Mac Mini M2 base version

Timeline88 · April 2023

I've been looking around at the various threads concerning the Mac Mini M2 for running Logic Pro. The general consensus seems to be get as much RAM and storage as you can afford but a lot of those commenting appear to me to working in studios or working with large numbers of tracks, plugins and VSTs.

I'm replacing a 13" MB Pro Retina from 2014/15 which is due for renewal and cannot run the MacOS to run the latest versions of Logic and Garageband. Portability isn't a problem so I'm looking at the Mac Mini as an affordable option. I already have all of the accessories I need since switching to a home office during the pandemic.

To cut to the chase, will the base model Mac Mini M2 (8gb/256gb) be sufficient to run Logic Pro for a simple home studio setup? I'll largely be recording guitar and bass in via an interface and sharing projects with friends for demoing.I will likely use some simple plugins and maybe some software instruments but not vast numbers of tracks.

I work for a university, so I can probably swing an education discount, so if I was going to upgrade, would it be wiser to upgrade the SSD storage or the RAM for my purposes? My hunch was to up the SSD.

Cheers,
Joe

Philtre · April 2023

Given the choice between more RAM or more storage, get more RAM and use external storage which is much cheaper.

spark240 · April 2023

I think the opinion would be that yes the M2 will do the job easily, and yes a larger on board storage and Ram would be the preference , if budget is limited then maybe go for RAM as storage can be done with remotes as you suggest.

For comparison I'm using a Mac Mini M1 and its been fine to date, the bigger issue for me was connecting enough bits to it....I used a Caldigit Element 4 Hub

Timeline88 · April 2023

Great stuff, thanks for the input @Philtre and @spark240 ;

Bod · April 2023

I'd love a Mac Mini, but they're expensive enough without having to work around their deliberately engineered limitations. I know the reason why RAM isn't upgradable, but the upgrade to 16GB is just too expensive IMO.

The base model is quite affordable but, if you want to step beyond that, you have to pay through the nose and it's hard to justify that given what a better specified Windows PC would cost. I do agree that if you're already in the Apple ecosystem then you'd be better to spend money on extra RAM than SSD storage though.

Timeline88 · April 2023

Cheers @Bod. Another vote for RAM over SSD is helpful.

Macca_25387 · April 2023

Yes

monquixote · April 2023

I would get more RAM.

It's a very powerful machine in terms of processor and should last you many years, but the RAM will be what will almost certainly force an upgrade so investing in 16GB will almost certainly buy you some more years before needing to upgrade.

It will also buy you some quality of life. For example you might be able to run Logic OK, but may need to for example not have a browser open whereas with more RAM it might be an option.

spark240 · April 2023

Just to reiterate on the spec front...I often run my Base M1 mini with Studio One, a number of browser windows open, plus recording with OBS and You tube..no issues...its manly VST plugins that suck the juice ;-)

Danny1969 · April 2023

Audio tracks recording audio use almost no ram or processor power at all. Remember we were recording 32 tracks of audio on machines in the nineties that had a Pentium 233 processor and 32Mb of ram.

Professionals were using Protools mix cards with Motorola chips that had less processing power than a 486 chip.

The demands of video editing have increased a lot in the last 20 years ... HD, then 4K etc.

The demands for recording audio as a digital wav haven't ... it's still 24 / 44.4 or 48 really. That's about 50Mb a track

Plugins like EQ / dynamics generally don't use a lot of power. Reverbs and such can but these are typically used on an aux bus so not so much an issue.

VI's is the area where the more power and ram the better. However unless your are scoring for films it's probably not gonna be much of an issue either.
So it's a bit of a myth that music computers need to be insanely powerful. It certainly helps sell hardware along with OSX updates that won't work on older machines though.

monquixote · April 2023

Danny1969 said:

Audio tracks recording audio use almost no ram or processor power at all. Remember we were recording 32 tracks of audio on machines in the nineties that had a Pentium 233 processor and 32Mb of ram.

Professionals were using Protools mix cards with Motorola chips that had less processing power than a 486 chip.

The demands of video editing have increased a lot in the last 20 years ... HD, then 4K etc.

The demands for recording audio as a digital wav haven't ... it's still 24 / 44.4 or 48 really. That's about 50Mb a track

Plugins like EQ / dynamics generally don't use a lot of power. Reverbs and such can but these are typically used on an aux bus so not so much an issue.

VI's is the area where the more power and ram the better. However unless your are scoring for films it's probably not gonna be much of an issue either.
So it's a bit of a myth that music computers need to be insanely powerful. It certainly helps sell hardware along with OSX updates that won't work on older machines though.

I totally agree with this.

I've got a fairly mid tier laptop and I'm always amazed with how big and complex of an audio project with loads of plugins it can cope with.

Soft synths are another story. Just one instance of something like Vital or Pigments with a complex patch can get my machine stuttering unless the latency is set really high.

Timeline88 · April 2023

Thanks @Danny1969, that really helps frame it. I think my needs will be met by the base model, little bit of a risk from the point of view of future-proofing but I’m willing to accept it.

octatonic · April 2023

I don't disagree with what Danny and others have said but think about 2-3 years from now, how useful will that base machine be?
IMHO Apple are being shits selling those machines with such small internal drives.
It creates a false floor for pricing- 'look a Mac Mini for £649' when really a useful machine in the longer term needs a larger SSD and more RAM.

Read my comments here:
https://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/245937/help-needed-m1-imac-and-external-ssd-questions

I wouldn't be buying a Mac Mini with a 256 GB storage under any circumstances.
I sold a Mac Studio with 512GB internal to get one with a much larger internal drive.
You can use external storage but the workarounds you need to do once you fill up that tiny SSD are a pain in the butt.

I would suggest 1TB and 16GB RAM.
At a push 512GB and 16GB.

I get that people will disagree with me on this- that's ok.
I'm just thinking about typical use 2-3 years down the line.

Timeline88 · April 2023

Thanks @octatonic, I'd read your comments in the other thread and had thought about getting in touch with you directly. I'm only now looking at replacing my Macbook Pro from late 2014 which has 8GB DDR RAM and 256PCIe storage, so that's had a good run of nearly 8 years, is there a particular reason that you think a base model Mac Mini would be redundant in 2-3 years time? Again, I'm probably not going to be running rafts of plugins and virtual instruments here and I'm not running a professional studio.

stonevibe · April 2023

I wrote these, they might help

https://guitarbomb.com/2021/04/13/is-apples-m1-mac-mini-the-perfect-system-for-guitarists/

https://guitarbomb.com/2021/05/03/how-to-fine-tune-logic-pro-on-your-apple-mac/

I literally just returned a Mac mini M2 Pro because Apple has removed Core Drivers and Firewire support in latest bloatware OS. as wanted a second one for another project.

Though, I still have a 16" M1 Pro MacBook Pro

Currently running a base level M1 with 8GB RAM with no issues in Logic or Ableton.

octatonic · April 2023

Timeline88 said:

Thanks @octatonic, I'd read your comments in the other thread and had thought about getting in touch with you directly. I'm only now looking at replacing my Macbook Pro from late 2014 which has 8GB DDR RAM and 256PCIe storage, so that's had a good run of nearly 8 years, is there a particular reason that you think a base model Mac Mini would be redundant in 2-3 years time? Again, I'm probably not going to be running rafts of plugins and virtual instruments here and I'm not running a professional studio.

Not redundant, you just need to examine your own current use and try to forecast what you will need down the line.

There are some people who stick to their same methods, say you are just recording audio and mixing using fairly standard plugins. You don't own any sample libraries, use virtual instruments to any large degree and you don't mind archiving your data to external drives on a regular basis. The internal 256GB drive will likely be 'ok', but rather a low grade of 'ok'-ness.

If you are someone who really gets into recording, tracks loads of projects, installs a bunch of plugins, virtual instruments and expect the computer to keep pace... you will be in trouble.

Running a professional studio is somewhat separate from this.
There are loads of studios that are using computer from 2010 quite successfully because they have loads of outboard, maybe a large format console and mostly track acoustic instruments which are not particularly costly in terms of storage, CPU and RAM.

A single instance of U-He's DIVA plugin will bring those machines to their knees, but given they aren't using that plugin it doesn't matter.

So it all depends on what you want to be doing and what you think you might be doing.
I've outlined approaches to managing a machine in threads if you end up in a situation of being out of space in a machine that cannot be internally expanded. After that it is a matter of picking what suits you.

When I say 'I wouldn't be buying a Mac Mini with a 256 GB storage under any circumstances' I mean it literally- as in I wouldn't do that. You may decide to and that is ok, if you know what you might be getting into.

Stuckfast · April 2023

On the subject of RAM vs storage, I believe that macOS uses paging, which essentially means using drive space as RAM. So it's desirable to have a decent amount of both.

monquixote · April 2023

Stuckfast said:

On the subject of RAM vs storage, I believe that macOS uses paging, which essentially means using drive space as RAM. So it's desirable to have a decent amount of both.

All computers use swap if required, but it's not desirable as it causes pauses which would probably equate to a dropout in an audio PC.

What is unique to Macs is compressed memory where they can effectively act as if they have more memory at the expense of slower access speed.

swiller · April 2023

yes you will be fine...
if m2 mini is anything like m2 mbookair..
It will use one ssd not 2 meaning... pretty much half the speed. With upgrade to 512 you will also optimise the ram swap as its double the speed, which may be important if you go with 8gm ram.
I run more complex stuff than you and use a m2 air with 8gb and the 256gb. Zero issues.
For additinal storage, external nvme 1tb and acasis enclosure. (£200 total). Runs quicker than the internal 256gb.
My m1 pro 2x256gb ssd absolutely trounces the m2 air disk speed and the external.
So i would upgrade the ssd storage. 30gb is poss for a ram swap, on an m2 air anyway. SHould be similar on the mini.

Timeline88 · April 2023

Thanks @stonevibe @octatonic @Stuckfast @monquixote and @swiller for all your comments and linked articles/threads. I've weighed it up and decided to go with the base model. If I really get into exploring recording with Logic then I'd be willing to upgrade in time if I come up against any barriers but until then, I think this will be more than enough to get started.

Are there any resources you'd recommend getting the fundamentals of Logic down for guitarists?

Thanks!

monquixote · April 2023

Timeline88 said:

Thanks @stonevibe @octatonic @Stuckfast @monquixote and @swiller for all your comments and linked articles/threads. I've weighed it up and decided to go with the base model. If I really get into it exploring recording with Logic then I'd be willing to upgrade in time if I come against any barriers but until then, I think this will be more than enough to get started.

Are there any resources you'd recommend getting the fundamentals of Logic down for guitarists?

Thanks!

The good thing is Macs have good residuals so though you can't upgrade it you can just sell it and buy a new one and not lose too much cash if it really comes to it.

stonevibe · April 2023

Having worked for Apple for over 15 years, working with some of the top recording studios and engineers in the UK, I have found that most issues with Mac systems are down to user error.

monquixote · April 2023

stonevibe said:

Having worked for Apple for over 15 years, working with some of the top recording studios and engineers in the UK, I have found that most issues with Mac systems are down to user error.

You probably didn't buy any Macbook pros around 2018

Axe_meister · April 2023

Have just ordered the M2 Pro mac mini to which I will add the satachi hub which has an internal SATA ssd slot for external storage and it provides a bunch of IO on the front.
For a limited time only Apple are doing 0% interest over 24 months. Alas not with student discount which my son can get.
Why did I not go for the base version? 8GB is really the bare minimum and my son had quite a few issues with him base model M1 macbook when 8GB was exhausted and it started using the small internal drive. Getting beachballs and crashes in Logic. Moved up to a macbook pro with 32GB of memory and all the issues disapeared. So nicely future proofed

octatonic · April 2023

Axe_meister said:

Have just ordered the M2 Pro mac mini to which I will add the satachi hub which has an internal SATA ssd slot for external storage and it provides a bunch of IO on the front.
For a limited time only Apple are doing 0% interest over 24 months. Alas not with student discount which my son can get.
Why did I not go for the base version? 8GB is really the bare minimum and my son had quite a few issues with him base model M1 macbook when 8GB was exhausted and it started using the small internal drive. Getting beachballs and crashes in Logic. Moved up to a macbook pro with 32GB of memory and all the issues disapeared. So nicely future proofed

Please tell me it isn't the Satachi Stand and Hub?
They are not great- check the reviews.
They cause a lot of interference, causing bluetooth and wifi to be unreliable.

Axe_meister · April 2023

Not read any bad reviews so far, otherwise I was thinking of the quiizlab hub.
Bluetooth is not something I am worried about particularly. And it will be hardwired to a Gigabit switch.

Axe_meister · April 2023

Also from what I have read the Bluetooth/WiFi issues were down to issues with the M1 versions that have now been fixed with M2

octatonic · April 2023

Axe_meister said:

Also from what I have read the Bluetooth/WiFi issues were down to issues with the M1 versions that have now been fixed with M2

OK, good to know.

maharg101 · April 2023

monquixote said:

What is unique to Macs is compressed memory where they can effectively act as if they have more memory at the expense of slower access speed.

WARNING: computer pedantry ahead.

Linux has had zram for over a decade.

I believe Windows also has an implementation although I would not profess any expertise in that particular OS.

Axe_meister · April 2023

It's called swap. I believe Linux uses pre-emptive swap whereas Windows uses least recently used algorithm

monquixote · April 2023

maharg101 said:

monquixote said:

What is unique to Macs is compressed memory where they can effectively act as if they have more memory at the expense of slower access speed.

WARNING: computer pedantry ahead.

Linux has had zram for over a decade.

I believe Windows also has an implementation although I would not profess any expertise in that particular OS.

I believe the difference is that Macs have integrated compression hardware so it doesn't place additional load on the CPU.

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