Did/does anyone find the "self-taught"/online route more productive than private lessons?

Lestratcaster · May 2023

Teetonetal said:

In my opinion, a song based approach for learning skills, technique and theory is not really the most efficient - For example, I would prefer targeted exercises to develop the technique, some theory to enable me to use it and then maybe a song to put help put it into context and practice.

I don't agree. I've used a song approach method for years and its worked with alot of learners as its puts into application the skills needed to play something musical - chord shapes, changing between them, rhythm, timing, and interaction between the guitar and other instruments. Plus they get bored of an exercise pretty quickly if they can't play anything they know.

Most of the pop artist guitarists who play live have the skill to play like machines to a click, very repetitive patterns for about 3 minutes without making a mistake. This, is in fact harder than shredding or some widdly blues solo you're free to improvise. You'd be amazed at how many first timers I see for lessons who can't actually settle down and play a disciplined pattern for 1 minute straight let alone 3.

Of course there are a couple of learners who I throw in some technical exercises on the side so it becomes a hybrid thing so a bit of both.

thing · May 2023

guitarjack66 said:

Timcito said:

I've always been under the impression that most steel-string guitar players are and have always been self-taught. When I was growing up in the 70s, I learned the trumpet 'officially' - lessons, school orchestra, etc. and the guitar unofficially, forming a part of my alternative culture persona The guitar was a kind of 'rogue-instrument-and-proud-of-it.' It was what some of us did in despite of our parents and teachers. I remember once the headmaster having a go at us 6th formers who were due to take our A-levels that year. He called us lazy s.o.bs. (though he obviously didn't use that expression!) and said we sat around at home plucking our banjos all day. 'Banjos' was his way of denigrating the guitar, suggesting it was silly and unworthy.

I guess times have changed now, but I wonder how far the tradition has lived on - that while we take lessons with the piano, the clarinet, or the trombone, we learn the guitar in our rooms using whatever tools we can find to help us on our way.

I always felt schools were biased towards classical instruments but I don't exactly know why. Maybe it's because of it's structure and how schools work to structures and parameters themselves?

Because it gets the most amount of kids into a band structure. You can put quite an effective school orchestra together with kids with very basic skills on their instruments. The kids (and parents) love it.

Cranky · May 2023

Get a different teacher. Too many guitar teachers phone it in, they don’t listen, don’t assess and don’t plan based on assessment.

I think a good private teacher once per month or every other week is a good balance with what you’ll be able to supplement by YT content and self-teaching.

ms21 · May 2023

Thanks everyone for your replies. Looks like I’m in the market for a new teacher. I took a couple more lessons with him and hashed out my concerns this week.

If anyone has any recommendations of people they can vouch for. That’ll help with developing me and my practice, I’d really appreciate that. Will definitely take seals of approval from the community on this website seriously.

For face to face, I’m happy to travel anywhere in the London area. But also open to doing Zoom lessons for the right teacher.

Lestratcaster · May 2023

Don't know where you're based but I teach online (have been doing so for 3 years now). Can provide references if required.

Rocker · May 2023

Playing guitar for four hours each day is your problem my friend. You need to give your brain a rest. You need time to listen to music, your favourite music and try to include music from way off your usual listening patterns.

Technique will only get you so far. Nobody wants to listen to displays of technical excellence. Music comes from within you, hence my suggestion to listen to music you would not usually listen to. A three note run might link two chords. It might be ‘simple’ to execute but can sound gorgeous. And really wow your listeners.

But my most important bit of advice is to (somehow) get playing with other musicians. Even if the end result is playing for your own enjoyment, you gain as you learn to listen to others playing. You learn about dynamics, timing and how to play music. Rather than playing guitar. Play music and you will get what it is that you are searching for from your guitar.

Greatape · May 2023

Just to reiterate, elaborate on and amplify things already said, as you do seem to want to be the best you can:

Timing. Whoever said it was 90% was on the money. Metronome practice every day to regularly reinforce the sense of the pulse in your head. For a humbling experience, try semibreves at say 80bpm and see how accurately you can do it. Then drop beats 2,3 & 4 from the click and see how well you do....
This is not so you can play metronomically, but to constantly reinforce that sense of time, so you can confidently and accurately play where you choose in relation to the beat.

Knowing note names: the easiest way is to learn to read. If you're only two years in, start now. It opens up worlds to you.

Playing with others: definitely teaches you a lot.

Harmony: learn how chords are built. This plus knowing note names is the key to the fretboard, not endlessly milling up and down scales at a faster and faster pace.

I'd also agree that tackling pieces is a good way to go.

One last note: not saying this teacher was right for you, but it's worth considering that you might not know what you don't know. Sometimes, the teacher is right.

Good luck

guitarjack66 · June 2023

thing said:

guitarjack66 said:

Timcito said:

I've always been under the impression that most steel-string guitar players are and have always been self-taught. When I was growing up in the 70s, I learned the trumpet 'officially' - lessons, school orchestra, etc. and the guitar unofficially, forming a part of my alternative culture persona The guitar was a kind of 'rogue-instrument-and-proud-of-it.' It was what some of us did in despite of our parents and teachers. I remember once the headmaster having a go at us 6th formers who were due to take our A-levels that year. He called us lazy s.o.bs. (though he obviously didn't use that expression!) and said we sat around at home plucking our banjos all day. 'Banjos' was his way of denigrating the guitar, suggesting it was silly and unworthy.

I guess times have changed now, but I wonder how far the tradition has lived on - that while we take lessons with the piano, the clarinet, or the trombone, we learn the guitar in our rooms using whatever tools we can find to help us on our way.

I always felt schools were biased towards classical instruments but I don't exactly know why. Maybe it's because of it's structure and how schools work to structures and parameters themselves?

Because it gets the most amount of kids into a band structure. You can put quite an effective school orchestra together with kids with very basic skills on their instruments. The kids (and parents) love it.

Ok,I get that now. I will say though that at my school none of the 'cool' kids went anywhere near the school band and other kids would actively avoid listening to it if possible. This maybe why I mentioned the classical side as very few kids other than those from more financially able cared for the music played or the instruments used for it. A cacophony of brass instruments needs a good level of playing to produce a pleasant sound. The school orchestra rarely made that sound.

Rio · June 2023

ms21 said:

Just to update this thread, following the last (my second) lesson, I showed the teacher that I was learning the notes on the fretboard. The way I did this was to simply go through each individual string and then play all the notes from that string up until the 12th fret. So for example open E and then every other E, so 12th fret low E string, 7th fret A string, 2nd fret D string etc etc. For notes EADGB(E), before also adding C and F.

He told me to scrap this and use his method of a pattern which is as follows, pick a note, ie the G note on the 3rd fret low E string. Then to go 2 across 2 down, 3 across 2 down, and 2 across 3 up to locate all the other G strings on the fretboard. This seems to work to an extent, but the problem I’m having with this is that let’s say I start on the 7th fret low E string with a B note, and follow this pattern to locate all the other Bs, the pattern works from the 7th fret until the end of the board and back up to the 7th fret, but then if I want to locate the Bs prior to the 7th fret, all of a sudden the pattern doesn’t work anymore. If that makes any sense at all!?

I’ve sent him a message asking him about this but does the above sound right?

I've had nothing but bad luck with live teachers, so my attitude might be a bit negative.

The pattern thing will work (you can mirror it to learn the downward pattern), but he didn't give you any context for what is essentially a rote method of learning. (OK, you know where the G's are...now what do you do with them and how do they fit with...uh...say...chords?) And telling you to scrap a method you were using and use his method is a clear warning that he's not open to different visualizations of the fingerboard, which are as personalized (IMHO) as fingerprints.

Suggestion: go in with something from one of the bands he's badmouthed, and ask him for help with it. His reaction should give you the answer you're looking for.

Rio

Jfingers · June 2023

I'm self taught, I started when I was 12. I'm almost 57 now. People regularly compliment me on my acoustic playing.

I like a player called Tom Heyman, he's been playing for years too. He's recently had lessons, never too late to get info from a good teacher.

PeterMoon · September 2023

I've tried both. I started with a tutor ,who was a jazz guy and my theory is great. Life intervened and six years later I am using Justin Guitar. on both app an web. I quickly realised how poor my timing and rhythmic feel was.

Even after a month, I'm a much better player. Not all things are equal-I've retired now and can easily find an hour per day. However,the course suits me and I am really enjoying how the learning is structured.

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Did/does anyone find the "self-taught"/online route more productive than private lessons?

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