Singing thread for amateurs

Sambostar · September 2022

I know we tried it years ago. Wonder if we could revive an ego free singing thread, posting up stuff and listening to it, especially since it's so hard for the average male to sing in any frequency that allows people to understand the intonation, letting alone chopping from chest to head voice, which takes years to master. Is Drew still about or did he die? Also, you're not born with it, it takes years of practice and muscle memory, just like any other instrument. Shame low baritones and bass singers don't cut through the mix with the melody, although I think we are in changing times and all will change and it is, albeit slowly.

Sambostar · September 2022

Especially when they cut off the electric.

thecolourbox · September 2022

I'm vain enough to go first

don't need much excuse to share my singing even though I know it's fairly limited, here's a couple that are fairly representative of my style:

As far as I know I'm pretty solely head voice, I don't really have a chest voice that is useful (it sounds terrible)

Sambostar · September 2022

Love it x

thecolourbox · September 2022

Cheers, I know it's a bit dull and lifeless, I don't really like that style of music that my voice seems to suit but I'm kind of stuck with it so that's the type of music that gets wheeled out if ever I have to perform. I do wish there were more interesting styles of music I could do but I just don't have the range sadly

axisus · September 2022

I wish I could sing but my voice is terrible. I seem to be a bit tone deaf with singing, plus my range is very narrow, plus my displaced septum gives a horrible nasal sound plus if I sing in the car something too high it damages my throat after 1 song and I love my ability to sing at all for that day.

I'd love lessons but I just don't have the balls for it starting from such a low place.

axisus · September 2022

@thecolourbox I couldn't play the songs right through as I'm at work, but having listened to sections of both songs, I love the sound of your voice! Understated and cool tone. Envy!!!!

thecolourbox · September 2022

Thanks @axisus ;; that's very kind of you. My frustration is that whilst I feel like it's an acceptably pleasant sound, it's essentially the only pleasant sound I can make and as such I can only ever do that kind of dull background "bed wetter" music. In some ways the kind of reserved dullness that my voice has (and the music that goes with it) represents me very well as a person as I'm also rather dull and reserved

but it's just not music I enjoy listening to, or enjoy playing other than the slight kind of appreciation of it coming together.

As such, I feel like I pretty much reached what I was capable of doing pretty early on in the journey - only really started singing in mid 20s (mid 30s now) but fairly quickly I was able to sound pretty much like I do in the recordings so I do frequently get bored of trying it as there isn't any interesting music to get my teeth into nor any real way I can change what the voice does to do the music I'd actually like. I'm a good actor so I can do stuff like that without people realising I don't really like it, but there's very limited scope for that kind of music in a performance setting

LastMantra · September 2022

I've got a few on soundcloud I did years ago. This one is a bit different to the others.

https://m.soundcloud.com/davemc-2/andy-warhol-bowie-cover

Don't know how to make a proper link.

thecolourbox · September 2022

I really enjoyed that @LastMantra you definitely got a great vibe going on with that one. I do love the older Bowie stuff like that song more than the more polished later stuff as well. But you nailed it mate, great stuff. Given you a follow on Soundcloud (not that you seem to need it with your numbers haha I don't get very many listens at all on there so you must be doing something right)

LastMantra · September 2022

thecolourbox said:

I really enjoyed that @LastMantra you definitely got a great vibe going on with that one. I do love the older Bowie stuff like that song more than the more polished later stuff as well. But you nailed it mate, great stuff. Given you a follow on Soundcloud (not that you seem to need it with your numbers haha I don't get very many listens at all on there so you must be doing something right)

Thanks very much, very kind.

I only have that many listens because I used to do some guitar playing collaboration with a guy that was very prolific on there

That was ages ago. Soundcloud was better then I think they ruined it. There was a while on the old music radar forum when there was a nice wee bunch of guys sharing and collaborating.

I've heard some of your stuff before and always enjoyed it. Bit more professional sounding than mine.

thecolourbox · September 2022

I wouldn't say my stuff sounded more anything than yours, just different. I'm quite conscious that I'm very much aesthetically driven as a way to make up for my lack of performance and recording/production skills! So that is probably what you are hearing more than any actual genuine professional polish haha smoke and mirrors!

LastMantra · September 2022

thecolourbox said:

I wouldn't say my stuff sounded more anything than yours, just different. I'm quite conscious that I'm very much aesthetically driven as a way to make up for my lack of performance and recording/production skills! So that is probably what you are hearing more than any actual genuine professional polish haha smoke and mirrors!

Well it's working.

You say you can't sing the kind of stuff you would like to, what would that be?

I reckon you could get a bit more growl if you pushed it a bit. Do you use any distortion or fx normally?

DiscoStu · September 2022

I love singing though I accept I'm fairly average. I'm definitely a head voice and can do a bit of falsetto but that means that I'm crap at a lot of stuff I'd like to do in the heavier department. Like @thecolourbox I tend to default to the more singer/songwriter type stuff when it comes to doing vocals.
I get by. I was much better when I was younger but I have breathing problems and blocked sinuses now which make things a bit more difficult.
I'd love to have Peter Gabriel's voice though, he gets me every time! I don't, but here's me trying a PG track during lockdown.

thecolourbox · September 2022

@Discostu enjoyed that too mate, you've a nice tone to your voice - i'm sure you know but i bet it would sound even better if you were stood up or sat on a taller stool without hunching over. Cat was digging it as well, i'm sure i saw it tapping its paw at one point. You clearly love the song which I think shows, I'm reasonably good at acting when performing but I do struggle to go that extra bit into really sounding like I'm in the song as I usually don't like the stuff I'm playing. One exception would be Hallelujah or Blackhole Sun when I've done those, but even then I don't think it sounds as genuine as yours. You've got a terrific sound mate, keep doing it. Have you tried Fishermen's Friends sweets?

@LastMantra in a lot of things I've learnt more how to hide my deficiencies than I have how to reduce them, not just in musical stuff. It's got me by but ultimately obviously isn't great for my self belief knowing that I'm a bit of a fudger of things. What I liek to listen to and what I can play on guitar/piano cross over in a few places I guess, but the voice capabilities don't cross over as much. The vocalists I enjoy playing the music of, tend to be on the one hand melodic stuff like Jeff Buckley, Chris Cornell, Jacob Collier, that kind of thing, then on the other hand quite percussive, wordy and percussive stuff like Jack White, Laura Marling, Lou Reed. What I end up having to do when performing is stuff like Simon & Garfunkel, Dylan, or various female singers transposed down slightly (for example You've Got a Friend Above), or when I'm writing my own stuff to record (for example the second song above) I have to stick to things like "What if person X did a mellow chilled song" and kind of collage a few things together. For example that one was kind of "if Damon Albarn sang a Life on Mars style Bowie song accompanied by Bridge over Troubled Water piano". Interesting for a while but limited enjoyment once done.

Re distortion/growl etc, I can add a bit of punch though it's hard to actually get a gravelly sound without having a bad throat to start with, however it just doesn't sound very good. The same element of luck which makes my brethy head voice sound ok has made my belt or punchy voice sound unpleasant! I have occasionally added distortion fx on my recordings to try and help with mixed results.

I feel like it works on this original track:

But sounds awful on this cover:

LastMantra · September 2022

@DiscoStu very cool fella. I agree you look a bit hunched over which can't be helping. Definitely something there though, nice tone.

@thecolourbox have to disagree with you about the second track there, I think it sounds great! Cool original track too and some very nice playing.

DiscoStu · September 2022

Thanks @thecolourbox @LastMantra that means a lot. I don't do much performing these days due to self doubt and nerves so your positive critique is welcomed. Yeah I was leaning over in that vid, I had the lyric sheet on the floor haha! It was during lockdown and a lot of my mates were posting tunes they were doing at home so I thought I'd try something too. It wasn't meant to be a showcase number.
Some days I struggle with breathing/lung capacity and that really affects my singing. I can't hit notes and I can't hold them either. Some days I've nearly fainted when I'm singing and I can only assume that means less oxygen is getting to my brain. Total pisser!

Mellish · September 2022

@axisus ; I'd encourage you to go for lessons.

Trust me, however bad you *think* you are, they've heard worse! It's just that first step, you'll be fine after that

hessodreamy · September 2022

Mellish said:

@axisus ; I'd encourage you to go for lessons.

Trust me, however bad you *think* you are, they've heard worse! It's just that first step, you'll be fine after that

@axisus ; I'm pretty bad, so I took singing lessons. Now I'm slightly less bad. I've managed to lessen my nasal sound and make it more open. You get to know the moving parts and how to use them to get different sounds.

@thecolourbox if you feel your voice is limited then lessons could help expand that. There's certainly something there for them to work with!

DiscoStu · September 2022

I've been thinking about lessons for years to improve my breathing and control but there's nobody round my way doing them. So I is wot I is!

LastMantra · September 2022

I think the main thing is you need to just do it. I mean people here play and practice guitar every day and we all know it takes years to get any good, singing is no different really. You can't expect to just automatically be good.

IMHO anyway.

People get very self conscious though, I do anyway. You need to be relaxed really.

What I do is record a bit and listen back and figure out what I like and don't like. When you're recording at home you can break it right down to each line, each word if you want, until it sounds how you want it to.

Sambostar · September 2022

@axisus everyone should have a go, granted, some can sing with better tone and range than others, but to say that some can't sing is a bit of an insult to hard work and endless hours of practice and developed muscle memory of those that 'Can'.

Sambostar · September 2022

Didn't mean to sound rude, the rest of my rant didn't post, lol. I struggle getting higher and when i try to sing in head voice it barely reaches the chest or talking voice of your average pop song and sounds more like a choirboy singing Going Up Country by Canned Heat than gravelly. Not so sure I'm a great bass singer either, having seen some great bass singers in classical choirs. Also my voice cracks when I try to sing an E4, which is only 2 octaves up from a low E on the guitar and cannot transition from chest to head, which is very common. Fed up of a reliance on lead singers, think our approach in our crappy covers band is who ever can sing the lead best does so and the rest harmonise, it will never cut through the mix as well as a higher pitched singer and mic technique is crucial, but it's one approach. Endlessly higher range singing can get boring anyway to my ears. Got a few lessons booked, it's a bucket list thing.

thecolourbox · September 2022

I think what i find frustrating about singing is that with every other instrument , with enough effort time and money you can basically sound like whatever you want - you can learn the guitar parts of whoever that you like, buy the same amps or modelling etc, on piano you can learn the pieces and techniques to do what you want and like. But with singing, you basically have to work with what you've got whether you like it or not. All you can really do is make it better within its own thing but you can't choose how to sound, hence why I get pissed off as I don't enjoy the music I can sing.

I always think it's a massive coincidence that the big stars and singing legends happen to have a voice which suits what they like. Imagine if Whitney Houston actually only really liked Grunge music but she was trapped in having to do the big ballad stuff. Or if Chris Cornell's musical ideal had actually have been the songs of Lloyd Webber?

I did try and get some singing lessons locally a while back but the local teachers to me were all musical theatre or classical based

roberty · September 2022

I kind of have the opposite problem, I picked up singing in little venues with shitty PAs and no monitoring, basically had to sing high and loud to be heard. I can get quite screechy if I'm not careful. I've been trying to work on my chest voice a bit and get a fatter, warmer tone in general

I mostly do shouty stuff because it's my default setting: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dokkgf4h5n6916w/Razor.mp3?dl=0

But I did this quiet one recently just to sort of prove I can: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q45l9lhv1cwtnio/AUD-20211020-WA0006.mp3?dl=0

@thecolourbox you sound great to me, I would love to be able to sing the way you do

Cryptid · September 2022

@thecolourbox You've got a great voice man. It's what I'd called 'honest' which is possibly the best compliment I can give. So many singers over-stylise their voice these days IMO. Your soft lisp and tone reminds me of the best aspects of Robert Wyatt's voice.

I used to love singing as a child. After a duet with my then best mate at a talent show (around the age of 13), he took me aside and told me my voice was terrible and that everyone had been laughing at me. I thanked him for being honest, internalised it, and didn't sing again for decades. A powerful belief (amongst others pertaining to how others hear me) that I'm still working on shaking off!

What got me singing again was a gig on acoustic accompanying a pop/soul choir. Most were far from confident singers but the joy was infectious. I joined full time and by the second rehearsal I was singing too. 8 years in and I'm confident enough in that setting to lead the choir if the conductor is absent.

I have a deep chest voice (can belt up to E4 ish), and on a good day my head voice will get me to E5. Find it very hard to bridge the two though.

I still don't have the confidence to perform solo, or to sing at volume in my thin-walled terraced house. Yet whenever I'm in the shower or running a bath I feel more comfortable and almost compelled to sing. I've found a white noise generator helps take the edge off.

Every now and again, I catch myself singing without realising I've been doing so. Effortless with a good natural vibrato... right up to the point where I become aware of it and try do it again

thecolourbox · September 2022

@roberty wow, there's a lot of energy in your voice! And such a unique characterful voice. Kind of got a high pitched Gary Numan about it, how did you even work out you could do that?

@cryptid that's very kind, I've no idea who Robert Wyatt is but I'll look him up in case he does more interesting music than I've managed to do with my voice. I know my voice sounds inoffensively pleasant (albeit not for more than a couple of songs as it gets boring VERY quickly) but it just that the music it can do holds very little interest for me unfortunately. I've not been able to (nor has anybody else I've asked) find any music it would work with that is interesting to me. I enjoy grungey and garage rock type influenced stuff, not the staid "self assured" smug-look-on-my-face classic songbook type stuff. Also, before anybody suggests it - collaborating or playing alongside others won't work either! There are better singers and better accompanists than me who would be better suited to that setup. I just feel like i've achieved all I can with my voice, there's no other music to discover with it for me.

Sounds like you just need to keep doing the random unaware singing more often Cryptid, so you know how the chest and throat feel when you're doing the nicer sounds, so they become natural. If you can get to E5 you've got a better pitch range than me. I think I can get to c5 or c#5 at best and that's only with a bizarre out-breathing technique. You'll suddenly out of nowhere get the confidence maybe - I didn't sing until at least mid 20s

Edit: do I have a lisp? I had never noticed...

2nd edit: a quick Spotify peruse of Wyatt and I'm not sure if I somehow managed to combine lots of unrelated recordings to play at the same time, mixed with a bit of 70s talk radio voices... Is there a specific song I should be looking for?!

Cryptid · September 2022

@thecolourbox ;;; The Robert Wyatt who once drummed for Soft Machine. This is his most well-known solo song I think...

Obviously you don't have the accent, but the general tone of your voice made me think of him (meant as a compliment). But then again I seem to make a lot of random connections that others don't agree with. Perhaps you don't have a lisp when you talk but the sibilance on the recordings sounds to me like a soft lisp, which I quite like.

I think my voice suits classic songbook stuff better too, but I don't mind so much. For years I hated it and played in heavy guitar bands (no vocals from me) but the choir experience has really made me appreciate a lot of that stuff again, especially when transcribing and arranging. I often wish my voice sounded more soulful and gravelly - it sounds contrived when I try, despite decades of smoking. I'm just grateful for the weekly opportunity to sing at volume in a supportive atmosphere, even if it's material I'd not necessarily listen to at home.

Can you give some examples of music you enjoy and don't think your voice is suited to?

It sounds like you've reached a sort of mental impasse with your voice if you feel like there's no other music to discover with it. Maybe finding the right teacher would help develop your voice in that direction, if you really wanted to.

Sambostar · September 2022

thecolourbox said:

I think what i find frustrating about singing is that with every other instrument , with enough effort time and money you can basically sound like whatever you want - you can learn the guitar parts of whoever that you like, buy the same amps or modelling etc, on piano you can learn the pieces and techniques to do what you want and like. But with singing, you basically have to work with what you've got whether you like it or not. All you can really do is make it better within its own thing but you can't choose how to sound, hence why I get pissed off as I don't enjoy the music I can sing.

This exactly. Hey, maybe do a cover challenge, bit like the guitar challenge thing. Original song, in your own style, but set to a certain key. That would certainly mix it up.

. Or, at least reveal some of our weaknesses or strengths, only a very few can really do everything, I do hate them, lol, but they're a rare breed or very well experienced and practiced with sooo many hours or hard work in, so you can't really be bitter about it.

But then, so much about how our voices should sound is lead by popular music or culture. Ha, for example Mongolian throat singing is never really gonna chart, but it has it's place. In our band, we work with peer pressure basically, we'll never be great. Usually work out who's best with their sound, singing all the notes, when something new is one the table. It gets a bit competitive, but we're realistic enough to know who's strongest for the lead and it does change, in fact it pisses me off a little when someone tries to do everything, even though it's not the best, or equally drop down to where I'm harmonizing, when they can kill the lead vocal.

Sambostar · September 2022

Here are some from high to low, think my range is somewhere in between.

Take back that suggestion about a mini X Factor, that, algorithmic screening bots and retirement flats have decimated the music industry. Everyone's voice is unique and poetry is what it is, I've always struggled with language, probably like most other guitar players, and things often come across as serious when I don't mean them to be, which is why drink helps, but I can't help but feel everyone can offer something, no matter how half cut or spoken or badly recorded or out of time. Just got so inspired when one of my favourite local bands/singers said he had singing lessons and also a solo artists at the beer festival at the weekend. Never be a touch on him, or his bandmates, or the other guy, but still inspiring. Yeah, that last one is a Paul Robeson cover lol. Come them coming and any advice appreciated, apart from give up

Sambostar · September 2022

LastMantra said:

I think the main thing is you need to just do it. I mean people here play and practice guitar every day and we all know it takes years to get any good, singing is no different really. You can't expect to just automatically be good.

Totally agree with this and @DiscoStu, donno if that was a break to head voice or falsetto, sounded more like head, but I'd listen to you down a pub on an evening as a paid gig, you are a lot better than a local duo who have got a lot of press and I don't know why and a lot of three pieces, certainly if you have more like that.

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Singing thread for amateurs

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