers. An acoustic archtop, just for one example - hardly anyone else makes them.

Alongside Eastman, I also didn't mention Sigma (a German importer of Chinese guitars, they seem to have pretty good QC), Maestro (a well-respected Singaporean boutique maker of fine guitars which tries very hard to pretend that their factory isn't actually in China - pity, otherwise I'd like one), Martin and Taylor (which both manufacture lower-end models in Mexico - very much a 3rd World country and getting more so every year), Guild (imported from China except for the high-end ones), PRS, Cordoba, Crafter, Saga/Regal/Blueridge, and doubtless a host of others I forgot about.

drofluf · May 2023

Tannin said:

GoFish said:

Surprised by Ashton - I've no experience but thought they were pretty much the Hobgoblin house brand. That didn't tingle my spidey-sense.

I think - and I'm only guessing so take the thought for what it's worth - that Ashton is just an Australian brand name applied to no-name cheapest-possible guitars brought in by an importer. "Ashton" here in Oz and "Ashton" in the UK could be completely different.

Here they are very cheap and very bad. You see them in shop windows as "guitar starter kits" for $150 (say about 80 quid) bundled with a flimsy soft plastic case, a cheap tuner, and a plectrum. Probably the most expensive component is the strings

@GoFish think you’re confusing Ashton with Ashbury which is the Hobgoblin house brand. I’ve had a couple of their instruments and was impressed with the quality. They offer great value for money in my opinion.

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