Guitars "opening up"

Cranky · December 2022

This all has me thinking.

Are there any savvy collectors out there who, like with whisky, buy and hold certain vintages? Buy new, never play, sell as vintage? Or something like that?

bertie · December 2022

Cranky said:

This all has me thinking.

Are there any savvy collectors out there who, like with whisky, buy and hold certain vintages? Buy new, never play, sell as vintage? Or something like that?

people collect and keep the source wood for sure

Dave_Mc · December 2022

Cranky said:

This all has me thinking.

Are there any savvy collectors out there who, like with whisky, buy and hold certain vintages? Buy new, never play, sell as vintage? Or something like that?

There's this guy in Essex... I think he has a recording studio...

guitarjack66 · December 2022

bertie said:

Cranky said:

This all has me thinking.

Are there any savvy collectors out there who, like with whisky, buy and hold certain vintages? Buy new, never play, sell as vintage? Or something like that?

people collect and keep the source wood for sure

Surely that this is the only 'true way' producing the best quality wood? Then again,is there a point at which the storage becomes 'past it's sell by date' so to speak and breaks down as usable material?

Gandalph · December 2022

Interesting discussion just started on this over on the agf...
For what it's worth I'm definitely in the yes acoustic guitars do 'open up' camp.

Why does a solid wood guitar "open up"?
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659998

Cranky · December 2022

Dave_Mc said:

Cranky said:

This all has me thinking.

Are there any savvy collectors out there who, like with whisky, buy and hold certain vintages? Buy new, never play, sell as vintage? Or something like that?

There's this guy in Essex... I think he has a recording studio...

Who?

I’m not English, I’m not in on the joke.

Tannin · December 2022

@Cranky he's a glorified bedroom flipper who has got rich by ripping people off disgracefully. His MO is to buy some instrument of no particular merit as cheaply as possible, then endow it with some one-of-a-kind fascination ("once played by Elvis", "owned by a chap who once had a fight in a pub with Peter Green", "was used to record some track you've never heard of") and then sell it for more than it is worth. I don't mean 10% more, I don't even mean double what it's worth, I mean way, way more. Oh, and he pretends that he's doing it for "charity" which is the biggest laugh of all.

There may be worse examples of hubris and ruthless exploitation in instrument sales, but not to my knowledge.

(There is a new thread here about twice a month detailing some new and spectacularly outrageous rip-off, and although it's new it's also same-old, same-old.)

Dave_Mc · December 2022

Cranky said:

Dave_Mc said:

Cranky said:

This all has me thinking.

Are there any savvy collectors out there who, like with whisky, buy and hold certain vintages? Buy new, never play, sell as vintage? Or something like that?

There's this guy in Essex... I think he has a recording studio...

Who?

I’m not English, I’m not in on the joke.

@Tannin explained it pretty well.

Whether he's actually got rich or just claimed he has is another thing!

(FWIW I'm not English either, I'm Northern Irish! And @Tannin lives in Tasmania, I'm assuming he's Australian.)

BillDL · December 2022

@Cranky ;; The "Essex Guitar Studios" guy is American (hmmm, or maybe he's Canadian). He has posted photos of himself in military uniform with inferences about being a highly trained counter-insurgence expert with the skill to kill you in 2 seconds flat using a toothpick and leave no trace, or silently beat you to death with the back end of a chopstick, and with the knowledge to make an improvised explosive device using a tube of toothpaste, a rubber band and a paperclip. A regular McGuyver type of guy with a beret. He also boasts about having flash cars like Ferraris and has been photographed with a shapely ex-model girlfriend.

Kittyfrisk · December 2022

BillDL said:

@Cranky ;; The "Essex Guitar Studios" guy is American (hmmm, or maybe he's Canadian). He has posted photos of himself in military uniform with inferences about being a highly trained counter-insurgence expert with the skill to kill you in 2 seconds flat using a toothpick and leave no trace, or silently beat you to death with the back end of a chopstick, and with the knowledge to make an improvised explosive device using a tube of toothpaste, a rubber band and a paperclip. A regular McGuyver type of guy with a beret. He also boasts about having flash cars like Ferraris and has been photographed with a shapely ex-model girlfriend.

From the description it sounds like you are confusing him with me

guitarjack66 · December 2022

BillDL said:

@Cranky ;; The "Essex Guitar Studios" guy is American (hmmm, or maybe he's Canadian). He has posted photos of himself in military uniform with inferences about being a highly trained counter-insurgence expert with the skill to kill you in 2 seconds flat using a toothpick and leave no trace, or silently beat you to death with the back end of a chopstick, and with the knowledge to make an improvised explosive device using a tube of toothpaste, a rubber band and a paperclip. A regular McGuyver type of guy with a beret. He also boasts about having flash cars like Ferraris and has been photographed with a shapely ex-model girlfriend.

Change 'Ferrari' to Ford Fiesta 'shapely' to 'shapeless' and we could be distant cousins from another planet.

Mellish · December 2022

Sounds to me like this Essex Studio guy lives in a dream world.

Kittyfrisk · December 2022

Mellish said:

Sounds to me like this Essex Studio guy lives in a dream world.

Definitely 'livin' the dream' in one form or another.

ToneControl · December 2022

DartmoorHedgehog said:

ToneControl said:

DartmoorHedgehog said:

Interesting - and well done to all for not turning into an argument (I realised my post would potentially divide opinions)

So the general consensus from people who support the idea is that the wood gets more supple after being vibrated for ages, like the suspension of a speaker gets bendier. It's obviously a MUCH smaller movement than a speaker cone, but it's physically possible.

I'm really not convinced by the "having to keep a guitar regularly played to maintain the sound" idea though. I can't deny that it's possible that the wood changes (breaks down) a bit structurally from vibration (although how much it affects the sound I'm not sure) but I really can't buy into the idea that it somehow "heals up" and reverts to its original state if it isn't used regularly - I think that really is Emperor's New Clothes territory.

I have a Brazilian/Adirondack dread, which does go to sleep a bit
After it's been unplayed for a while, when I fingerpick it, I end up tearing my nails up to get the sound I want.
However, if I strum it hard with a plectrum for 5-10 minutes first, or use a tonerite, I can play it the way I want without tearing up my nails, the wood responds to a lighter touch.

Luthiers on USA forums have confirmed that very stiff woods like adirondack can behave like this

Conversely, my cedar, redwood and Koa guitars seem to need less "waking up" before playing

That's really weird (as I said, I'm a bit sceptical, but may be just that I haven't had a guitar that does it, so I'm open to other opinions).

What is it that changes in your opinion in those 10 minutes of strumming? More volume, more high frequency, more low frequency, just sounds generally "better"? And how long does it take to revert to "not so good" state?

I'm a woodwind player, so used to those instruments needing warming up before they play at their best, but that's down to physical expansion of the tubes and variations in the way the air column vibrates at different temperatures. The air inside a guitar isn't going to be moved around enough for heat to have any effect, so any sound changes must be down to the wood itself.

And this is going to sound like a "people trying to justify their expensive purchase" accusation, but it honestly is a genuine question: Would you say that lighter-built guitars or certain kinds of wood (so therefore often on the more expensive side) exhibit this phenomenon more. I've not had any posh guitars so that may be a reason why I've never noticed it (to the point of not believing the effect actually exists). Perhaps I need to go into a shop and see if they'll let me hammer one of their top-end acoustics for 10 minutes and see if the sound changes

For the Braz/Adirondack, it is very noticeably responsive after 10 mins warm up
I don't know how long the "going to sleep" period is

If you do that test in a shop (in a quiet smallish room), you should fingerpick a top-end guitar, then get a mate to thrash it for 10 mins (out of your ear shot), then play it again yourself. Spruces and adirondack tops are affected more in my experience

Koa guitars are famous for needing years to break in
Bob Taylor + team used to go on about it all the time in their free magazine

Does Koa have a break in period? - The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Is it normal for an all koa guitar to “fall asleep” quickly? - The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Anyone put their Taylor(s) under the Tonerite? - The Acoustic Guitar Forum

I had a rosewood/spruce Avalon guitar that sounded OK
After using the tonerite, it sounds far better
I've known various luthiers using one, and a high-end acoustic guitar shop

LastMantra · December 2022

The strings will 'warm up' in the first few minutes too.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Guitars "opening up"

Comments