CAGED - the good, the bad and the ugly?

CaseOfAce · January 2023

There's some valid criticisms in the pic below ... but I learnt a great lick that linked a mixolydian scale with it's major CAGED shape last night which blew my mind / kinda tied the room together if you know what I mean...
I also think ..well ..why would you talk CAGED with a pianist..?

CAGED system hurts your guitar playing

DefaultM · January 2023

That looks like a first year college assignment where he's been told to be on the 'against' side of it.

Roland · January 2023

Many guitarists will disagree with all his statements

kelpbeds · January 2023

Totally disagree with most of that and completely unhelpful.

Gilly · January 2023

This is marketing not advice.

blobb · January 2023

or "How putting red text on a black background hurts your eyes"?

hollywoodrox · January 2023

This looks like a Tom Hess handout , to be fair he has some valid points you’re best familiarising yourself with three notes per string and CAGED or anything that helps you map out the fretboard in your mind . I’ve not yet got that Tom Quayle app ,that seems excellent , I bloody threw away my cheap Irig adapter for my iPad when I moved as the mic is a bit flaky on mine

roberty · January 2023

What CAGED is good for is visualising various diatonic arpeggios in a single position. What it doesn't do is stop you from doing anything fucking else

Keefy · January 2023

roberty said:

What CAGED is good for is visualising various diatonic arpeggios in a single position. What it doesn't do is stop you from doing anything fucking else

Absolutely this.

The CAGED system is not the be-all and end-all of finding your way around the guitar fretboard, it’s just a step on the way. I used it to learn my major scales early on in my playing - it helped me to sight read and to play by ear. I rarely use it now but I still know where all the notes are on the fretboard.

The ‘point’ about communicating with other musicians is completely irrelevant to CAGED, it’s more about musical literacy in general.

viz · January 2023

I don’t understand CAGED. I have a mental block about it. I keep forgetting what it’s for and it doesn’t seem sit right with me somehow. I’d love someone to explain it properly to me.

Keefy · January 2023

viz said:

I don’t understand CAGED. I have a mental block about it. I keep forgetting what it’s for and it doesn’t seem sit right with me somehow. I’d love someone to explain it properly to me.

Didn’t you read the warning notice?!

AntonHunter · January 2023

No idea who that Tom Hess is (and I'm not giving him the pleasure of googling him), but it looks remarkably like he hasn't learned the CAGED system to me. If anyone knows him, send him a Joe Pass book yeah?

Gilly · January 2023

AntonHunter said:

No idea who that Tom Hess is (and I'm not giving him the pleasure of googling him), but it looks remarkably like he hasn't learned the CAGED system to me. If anyone knows him, send him a Joe Pass book yeah?

Don’t bother. Think stereotypical loudmouth American right wing nut job and you’re in the ballpark. Levi Clay did some videos on him exposing his shady practices and how he runs his teaching business like a pyramid scheme and a cult (yes really.)

roberty · January 2023

Gilly said:

AntonHunter said:

No idea who that Tom Hess is (and I'm not giving him the pleasure of googling him), but it looks remarkably like he hasn't learned the CAGED system to me. If anyone knows him, send him a Joe Pass book yeah?

Don’t bother. Think stereotypical loudmouth American right wing nut job and you’re in the ballpark. Levi Clay did some videos on him exposing his shady practices and how he runs his teaching business like a pyramid scheme and a cult (yes really.)

Came across some school of Hess tutor once and it is basically the guitar equivalent of Scientology, run by a MAGA dickhead

Gilly · January 2023

roberty said:

Gilly said:

AntonHunter said:

No idea who that Tom Hess is (and I'm not giving him the pleasure of googling him), but it looks remarkably like he hasn't learned the CAGED system to me. If anyone knows him, send him a Joe Pass book yeah?

Don’t bother. Think stereotypical loudmouth American right wing nut job and you’re in the ballpark. Levi Clay did some videos on him exposing his shady practices and how he runs his teaching business like a pyramid scheme and a cult (yes really.)

Came across some school of Hess tutor once and it is basically the guitar equivalent of Scientology, run by a MAGA dickhead

That’s exactly it! Well put.

EricTheWeary · January 2023

I have a book on CAGED which basically says here are five different ways to play Happy Birthday. Now you have learned these go play Giant Steps.
But John Frusciante is often said to be a CAGED player, the chap from Anyone Can Play Guitar says he sees the fretboard in terms of CAGED. I have been making a poor attempt at learning the solo from Santeria by Sublime and I can see how that follows a CAGED pattern. So, as an act of faith it works well for some people and that the combination of CAGED and a decent understanding of theory opens the fingerboard up. If you want to be the fastest metal player or the gnarliest bluesman it's probably just a diversion.

guitarjack66 · January 2023

CAGED has helped me tremendously in my guitar playing and is pretty easy to understand for me. There is no 'one size fits all' solution to anything but lycra clothing it seems.

stratman3142 · January 2023

viz said:

I don’t understand CAGED. I have a mental block about it. I keep forgetting what it’s for and it doesn’t seem sit right with me somehow. I’d love someone to explain it properly to me.

You probably don't need it because you have other ways of thinking that work for you. I have my own way of thinking about CAGED but, as you know much more about music than me, I wouldn't feel worthy of explaining it to you

viz · January 2023

Haha that last bit’s bollocks for a start!

What I don’t understand is,

the C - is that like playing an open C chord? And then are you supposed to play a C chord in the A-shape, on fret 3; and then what’s the G shape? Is it 875558? By doing those three chords, and the next two, am I “doing CAGED in C”? And are you supposed to play the bottom E string all the time (apart from the D shaped chord)?

Gilly · January 2023

viz said:

Haha that last bit’s bollocks for a start!

What I don’t understand is,

the C - is that like playing an open C chord? And then are you supposed to play a C chord in the A-shape, on fret 3; and then what’s the G shape? Is it 875558? By doing those three chords, and the next two, am I “doing CAGED in C”? And are you supposed to play the bottom E string all the time (apart from the D shaped chord)?

Some shapes are more practical than others. Obviously the E and A shapes are used all the time as bar chords. The other ones are less practical but you don’t necessarily have to play the whole chord. It gets really useful when you work out the scales in each position and see how they relate to the chord form. Tonnes of licks in popular music have been worked out this way.

Some of the best players (imo) use it all the time - e.g. Guthrie Trapp. I want to play like Guthrie. I don’t want to play like Tom Hess (neo-classical metal shite). Therefore I’m sticking with CAGED.

viz · January 2023

Gilly said:

viz said:

Haha that last bit’s bollocks for a start!

What I don’t understand is,

the C - is that like playing an open C chord? And then are you supposed to play a C chord in the A-shape, on fret 3; and then what’s the G shape? Is it 875558? By doing those three chords, and the next two, am I “doing CAGED in C”? And are you supposed to play the bottom E string all the time (apart from the D shaped chord)?

Some shapes are more practical than others. Obviously the E and A shapes are used all the time as bar chords. The other ones are less practical but you don’t necessarily have to play the whole chord. It gets really useful when you work out the scales in each position and see how they relate to the chord form. Tonnes of licks in popular music have been worked out this way.

Cheers. So, I often use the C shaped chord as a 1st inversion chord off the low E string (eg 476454 for an E chord), and I use a sort-of G shaped chord (sans E strings) as a first inversion off the A string (eg x4222x for an A chord). And I use the A-shaped chord as a 2nd inversion off the E string (eg 77999x for an E chord). But I can’t reconcile that with caged at all.

CaseOfAce · January 2023

I use the C shape around the 5th fret (x76454) a fair bit these days for playing an E chord. I know where the major 3rds are in it and it puts the A and B chords / CAGED shapes right under my fingers for playing the changes to these with associated scales.
I saw Knopfler using these ideas in a So Far Away live vid.

Gilly · January 2023

viz said:

Cheers. So, I often use the C shaped chord as a 1st inversion chord off the low E string (eg 476454 for an E chord), and I use a sort-of G shaped chord (sans E strings) as a first inversion off the A string (eg x4222x for an A chord). And I use the A-shaped chord as a 2nd inversion off the E string (eg 77999x for an E chord). But I can’t reconcile that with caged at all.

Taking A major as an example. You can play an A major chord using the 5 CAGED shapes.

Starting with the second chord you mention, this fingering is an A chord in the G shape. Theoretically you can add the A notes on the 1st and 6th strings but it’s not necessary.

Next would be the A chord in the E shape, which is your standard A bar chord at the 5th fret).

Next would be the A chord in the D shape. This is usually played from the 4th string at the 7th fret.

You then move up to the A chord in the C shape, then the A chord in the A shape until you’re back to the G shape an octave above.

You can do the same for minor chords and 7th chords (again some fingerings will be practical, others more theoretical).

Once you’ve learned the shapes you can use it to work out chord progressions all over the neck like Little Wing etc. Basically if you play chord progressions using the standard E and A bar shapes, you’re using CAGED, whether you think of it in that way or not.

viz · January 2023

Ok thanks, yep, I think it doesn’t add anything for me, I prefer just thinking in inversions - root, 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Cheers

Gilly · January 2023

viz said:

Ok thanks, yep, I think it doesn’t add anything for me, I prefer just thinking in inversions - root, 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Cheers

Absolutely. If you already have a more sophisticated way of mapping out the fretboard it probably won’t be of much use.

Gilly · January 2023

I think the key point is use whatever works for you or is appropriate for the style you want to play. Loads of soul, country, pop and blues players use CAGED so if that’s what you want to play then it’s probably a good idea to learn it.

For metal (or even classical) 3nps forms are probably more useful because that’s what many of those players are using when they burn up and down the fretboard.

stratman3142 · January 2023

Gilly said:

I think the key point is use whatever works for you or is appropriate for the style you want to play. Loads of soul, country, pop and blues players use CAGED so if that’s what you want to play then it’s probably a good idea to learn it.

For metal (or even classical) 3nps forms are probably more useful because that’s what many of those players are using when they burn up and down the fretboard.

I agree about using whatever works.

I don't see CAGED, 3nps, thinking in intervals (or whatever floats your boat) as being mutually exclusive. I play a lot of 3nps but still use CAGED as a fretboard roadmap/framework in helping visualise intervals on the fretboard. I just see 3nps as spanning across more than one CAGED zone on the fretboard.

Gilly · January 2023

stratman3142 said:

I agree about using whatever works.

I don't see CAGED, 3nps, thinking in intervals (or whatever floats your boat) as being mutual exclusive. I play a lot of 3nps but still use CAGED as a fretboard roadmap/framework in helping visualise intervals on the fretboard. I just see 3nps as spanning across more than one CAGED zone on the fretboard.

Good point, I agree. The appropriately-named Mr Hess certainly shouldn’t be telling people not to use a system that’s worked for years and helped countless people.

AK99 · January 2023

Gilly said:

AntonHunter said:

No idea who that Tom Hess is (and I'm not giving him the pleasure of googling him), but it looks remarkably like he hasn't learned the CAGED system to me. If anyone knows him, send him a Joe Pass book yeah?

Don’t bother. Think stereotypical loudmouth American right wing nut job and you’re in the ballpark. Levi Clay did some videos on him exposing his shady practices and how he runs his teaching business like a pyramid scheme and a cult (yes really.)

Had to read that a second time..

Rocker · January 2023

Why make something relatively simple complicated by calling it CAGED? We all know that chords and notes can be played almost anywhere on the guitar neck, so simply learn the notes and chord shapes on the area that sounds best to you.

A lot of nonsense is written about note playing speed. Excessive speed can be used to disguise the fact that there is little music being played yet will impress those that know no better.

Songs by Johnny Cash, Pink Floyd, The Beatles etc still sound fresh and interesting as they tell a story. Not because they use modes or whatever music academics call a subset of the Chromatic scale. If it sounds good, play it. Who gives a fuck what mode or whatever it is.

Keefy · January 2023

Rocker said:

..,

Songs by Johnny Cash, Pink Floyd, The Beatles etc still sound fresh and interesting as they tell a story. Not because they use modes or whatever music academics call a subset of the Chromatic scale. If it sounds good, play it. Who gives a fuck what mode or whatever it is.

I do. Probably several other people too.

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CAGED - the good, the bad and the ugly?

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