Acoustic pickup recommendation

Devil#20 · April 2023

What's the best undersaddle acoustic pickup options with discrete controls inside the sound hole. The only one's I'm aware of are the L R Baggs ones.

Devil#20 · April 2023

Nobody fitted one or had one fitted then?

ICBM · April 2023

Baggs or Fishman both do them.

Beyond that I can't really help, as I've removed them from my guitars and use passive Fishman USTs with an outboard preamp.

Soupman · April 2023

I have 2 soundhole pickups - a Baggs M1a and a Fishman rare earth. Both are good but I feel the Baggs edges it.
That doesn't help your undersaddle question of course, but Baggs do have a good name.

shufflebeat · April 2023

I’ve had a couple of Baggs Elements fitted recently. Better than expected (hence, two of them).

the control is really just a volume control whereas the Fishman Matrix Infinity I also have has volume and tone (ranges between middle-y and scooped) which I found quite useful in a “set and forget” kinda way.

bluecat · April 2023

One I would not recommend is the shadow 4 ,that's what I have in my Tanglewood. It sounds a lot better miced.

ICBM · April 2023

bluecat said:

One I would not recommend is the shadow 4 ,that's what I have in my Tanglewood. It sounds a lot better miced.

That’s probably true of almost all electro-acoustics, but there’s a special place in hell for Shadow systems... their scratchy, harsh, completely unnatural sound would be a fair description of eternal torture.

JCA2550 · April 2023

I'm very happy with the K&K pure mini and Ultrapure preamp mounted inside the sound hole of my Atkin. It sounds very good indeed.

This one

https://www.kksound.com/ultrapure

WindmillGuitars · April 2023

+1 for K&K UltraPure
We have them in stock

Stratavarious · April 2023

Got a K&K transducers in mine. External DI box/controls though.

Incredibly natural sound vs piezo/under saddle. Would not get anything else.

thomasross20 · April 2023

K&K... Is it good enough on its own or recommend internal mic?

ICBM · April 2023

thomasross20 said:

K&K... Is it good enough on its own or recommend internal mic?

I prefer the K&K to any internal mic I've ever heard.

External mics are great. Internal ones just cause feedback problems and sound odd, because they're picking up a sound you never normally hear from outside the guitar.

thomasross20 · April 2023

Thanks @ICBM - I have a K&K in my OM-02 and always wondered about getting a mic in there but sounds like just causes issues.

I like the K&K - simple, unobtrusive, no batteries required

BigLicks67 · April 2023

I had a LR Baggs Element VTC in my J45 and for a piezo pickup I thought it was okay. However, I dislike intensely piezo pickups and took it out. I have a K&K in my other guitar and it was definitely superior for fingerpicking type stuff. I would have put a K&K in the J45 but it has a pilot hole in the bridge plate, so I opted for a LR Baggs M1a which is okay if you work on the eq on your amp. The M1 is probably good for work in a band when dealing with higher volumes also.

DavidR · April 2023

NAMM 2023: LR Baggs promises “game-changing” performance and non-invasive installation from its new HiFi acoustic guitar pickup system | MusicRadar

ElectricXII · April 2023

BigLicks67 said:

I had a LR Baggs Element VTC in my J45 and for a piezo pickup I thought it was okay. However, I dislike intensely piezo pickups and took it out. I have a K&K in my other guitar and it was definitely superior for fingerpicking type stuff. I would have put a K&K in the J45 but it has a pilot hole in the bridge plate, so I opted for a LR Baggs M1a which is okay if you work on the eq on your amp. The M1 is probably good for work in a band when dealing with higher volumes also.

I've got that one in my J-35. I run it straight to the PA through a passive DI box and it's okay, as you say, but it sounds like a piezo, with all that that entails. I always need a sound hole feedback suppressor though, which is a pain, as I can't access the volume control.

ICBM · April 2023

DavidR said:

NAMM 2023: LR Baggs promises “game-changing” performance and non-invasive installation from its new HiFi acoustic guitar pickup system | MusicRadar

I was interested until I saw the onboard control box. Although even the internal battery is probably a step too far...

tomajoha · April 2023

ICBM said:

DavidR said:

NAMM 2023: LR Baggs promises “game-changing” performance and non-invasive installation from its new HiFi acoustic guitar pickup system | MusicRadar

I was interested until I saw the onboard control box. Although even the internal battery is probably a step too far...

I presume you favour an USP and outboard to reduce the overall impact of all the hardware on the unamplified sound? Do you find a USP negatively impacts the sound at all?

I’m another one weighing up an Anthem vs a USP/IR Box. I was excited by the new Hifi pickup but having listened to comparison reviews online the Anthem sounded better to my ear. Although I have to admit the unamplified sound of the anthem vs Hifi was far better for the less intrusive hifi .

ICBM · April 2023

tomajoha said:

I presume you favour an USP and outboard to reduce the overall impact of all the hardware on the unamplified sound? Do you find a USP negatively impacts the sound at all?

No, just to simplify what's in the guitar to the absolute minimum for reliability and unintrusiveness. I don't want batteries and controls - there is no need, it's better done with an outboard preamp/processor.

I don't find a UST affects the acoustic sound - although it's possible some of the softer 'rubbery' type ones might. The Fishmans I use are very stiff and are basically the same as a solid shim.

tomajoha · April 2023

ICBM said:

tomajoha said:

I presume you favour an USP and outboard to reduce the overall impact of all the hardware on the unamplified sound? Do you find a USP negatively impacts the sound at all?

No, just to simplify what's in the guitar to the absolute minimum for reliability and unintrusiveness. I don't want batteries and controls - there is no need, it's better done with an outboard preamp/processor.

I don't find a UST affects the acoustic sound - although it's possible some of the softer 'rubbery' type ones might. The Fishmans I use are very stiff and are basically the same as a solid shim.

Is that the fishman AG UST?

ICBM · April 2023

tomajoha said:

Is that the fishman AG UST?

Yes. It’s old technology now - and does sound very much so when directly amplified - but works perfectly with outboard modelling units like the Fishman Aura, Boss AD-8 etc which are intended to work with a passive UST.

thomasw88 · April 2023

LR Baggs M80 is great. been using one for years and it gives the best sound I've had in a band situation.

crunchman · April 2023

I'd agree with @ICBM about a simple passive undersaddle and an outboard box.

You don't even have to have a specialist outboard box any more. I know I can load external IRs of acoustic guitars onto my Quad Cortex. I'm pretty sure that Helix and all the others allow you to do the same. The Aura and the other boxes are essentially just doing the same thing as an IR.

ICBM · April 2023

crunchman said:

You don't even have to have a specialist outboard box any more. I know I can load external IRs of acoustic guitars onto my Quad Cortex. I'm pretty sure that Helix and all the others allow you to do the same. The Aura and the other boxes are essentially just doing the same thing as an IR.

I do find it slightly ironic that the most natural (in my opinion) amplified sound you can get from an acoustic guitar is the *least* natural in terms of how it works - the most horrible-sounding pickup type driving a total ‘virtual’ sound, basically - it has next to nothing to do with the actual sound of the guitar itself. And yet that’s what it sounds like to me.

Yes, the Aura is basically just a hardware IR box.

maltingsaudio · April 2023

ICBM said:

crunchman said:

You don't even have to have a specialist outboard box any more. I know I can load external IRs of acoustic guitars onto my Quad Cortex. I'm pretty sure that Helix and all the others allow you to do the same. The Aura and the other boxes are essentially just doing the same thing as an IR.

I do find it slightly ironic that the most natural (in my opinion) amplified sound you can get from an acoustic guitar is the *least* natural in terms of how it works - the most horrible-sounding pickup type driving a total ‘virtual’ sound, basically - it has next to nothing to do with the actual sound of the guitar itself. And yet that’s what it sounds like to me.

Yes, the Aura is basically just a hardware IR box.

I remember a conversation I had with the late Eric Roche , he said unplugged my arse!

FWIW the only pickup I use and would fit in any acoustic is the Headway snake

Jetfire · April 2023

I've got an LR Baggs anthem in my Faith Naked acoustic at the moment and I'll be honest, it doesn't float my boat at all. It's only still in due to the cost of having it installed in the first place Vs having something else to put in. I've also watched a solo artist with one and I wasn't impressed at all. So much so, I'm thinking of getting a new guitar with a decent system in place already. You could say it's the Acoustic itself but I'm not sure it's just that.

The previous Shadow system was just vomit inducing so I'd never refit that ever.

ICBM · April 2023

Jetfire said:

I've got an LR Baggs anthem in my Faith Naked acoustic at the moment and I'll be honest, it doesn't float my boat at all. It's only still in due to the cost of having it installed in the first place Vs having something else to put in. I've also watched a solo artist with one and I wasn't impressed at all. So much so, I'm thinking of getting a new guitar with a decent system in place already. You could say it's the Acoustic itself but I'm not sure it's just that.

The previous Shadow system was just vomit inducing so I'd never refit that ever.

The way to solve this is to give up on the idea of getting the final sound out of the guitar itself. You don't want 'a decent system in place' because there is no such thing - and even if there is, it won't be in ten years.

The solution is the bare minimum pickup which produces a string signal, and *do all the rest with outboard modelling*.

Once you do that, and fit a simple passive piezo undersaddle transducer and an endpin jack, that's it - for ever. The guitar never needs to be altered again. The only thing you need to do after that is change the outboard modelling technology as it improves.

TheBigDipper · May 2023

I've got three guitars with K&K Pure Mini passive pickups fitted (no controls, no preamp on the instruments, no batteries). I plug into either a K&K XLR Preamp or a Fly Rig acoustic - either of them loads the pickups properly and gets a nice natural sound - but as has been previously said, any modeller or IR loader would also work and deliver decent results.

GramP · May 2023

A Trance Audio Amulet is about the best pup you can buy,,, and they are not stupidly expensive.... the Crafter DS2 platform is also very very good, dual source mic and UST.. both need batteries and both have soundhole controls

Jetfire · May 2023

ICBM said:

Jetfire said:

I've got an LR Baggs anthem in my Faith Naked acoustic at the moment and I'll be honest, it doesn't float my boat at all. It's only still in due to the cost of having it installed in the first place Vs having something else to put in. I've also watched a solo artist with one and I wasn't impressed at all. So much so, I'm thinking of getting a new guitar with a decent system in place already. You could say it's the Acoustic itself but I'm not sure it's just that.

The previous Shadow system was just vomit inducing so I'd never refit that ever.

The way to solve this is to give up on the idea of getting the final sound out of the guitar itself. You don't want 'a decent system in place' because there is no such thing - and even if there is, it won't be in ten years.

The solution is the bare minimum pickup which produces a string signal, and *do all the rest with outboard modelling*.

Once you do that, and fit a simple passive piezo undersaddle transducer and an endpin jack, that's it - for ever. The guitar never needs to be altered again. The only thing you need to do after that is change the outboard modelling technology as it improves.

Does this go back to the recommendation you have given before for the Zoom AC pedal? Or have we moved on since that?

ICBM · May 2023

Jetfire said:

Does this go back to the recommendation you have given before for the Zoom AC pedal? Or have we moved on since that?

The Zoom is actually pretty good, but the Fishman Aura Spectrum is probably the best-sounding overall. I found it quite fussy to set up through an unfamiliar PA though - it could sound either great or a bit odd - so I’m now using a Boss AD-8, which doesn’t sound quite as good even at its best, but is much less fussy and works well enough.

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Acoustic pickup recommendation

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