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UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45
Larrivee guitars are rubbish
Base theme by DesignModo & ported to Powered by Vanilla by Chris Ireland, modified by the "theFB" team.
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Wow some amazing guitars!
African mahogany is a term sometimes used to describe sapele, isn't it? Damn... I really love that tonewood.
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OK, I'm hyperventilating. It's a good guitar in its own way, different to anything else I own, and really comes into its own for blues (though I'm not much of a blues player), but in the end it's not for me.
My favourite top material is cedar - the opposite extreme - and I'm looking forward to the new baritone with a King Billy Pine top (said to be very like cedar). And having tried a variety of spruces - Englemann, European, Sitka, and Red - my favourite is good old fashioned Sitka. I don't think it got to be far and away the most popular spruce for guitars by accident.
Back to Red Spruce, I reckon I might like it better on a larger guitar, say a dreadnought or jumbo. Not convinced on this 00.
It is very rare to see anything lighter than Spanish Cypress used for back and sides (e.g., spruce) and equally rare to see anything much heavier than Rock Maple used for a top.
The raw numbers for average density, Janka hardness and modulus of elasticity are pretty meaningless to most people, especially as they are commonly provided in at least three different units that I am aware of (two metric and one imperial). For this reason I like to express them as percentages relative to some well-known timber, in this case Honduran Mahogany. From this we can see at a glance that (for example) Sipo is 8% heavier than mahogany, 31% harder, and 16% "stronger". (I'm using modulus of elasticity as a proxy for strength, which is only half-true.)
Format is density (hardness) "strength".
Spanish Cypress 0.91 (0.62) 0.52
As mentioned last time, these are average figures, mostly from the very useful on-line Wood Database. Real wood varies a lot, and some of the listed figures in the database (none of them included above) look rather weird and ought to be double-checked by someone with the appropriate expertise (i.e., not me). TWD's numbers for Red Spruce look strange and for a couple of the Australian timbers downright weird. (E.g., Spotted Gum softer than Blue Gum? Not a chance. Not even close, and it goes through drill bits the way a drunk at a bar goes through a bowl of salted nuts.)
Really, really rough approximation: timbers that are hard for their weight (e.g., Myrtle Beech, Sapele, Rock Maple) have crisp top ends. Timbers which are soft for their weight (Spanish Cypress, Queensland Maple, Honduran and Cuban Mahogany tend to have a more rounded, softer tone. (I have never played a Spanish Cypress guitar, nor a Cuban Mahogany one - I would be very interested to do so and see if they behave as I expect.)
The other was made by local Hobart luthier Paul Mineur.
"00" = "concert size" = various other terms for the same thing. An 808 is the same except deep-bodied like a dreadnought.
That Paul Mineur looks amazing. Glad to hear it's not just me re Adirondack. Saying that, I've only played that one and it was stunning, but maybe "too powerful" - TBD.
Re gloss/no gloss, I like the way a satin finish feels. Jean Larrivee has been quoted as saying he prefers the gloss sound as it makes it that touch more glassy (some may call it rich) and that satin gives a more woody tone. I agree with that 100%.
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In a similar vein I tried a rosewood Larrivee some months ago that I thought was "meh" but the same model popped up a short time ago and this one had a mojo.
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I'm sure some can hear a difference between Khaya and Honduran but I can't.
@Tannin I think Red Spruce works well for bluegrass style instruments, or players. I imagine playing with a bluegrass band, that extra bit of volume is a good thing.
One thing I am coming to appreciate now, more volume doesn't equal more tone!
I don't think your assumption for Spanish Cypress is valid though, well not for flamenco guitars. Cypress is the default choice for flamenco guitars and it's popular for producing bright and percussive tones. I'd never call it soft sounding. Some spruce/cypress flamencos are the Telecaster bridge pickup of the nylon string world.
I've spent a lot for upgrades for flamenco guitars but come to appreciate flamenco guitars made with cypress are preferable to ones made with Rosewood's.
An American luthier I exchange some messages with on a few forums said he was using some Australian Cypress on a flamenco guitar he was making and said it was special stuff.
I think the cypress family of woods are superb for nylon strings but they don't seem to be used much for steel strings.
For the most part, Australian native cypress timbers are used for fence posts.
No joke! One of the Calitris (the Australian cypress pines) species - I forget which one, there are 20-odd - is commonly grown in the inland state forests of northern new South Wales and southern Queensland and used for various building purposes, but mostly fence posts.
2016: nearly finished building my new fence at the Ballarat house (before I moved here to Tasmania). The rails and palings are treated pine. (Pinus radiata which is grown here in huge quantities but is originally from the west coast of Canada. It is by far the most common building timber here and also in New Zealand, in this case it is treated with medium-nasty stuff to stop it rotting, you don't have to do that for indoor use.) The posts are native cypress-pine from Queensland. It is a medium-weight timber, very fine grained, very strong in compression but rather brittle (which is why you don't use it for beams, only posts). It is a pretty timber which finishes beautifully and smells divine. It is a crying shame to use it for fence posts - but it doesn't rot and white ants won't touch it, so it is actually perfect for the job. It regrows readily and is more-or-less sustainable.
As a tonewood? This particular species would be hopeless for tops, and probably too brittle for backs or sides. It would probably have nice tone but by crikey you wouldn't want to drop the instrument! I shouldn't think it would bend well either. It's too soft for fretboards, and too brittle for necks.
But there are another dozen species scattered about the continent, and the family Calitris belongs to contains everything from hard-as-nails Yew to very soft things like Redwood.
On looking it up to refresh my memory, I see that the species I used is White Cypress-pine, the same one listed in the Wood Database as very hard!
I reckon what's going on here is that people are conflating two or three similar but different species, and also very likely using some grown in the semi-arid inland (where it would be very slow-growing and hard as iron) where the stuff we use for fence posts comes from relatively more fertile ground with (probably) three times as much rainfall, grows faster, and is harvested fairly young. (I'm not sure of the rotation they use. 30 years, maybe.)
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=345789&p=1&mpage=2&tmode=1&smode=1
Doesn't look remotely like my fenceposts though, I reckon it's a different species. In fact I suspect that it's a different genus altogether. There are lots of other cypresses grown here, Montery Cypress is particularly common.
Now the interesting question is which species is that guitar? The one normally harvested is White Cypress-pine (Callitris glaucophylla) and that second picture does look a lot more like it. I'm surprised it bends so well!
(For some time after building three different fences with it, I toyed with grandiose plans to use it for various inside-the-house projects - exposed beams and suchlike. Polished up and varnished or oiled, it would come up a treat. Sadly, we don't get it here in Tasmania (although there are local Calitris species here too, probably a bit small for use as timber). For some reason the local timberyards only stock treated pine posts. I could special-order it but the shipping across Bass Strait costs a packet.)
The bass IS more polite than sapele but not by a wide margin, and the mids are really lovely.
And I think the sound of the lacquered guitar actually is starting to grow.
I basically got a lend off a friend (to see if I'd want to buy) and I changed the strings last night to my usual D'addario XT's and this morning I have a completely different take on the guitar - I am actually really liking it.
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I make it a rule to never love or hate a set of strings until they have been on for 24 hours, so I'll revisit this view tomorrow night, but as things stand I'll be taking them off and putting something I like better on inside a day or two.They are not awful, they are perfectly competent strings, but they sound and feel just like EJ16s and I doubt that I will warm to them as they age. Might as well cut to the chase and just put something else on the guitar so that it doesn't annoy me.
(That's the thing with strings you don't like. Once you have made your mind up, the guitar in question just sits there and sits there because you don't really feel like playing it until you change the strings.)
(In defence of the XTs, this guitar (the spruce and Tiger Myrtle Mineur) is a fusspot about strings. Some guitars it really doesn't matter much what you put on them, others only go well with certain brands. On my cedar dred, the XTs would probably be fine.)
I haven't changed string types in a long time.... Again, I need to try these NewTone strings as they appear to be very popular. And Martin strings seem to be popular, too. Sorry you didn't like the D'addarios
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Way more bass than the OM and sounds truly great BUT the body depth is noticeably deeper than an OM. So I felt it was a bit more difficult to bring the guitar to the body when doing barres etc. So ... That body shape is off the list and I've learned that I don't like deep bodies. Massive shame as I do like the enhanced bass (though part of me thinks might not record quite as well, and the OM is a more compressed and punchy sound, which I like - shame I'm not keen on their OM scalloped guitars as would have been best compromise).
Initially I thought an admittedly amazing Santa Cruz was the best guitar in the shop but I I gave a random guy that plus the Larrivee to play and the Larrivee sounded better. Beat every guitar in the shop, sound-wise. Including the Martins and Taylor's.
Also of note... 12 fret with cutaway truly does help with access. I would consider an OO with cutaway but Larrivee charge $1500 for that option alone - no thanks. Shame as I love the growl and warmth that a 12 fret brings
Didn't really get on with the Alvarez brand.
The Yamaha transatlantic sounded great unplugged and played well.
Eastman parlour I tried was very tinny
Martin SC-13e had a neck like an electric and while initially sounded good (and it IS good), it didn't compare at all compared to the Larrivee in the sound department. I like the shape, cutaway and 13 fret join.
Collings dread did nothing for me.
Folk who didn't know I was there to try the Larrivee all came over to ask what brand it was and said it sounded great.
I will say that some OM's (Taylor all mahogany, for example) bass response was ok, I must check to see if the braces are scalloped or not (322ce iirc). Still sounded a bit thin overall but was actually not that bad.
The Santa Cruz (which btw was £3800 used compared to £1300 used for the Larrivee) had a real hi-fi thing going on. I was in love when I played it but when standing aside as a listener, with somebody else playing, strangely it didn't do it for me. Too much of the hi-fi thing doesn't suit all styles and I preferred the natural woody sound of the Larrivee.
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Btw I really want to try a Boucher....
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I'm currently selling my Furch Yellow G-CR as tone wise it doesn't compare.
I had been looking to buy a Martin 000-18 or 000-28 and Glenn did not have either. I would like to A/B the Larrivee against those two Martin's to compare the tone as ideally i'd prefer short scale. Having said that, if the one I have is anything to go by, then Larrivee make great guitars.
What are the frets etc like? Interesting it was one of the best.
I was going to buy this (but I actually bought a new one from guitar village with a discount - still more expensive than Glenn's one). It's similar to my OM-02 but mahogany does sound more syrupy than sapele - and the lacquer means can do the natural reverb thing without satin guitar making noise.
Did you try his Martin 0-18 12 fret?
Martin OO/OOO18 is nice but the only one that came close to my old OM-02 was a custom shop OOO18 with adi top (even then, those tops are very responsive - I think I might prefer sitka - need more time with them to truly decide). FYI I think Martins probably sound better strummed but for fingerstyle I think the Larrivee shines.
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I play mainly fingerstyle and much prefer a 1 & 3/4 nut width so some of the guitars he had I didn't play for long as the necks were too narrow. Still, I was there for over 2 hours and kept coming back to the Larrivee and LG1. Even after 2 weeks i'm still really impressed.
You bought an OM-05? How are you finding it? What's the wood grain like on the top? I've been playing for over 15 years and this is my first mahogany guitar.
The Martin 0-18 12 fret was sold when I visited. He had a 000-15sm that wasn't on his site that I liked. I'd still like to try a 000-18 or 000-28 but I think this Larry may be a keeper
What's the guy like as I sent an email via his site bot got no reply?
Does he give you it to try or once sale is done, it's done?
I also prefer 1 & 3/4 nut.
Why the LG1 over the Larrivee?
Yeah I bought this but didn't do a thread as it's embarrassing how many I have now lol...
https://guitarvillage.co.uk/product/larrivee-om-05-select-series-natural
Wood is great, they change their lacquer over the years so not sure how this compares in that department.
Treble side is ever so slightly high so will shave the saddle a smidgeon but otherwise all is great.
Even the helmholtz resonance which appears less on this.
It's similar to my OM-02 sapele but more of a syrupy tone and the lacquer is nice in that there's no sound when moving it about. I can't decide if the bass on it is deeper than my OM_02 but it's never going to have deeper bass than a (for example) scalloped or rosewood guitar. I prefer non-scalloped Larrivee, more balanced and more of a brilliant sound. Mahogany-type woods are my preference.
BTW the reason I buy when I see a good deal on Larrivee? Their prices have gone and appear to continuing to go up...
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