Singing thread for amateurs

thecolourbox · September 2022

Looking forward to listening to those examples tomorrow @sambostar - can't listen just now but will definitely do so tomorrow.

roberty · September 2022

@thecolourbox finding that voice was a gradual thing, it sort of evolved over years of rehearsing and gigging and it's a kind of a character I slip into. Really though it was just a way to be heard through shit PAs

thecolourbox · September 2022

@Sambostar thanks for sharing - I particularly enjoyed Flying Shoes and Bastard Son, they seemed to be in your most controlled range and sounded good. I think you'd be surprised with the results if you sang separately to playing the guitar - it sounds like you're trying hard to stay in with the guitar which is harder to do whilst playing. You could definitely do something with some lessons I reckon, or at least some guidance from somebody who specialises in singing the styles you like to do. Great stuff though, thanks for sharing!

LastMantra · September 2022

It's definitely easier to get a more polished result when you record guitar and vocals separately, so you can focus more on each.

Saying that I'm enjoying listening to your stuff @Sambostar and it has an honesty for want of a better word that's easily lost when you focus too much on "production". It sounds like you are getting into it, there's "feeling" there.
Unfortunately I can't get @roberty 's stuff atm because of my old phone

roberty · September 2022

I like your sincere delivery @Sambostar, like @LastMantra said. Flying Shoes was my fave out of those

I have some old stuff on Soundcloud from my previous band, we did a Talking Heads cover that was quite fun. It was recorded in one take

LastMantra · September 2022

Got that one @roberty, excellent! Not a tune I'm familiar with but really loved every bit of it.

thecolourbox · September 2022

Yes your voice really suits that kind of vibe and rhythm, very cool stuff

robinbowes · September 2022

Great idea for a thread. I really wish I could sing better than I can. I must try some lessons.

I used to have a much wider range, but got straight-armed in the throat playing hockey in the early-2000s and am much more limited now. eg. I used to be able to do falsetto but no longer can (eg. used to be able to do the Barbara Woodhouse "Walkies" thing, but now can't).

Anyway, here are a couple of songs, rough recordings. The first is recorded in one take; the second, I recorded a guide then replaced the tracks and I think the vocal is a little loud in the mix.

All comments appreciated - not looking to have smoke blown up my arse!

thecolourbox · September 2022

Good stuff @Robinbowes, i think the second one especially suited your voice with a slower more relaxed pace to it, and I guess being recorded separately to guitar. You have a nice "edge of break up" sound (to use a guitar term) at times where you're moving around the notes especially, adds a bit of different interest to it in my opinion. I think with a bit more confidence in it your breathing would also be steadier and help you out a bit

robinbowes · September 2022

thecolourbox said:

Good stuff @Robinbowes, i think the second one especially suited your voice with a slower more relaxed pace to it, and I guess being recorded separately to guitar. You have a nice "edge of break up" sound (to use a guitar term) at times where you're moving around the notes especially, adds a bit of different interest to it in my opinion. I think with a bit more confidence in it your breathing would also be steadier and help you out a bit

Thanks for the comments.

Interesting you spotted the break-up thing - I noticed it myself when recording. I think I'd been singing quite a lot that day!

That song is right on the edge of (and possibly just a bit out of) my range. Listening back, I remember now that the timing is a bit out of whack - I recorded it in a bit of a hurry.

I shall try doing some more recordings and see how I'm progressing.

R.

thecolourbox · September 2022

Well it works for you I think, if you can work out how to do it deliberately rather than just being worn out and in a rush

Realised I didn't answer @Cryptid when he asked what music I'd like to do. I've thought about it and obviously everything is a compromise - with the best will in the world, doing high octane fast rock n roll is not going to work

I think where my voice and my tastes in music combine, which I could see myself performing and being interested with the result, would be somewhere between my vocal hero Jeff Buckley (Grace, Mojo Pin, for eg) and I guess Laura Marling type thing which is a bit more limited in voice and scope than the melodrama of Buckley which needs more agility. Essentially solo guitar or Piano and voice (maybe some basic effected drum loops as accompaniment). I can't just do Buckley songs because he usually jumps up an octave at some point in the song which, even if I can reach it, doesn't sound good belting out with my voice. But that does also reduce the potential for songs which build to a climax as I just don't have anywhere else to go with the voice other than that nasal base tone. Hence I get very boring after one song and there's nowhere that wants that kind of performer

I did get an artist called Puma Blue recommended to me as a similar voice, although again he has a falsetto that I just don't have in my arsenal. Also I absolutely don't have his chord vocab on guitar, moreso on piano but I also lack the gravity and confidence (and breathing technique) to play and sing stuff that slowly and still pull it off

Sambostar · September 2022

This. Singing isn't this ^=, for me. Dreary merge. It's not relatable, nor enjoyable, at least to my ears, but I guess, it's what you do relate to, such that it's so subjective. I won't lay it on any thicker. He needs to be in a band, sounds empty on it's own, hence why low register has advantages, probably not, it's Friday.

thecolourbox · September 2022

Sambostar said:

This. Singing isn't this ^=, for me. Dreary merge. It's not relatable, nor enjoyable, at least to my ears, but I guess, it's what you do relate to, such that it's so subjective. I won't lay it on any thicker. He needs to be in a band, sounds empty on it's own, hence why low register has advantages, probably not, it's Friday.

he is normally with a band to be fair, I just thought that was more indicative of how I'd sound as I refuse to play with other musicians. I know it's not for everybody, but for a depressive millennial who likes old slow jazz it has a certain something

Also it's more achievable than this haha:

Sambostar · September 2022

It does and it's very good, but airey, so I'd get bored quick, and my wife would love it though so it's really as subjective as colour or guitar. Sounds a bit in the range of Valerie.

. Not to be some kind of homo erotic wierdo, but I think there is a place for a lower register male voice when I talk to a lot of people locally and think of how much Joy Division, through country to the modern Americana revival are so well liked. I don't think Love Will Tear Us Apart would have had the impact and resonance with that voicing. I'II never be able to do that, so there's probably a lot of ego driven blinkerness going on on my part, which I need to lose, at least if I am to start getting reasonable at singing

Cryptid · September 2022

@thecolourbox ; Isn't falsetto just a breathier version of head voice, a thinner sound? I believe they're both the same register, but head voice mixes some chest voice for resonance and power, no?

I love Jeff Buckley, lots of ornamentation but his voice remains connected and grounded through it. Had a big crush on Laura Marling - sometimes a voice just totally bewitches you, and besides, she's cool as a cucumber. For me, she has a flawlessly classic yet honest voice; an almost healing tone with a vibrato that would make a bird jealous.

An issue of taste, but I can't really get with Mr Puma Blue. I far prefer your voice! He's got this breathy, floaty thing going on without much resonance or grounding. Plus, there's something about a lot of younger singers' phrasing and accent/style that really turns me off. For me anyway, it's often a case of style over substance.

That said, I love that everyone's voices are unique and there's a place of all kinds of registers and styles. I definitely haven't found my own voice yet and that's probably a result of performing covers with a choir and not getting round to writing any songs of my own. I'm a bit of a vocal chameleon. I often wish I could belt like a tenor but I have no option but to start mixing head voice for anything that goes over E4, so I'm learning to work with what I have.

If Buckley is your vocal hero, you might like Moses Sumney - a contemporary singer who I consider to have a true command over his voice, with as much substance as style. A true modern great who writes deeply interesting, genre-spanning music too IMO:

thecolourbox · September 2022

Re the falsetto sorry i don't think I worded it very well above. I can kind of do it but it just doesn't sound nice. Same as I can belt chest voice but it just isn't a good sound. The only voice I can do that sounds ok is that breathy head voice.

I'll have a listen to the singer you mentioned though those two videos aren't really doing a lot for me - a lot of tasteful and nice singing and playing but it gives me nothing at all I'm afraid. Again a matter of taste I guess

Sambostar · September 2022

Just found some stuff from our pub singing Won't Get Fooled Again, that has a few F4's in it and it sounds OK which surprises me, but it's strained to hell. You can learn a lot from watching singers mic technique live. It's all technique, especially when they sound like they're belting a chest but only 2mm from the mic. At the moment I'm committed to going around the house making strange noises in head voice, weird dove sounds and just generally getting used to it without a raised larynx or falsetto without bothering with any particular notes. It's doing my wife's head in, but since she's now said I'I never be able to sing, I'm committed to it and think I need at least a month of strange noise making before I'm even ready to start practicing again. I'm convinced that if you can consistently make these higher register noises that aren't in falsetto, you're half way there.

Sambostar · September 2022

I do like this video. Also I wonder if much of people's basic ability and muscle memory depends on how they've learned to communicate generally with their voice and projection in the day to day. Not everyone can do everything, but I'm convinced much of this is muscle training or memory. He's bang on men generally in chest voice and about middle C (C4 - 5th fret G string) as well. It's frustrating because I can hear it in my head, but the break between head and chest is fascinating. I've heard that even Joe Elliot had to record the head and chest vocal on the first few Def Leppard albums separately because he couldn't make the transition smoothly. I love listening to how his voice evolved especially.

roberty · September 2022

@robinbowes I enjoyed that, you have a good tone

Thanks for the kind words @LastMantra @thecolourbox ;

Jeff Buckley was just ridiculously good

A friend of mine is a soul singer who signed to Polydor back in the day. His voice is something else. He can improvise melody and lyrics on the spot too. Works with drum'n'bass and reggae producers now. I don't think he's capable of singing a bad note

My take on it all is I like Ian Drury as much as I like Freddie Mercury, and the B52s as much as Led Zeppelin. A lot of it is to do with personality

LastMantra · September 2022

robinbowes said:

Great idea for a thread. I really wish I could sing better than I can. I must try some lessons.

I used to have a much wider range, but got straight-armed in the throat playing hockey in the early-2000s and am much more limited now. eg. I used to be able to do falsetto but no longer can (eg. used to be able to do the Barbara Woodhouse "Walkies" thing, but now can't).

Anyway, here are a couple of songs, rough recordings. The first is recorded in one take; the second, I recorded a guide then replaced the tracks and I think the vocal is a little loud in the mix.

All comments appreciated - not looking to have smoke blown up my arse!

Very nice @robinbowes, I like the slightly grittiness and general tone of your voice. Suits the type of music very much I think.

thecolourbox · September 2022

roberty said:

My take on it all is I like Ian Drury as much as I like Freddie Mercury, and the B52s as much as Led Zeppelin. A lot of it is to do with personality

I agree with the personality thing, although I find that's harder still for me as I don't really have any personality to stamp on singing either, which the best of types of vocalists do. I also think personality is harder to fake than it is to develop better techniques

roberty · September 2022

thecolourbox said:

roberty said:

My take on it all is I like Ian Drury as much as I like Freddie Mercury, and the B52s as much as Led Zeppelin. A lot of it is to do with personality

I agree with the personality thing, although I find that's harder still for me as I don't really have any personality to stamp on singing either, which the best of types of vocalists do. I also think personality is harder to fake than it is to develop better techniques

I think if you're insincere at all an audience will pick that up right away, even if they know nothing about music. The most important thing is to be honest and a little bit self aware imo

That's why actors struggle to cross over into singing careers, whereas it's relatively common for singers to cross over into film. Audiences can't trust an actor to be not-acting and so that illusion of sincerity is broken before they begin

robinbowes · September 2022

Thanks for the positive comments.

R.

CaseOfAce · September 2022

Singing is REALLY important as a guitarist. REALLY important.

I didn't find singing lessons that useful personally - really good tutors are hard to find.

I also feel people get way too caught up with the technicalities and mechanics of singing.

I do try and sing from the diaphragm and not from the back of the throat, stand up straight, if it starts to hurt I'm doing it wrong -but otherwise I work with what I've got and if I'm learning a new song I learn the lyrics and sing 'em as well as learning / playing the guitar parts - even if it 's singing the vocal lead an octave down - to build stamina, improve pitch.
Working on vocal harmonies when I can as well... I know when I''ve got the right part ... it just sounds "right".

And singing with a band is a completely different ball game - given volume, dodgy acoustics, the din around you and sh*itty monitoring - try singing harmonies in that situation!

roberty · September 2022

CaseOfAce said:

Singing is REALLY important as a guitarist. REALLY important.

I didn't find singing lessons that useful personally - really good tutors are hard to find.

I also feel people get way too caught up with the technicalities and mechanics of singing.

I do try and sing from the diaphragm and not from the back of the throat, stand up straight, if it starts to hurt I'm doing it wrong -but otherwise I work with what I've got and if I'm learning a new song I learn the lyrics and sing 'em as well as learning / playing the guitar parts - even if it 's singing the vocal lead an octave down - to build stamina, improve pitch.
Working on vocal harmonies when I can as well... I know when I''ve got the right part ... it just sounds "right".

And singing with a band is a completely different ball game - given volume, dodgy acoustics, the din around you and sh*itty monitoring - try singing harmonies in that situation!

A mate of mine's (recently deceased) father played in bands in the 1970s. He used to say that back then everyone was expected to sing. They wouldn't even bother to ask, it was assumed

guitarjack66 · November 2022

I'd love to be able to sing competently but the good Lord has made my vocal tones sound like an animals claw being raked across a chalkboard.

TheOtherDennis · November 2022

I've struggled with singing all my life. For decades I was absolutely terrible. I took some lessons to try to sing and play so I could go to singarounds, but the teacher moved away after a few lessons because her boyfriend moved on.

Since then I've just tried to make sure I get reasonably close to a tune that's roughly in my range - Richard Hawley is the closest I can come to.

But I have little or no confidence that I'm any good. I try and I'll give it a go, but I'm often so nervous I tighten up and that's just death for singing. Sometimes I'm better than others, and I've even been quite good a couple of times, but lately I've had a chesty cough I just can't get rid of and it's deeply frustrating.

I really really need to practice more, though, and get back to where I was before the pandemic killed everything off and left me struggling to find anywhere to go.

jackio · November 2022

I've had a few lessons. Used to be in a choir before my voice broke and since then have not enjoyed singing cos I don't like how I sound. Soooo, I had a few lessons and, after reading this thread a few weeks ago followed the suggestion to just sing more. I have, and intermittently now, my voice sounds good enough, controlled, balanced. Practice. Also trying to appreciate my voice for what it is.

One day I am hoping I will like it, and, as a performer, have someone say 'you sing nicely'

Stuckfast · January 2023

I've had a few singing lessons and always really struggled to apply anything that I was taught. Breathing from here, breathing from there, singing from the diaphragm or whatever, I never got the hang of how those things felt to do so could never reproduce them reliably.

On my day I can pull out an attention-grabbing performance but it's more characterful than musical I think.

Open_G · January 2023

Ive never really gotten used to my “broken” voice. All of the singing we do as kids, in assembly, in choirs and generally at school stopped before my voice broke and I’ve never really tried again until recently. I’ve had to try and teach myself how to harmonise doing some backing vocals and generally push my range as it almost always involved singing with someone with a lot higher voice than me.

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