Complaints about Live Sound

ScreamingDave · November 2022

I had a punter trying to get my attention mid-song to tell me we were too loud. Between songs he came back to complain and I explained that, as we had an acoustic drum kit, all the other instruments needed to be loud enough to make a resonable mix. He huffily told me it was nothing to do with the drums and he played in a band so he knew what he was talking about.

Turned out he did, indeed, play in a band. He was the husband of one of the organisers and was miffed that his band hadn't been invited to play. In all fairness, they'd probaby have been too quiet.

Legionreturns · November 2022

An oft repeated scenario, with these actual words or a paraphrase of:

Pissed gig punter "I'm not a professional sound guy, but I AM a professional gig goer, and the vocals aren't high enough"

Me "Oh, OK. Would you like to adjust them during the next song? It's fader 1, right there" (Points at fader 1, which is digitally labelled as "Lead Vox" but not patched to an input of any kind.)

*Punter proceeds to "adjust the vocals" *

Me "Is that better?"

Punter "Yeah, ace. Thanks for letting me fix it!"

Me "No problem, enjoy the gig!"

maltingsaudio · November 2022

Legionreturns said:

An oft repeated scenario, with these actual words or a paraphrase of:

Pissed gig punter "I'm not a professional sound guy, but I AM a professional gig goer, and the vocals aren't high enough"

Me "Oh, OK. Would you like to adjust them during the next song? It's fader 1, right there" (Points at fader 1, which is digitally labelled as "Lead Vox" but not patched to an input of any kind.)

*Punter proceeds to "adjust the vocals" *

Me "Is that better?"

Punter "Yeah, ace. Thanks for letting me fix it!"

Me "No problem, enjoy the gig!"

Do the same when the band wants more monitors!

mike257 · December 2022

maltingsaudio said:

shufflebeat said:

maltingsaudio said:

Danny1969 said:

...£20 each and pay someone to mix it for you. These days it's just someone out front with an iPad, it's not like the ballache of running a snake and a desk out front like it used to be.

I agree hire a sound engineer but if you want the subtle effects Danny says in the second paragraph give him a proper desk not an iPad! Trying to tap a delay, subtly add and subtract reverb on the fly whilst balancing a mismatched instrument all at the same time is darn near impossible on an iPad!

Mixing on an iPad involves a different workflow and better pre-planning and structuring (organising of subgroups, DCAs, etc.) but there's no reason why complex mixing on the fly should be a problem.

There are a few things that are awkward on an iPad but there is much more time and space to address them, having not had to mess about with multicore and outboard in the setting up.

Let’s agree to disagree on this one, Personally far prefer Knobs and faders, all the outboard you need is on the desk and how difficult is it to run a cat 5 cable to where you want it. I do agree there are events where the iPad is the only option but from my experience I find it so much easier to do a good mix from behind a desk as opposed to a screen. (Nb have avoided the dreaded battery life question)

Definitely in agreement with you on this. A good mix is hardly ever static, and I've usually got fingers on multiple faders subtly riding things all the time, driving effects sends a little harder, pulling things back to make space or pushing musical elements in between vocal lines. With an actual control surface, you can do this with your head up watching and listening, and you can feel the movement of the controls under your fingers. With a tablet, you have to have eyes on the screen to make sure you're in the right place and your finger hasn't drifted over to the next channel. You just can't achieve the same level of control and tactile response and it always (for me at least) results in a huge simplification of what I'd do with a regular mix.

ElectricXII · December 2022

mike257 said:

maltingsaudio said:

shufflebeat said:

maltingsaudio said:

Danny1969 said:

...£20 each and pay someone to mix it for you. These days it's just someone out front with an iPad, it's not like the ballache of running a snake and a desk out front like it used to be.

I agree hire a sound engineer but if you want the subtle effects Danny says in the second paragraph give him a proper desk not an iPad! Trying to tap a delay, subtly add and subtract reverb on the fly whilst balancing a mismatched instrument all at the same time is darn near impossible on an iPad!

Mixing on an iPad involves a different workflow and better pre-planning and structuring (organising of subgroups, DCAs, etc.) but there's no reason why complex mixing on the fly should be a problem.

There are a few things that are awkward on an iPad but there is much more time and space to address them, having not had to mess about with multicore and outboard in the setting up.

Let’s agree to disagree on this one, Personally far prefer Knobs and faders, all the outboard you need is on the desk and how difficult is it to run a cat 5 cable to where you want it. I do agree there are events where the iPad is the only option but from my experience I find it so much easier to do a good mix from behind a desk as opposed to a screen. (Nb have avoided the dreaded battery life question)

Definitely in agreement with you on this. A good mix is hardly ever static, and I've usually got fingers on multiple faders subtly riding things all the time, driving effects sends a little harder, pulling things back to make space or pushing musical elements in between vocal lines. With an actual control surface, you can do this with your head up watching and listening, and you can feel the movement of the controls under your fingers. With a tablet, you have to have eyes on the screen to make sure you're in the right place and your finger hasn't drifted over to the next channel. You just can't achieve the same level of control and tactile response and it always (for me at least) results in a huge simplification of what I'd do with a regular mix.

Plus if you're staring down at a screen all the time you'll miss all the visual clues you would get if you had your eyes on the performers.

Danny1969 · December 2022

One problem I have is I need to wear glasses to see the iPad but need to take those off to see the band. So it's a constant glasses on / off thing.
There's little choice though. Even if the band has a digital stage box and you only need to run a single cat 5 you still need somewhere out front to put the desk and that's the problem.

What would be nice is if they designed a surface with real faders / soft keys and fat channels that connected to the iPad and mixed wirelessly.

shufflebeat · December 2022

There's some truth in the comments regarding the downside of iPad mixing.

However...

This is why I suggest there is a different workflow for iPad vs knob/fader control.

The same issues crop up repeatedly - as described so clearly by yourselves - so deal with them in the pre-planning.

Mix is rarely static, agreed, but if I know the setlist reasonably well I can set up groups for, for instance, melody instruments which will need to be boosted either singly or collectively. If one is taking a solo the the other will shut up so I can boost both without problems, only the solo is playing.

I have presets for vocals so I can recall compressor settings in an instant to swap between lead/BV, depending on whose song it is.

I have toms on a DCA so I can lift them where appropriate. With practice most of this is done with a glance down rather than a glance up, which admittedly was the case when I was getting the hang of things (still am, of course).

Aside - all drums except o/h and h/h are gated and kick compresses the bass DI via a side chain - do that with an analogue setup - PITA.

I have custom layouts so that pretty much everything I need is one click away. This has evolved over time but I now have a template in my head which can be adopted for any regular band and adapted for the oddballs.

I like the idea of a control surface which makes the most of all the technological offerings while retaining some touchy-feely but, to be honest, I think it would slow me down and I reckon the manufacturers agree because, despite the fact that the actual technology exists (DAW control surfaces) no-one seems to be interested in adapting it for an affordable FoH option.

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