Daisy Tempest On Andertons - Interesting Video

darthed1981 · June 2022

BillDL said:

An April 2022 Daisy Tempest video just popped up in my YouTube "recommended" list, so I decided to have a look. I won't be watching any more. At the very outset she explains "Just before I go any further I should note that I'm not a guitar repair person, I'm a guitar builder - a luthier". I got a strong whiff of supremacy in that statement and from her tone, whether it was an intentional snooty put-down or not. I was tempted to stop and close at that point.

My contention is that you cannot build guitars unless you have a strong appreciation for issues that commonly affect guitars and necessitate repairs, and if you intend designing your own guitars it is worthwhile knowing why those issues occur and what design features might prevent these issues from happening on your own models, or at least you should try and mitigate them. As a "luthier" you need to be prepared to be a "repair person" and deal with warranty repairs competently and in a cost effective manner. Not every repair is going to involve removing the soundboard or back for easy access and then a rebuild and refinish.

I suspect in a male-dominated industry she has had to develop a certain presence to succeed, I wouldn't necessarily hold it against her.

Be nice if we could get her as a member actually, the more pros we have on TFB the better.

mgaw · June 2022

All show was the impression I got from her. She hasn’t done the time to get the skills to charge that huge amount of money.

Social media froth.

darthed1981 · June 2022

mgaw said:

All show was the impression I got from her. She hasn’t done the time to get the skills to charge that huge amount of money.

I don't think anyone can justify that amount for a guitar personally, but YMMV.

Ultimately the market decides, at 6k plus a pop she won't last long unless her feedback is absolutely stellar.

mgaw · June 2022

I can’t help but feel she is using the Luthier title as a vehicle . If she truly loved building guitars she would be …,… building guitars

TheMadMick · June 2022

Interesting that this thread ended up next to another asking about buying a 70's acoustic for £300 - 400?

mgaw · June 2022

darthed1981 said:

BillDL said:

An April 2022 Daisy Tempest video just popped up in my YouTube "recommended" list, so I decided to have a look. I won't be watching any more. At the very outset she explains "Just before I go any further I should note that I'm not a guitar repair person, I'm a guitar builder - a luthier". I got a strong whiff of supremacy in that statement and from her tone, whether it was an intentional snooty put-down or not. I was tempted to stop and close at that point.

My contention is that you cannot build guitars unless you have a strong appreciation for issues that commonly affect guitars and necessitate repairs, and if you intend designing your own guitars it is worthwhile knowing why those issues occur and what design features might prevent these issues from happening on your own models, or at least you should try and mitigate them. As a "luthier" you need to be prepared to be a "repair person" and deal with warranty repairs competently and in a cost effective manner. Not every repair is going to involve removing the soundboard or back for easy access and then a rebuild and refinish.

I suspect in a male-dominated industry she has had to develop a certain presence to succeed, I wouldn't necessarily hold it against her.

Be nice if we could get her as a member actually, the more pros we have on TFB the better.

There are some outstanding builders who happen to be female. Deeply committed to their craft like turnstone guitars , Peggy white etc.

maybe like comparing Raymond Blanc, outstanding chef to someone like Ainsley Harriet tv personality with limited cooking skills.

Nothing wrong with either path but AH didn’t pretend to be top flight at all. Or indeed even a chef

barnstorm · June 2022

She's selling a story rather than instruments, which will appeal to a certain sort of collector/patron. Whether there are enough of those folks to keep her in business ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, but given how hard it is to make a decent living as a luthier I can understand her having a crack at doing it this way. Tremendously irritating marketing fluff, but none of us have to engage with things we don't like.

earwighoney · June 2022

mgaw said:

I can’t help but feel she is using the Luthier title as a vehicle . If she truly loved building guitars she would be …,… building guitars

There's nothing wrong with doing things on social media, Ben Crowe of Crimson Guitars does a lot on social media, gets a lot of YT views and does an excellent job at teaching the techniques of the trade.

darthed1981 said:
I don't think anyone can justify that amount for a guitar personally, but YMMV.

There are a number of acoustic luthiers who charge £6k for their instruments. When I first saw that was her price, I thought of a guy who used to post on one of another forum I post on, who's charges about the same, his fit and finish looks as good as anything.

Have a look at his work if you have the time.

https://www.mcgreevyguitars.com/gallery

Wazmeister · June 2022

I think she has started to serve an apprenticeship, and I wish her well.

I still think it’s amazing she didn’t have a model for them to demo and showcase. I’d imagine she would got a few sales from it…

mgaw · June 2022

earwighoney said:

mgaw said:

I can’t help but feel she is using the Luthier title as a vehicle . If she truly loved building guitars she would be …,… building guitars

There's nothing wrong with doing things on social media, Ben Crowe of Crimson Guitars does a lot on social media, gets a lot of YT views and does an excellent job at teaching the techniques of the trade.

darthed1981 said:
I don't think anyone can justify that amount for a guitar personally, but YMMV.

There are a number of acoustic luthiers who charge £6k for their instruments. When I first saw that was her price, I thought of a guy who used to post on one of another forum I post on, who's charges about the same, his fit and finish looks as good as anything.

Have a look at his work if you have the time.
https://www.mcgreevyguitars.com/gallery

Good example Crimson guitars especially the teaching the tricks of the trade bit. Not sure the she has that in her arsenal

good luck to the her I say.

It’s still Froth though

darthed1981 · June 2022

earwighoney said:

Have a look at his work if you have the time.
https://www.mcgreevyguitars.com/gallery

Beautiful work to be sure

darthed1981 · June 2022

... I think we all wish Daisy the very best, I'm sure someone will show her this thread, and be great to see some of her work.

mgaw · June 2022

https://youtu.be/y2BO9b-ZiK0

Here’s one in action at 2.10 it’s just the guitar

steveh · June 2022

mgaw said:

https://youtu.be/y2BO9b-ZiK0

Here’s one in action at 2.10 it’s just the guitar

You're dead right: "It's just THE guitar", as in singular

bertie · June 2022

steveh said:

mgaw said:

https://youtu.be/y2BO9b-ZiK0

Here’s one in action at 2.10 it’s just the guitar

You're dead right: "It's just THE guitar", as in singular

I believe there are two ?

steveh · June 2022

bertie said:

steveh said:

mgaw said:

https://youtu.be/y2BO9b-ZiK0

Here’s one in action at 2.10 it’s just the guitar

You're dead right: "It's just THE guitar", as in singular

I believe there are two ?

Yes, you're right.
Waiting for the third.

steveh · June 2022

Interestingly, this appeared on her Instagram yesterday:

"So, I have laid out in a digital course what I’ve discovered to work in the creative industries when it comes to growing a business of this nature - from my own experience and practice. It will cover the basics - from writing good emails to press and brands, to social media strategy, to valuable content creation. There’s a link in my bio to a sign-up sheet which will mean you are notified before the course goes live when you’ll be offered an early bird discount."

So she's now promulgating (and charging) for her views on how to succeed in bsuiness.
On the basis of what? Two finished guitars and some internet "fluff"? How is that a "grown" business?
The first two questions I'd ask anyone claiming to have a successful business are, A; how long has your business been viable and, B; is your turnover/profit adequate to support a reasonable lifestyle?

I feel bad about the beef this young woman is getting here and I really would like her to suceed, but IMHO she needs to take a long hard look at Rosie Heydenrych, who has stood by her bench patiently for years, grafting hard and gradually improving the quality of her work. The result is that Rosie now builds a very nice guitar and can easily substantiate any claims to being a gifted "luthier". Generally, there are no short cuts, irrespective of whatever job it is we do.

earwighoney · June 2022

steveh said:

So she's now promulgating (and charging) for her views on how to succeed in bsuiness.
On the basis of what? Two finished guitars and some internet "fluff"? How is that a "grown" business?
The first two questions I'd ask anyone claiming to have a successful business are, A; how long has your business been viable and, B; is your turnover/profit adequate to support a reasonable lifestyle?

I think her online presence is her business, on the grounds she is an influencer firstly and a luthier secondly.

guitarjack66 · June 2022

earwighoney said:

steveh said:

So she's now promulgating (and charging) for her views on how to succeed in bsuiness.
On the basis of what? Two finished guitars and some internet "fluff"? How is that a "grown" business?
The first two questions I'd ask anyone claiming to have a successful business are, A; how long has your business been viable and, B; is your turnover/profit adequate to support a reasonable lifestyle?

I think her online presence is her business, on the grounds she is an influencer firstly and a luthier secondly.

If I was able to spend 6k on a guitar I wouldnt be doing it with somebody who prioritises the internet over making guitars. If those two reasons were the other way round I'd be more inclined.

Jez6345789 · June 2022

Yeah following on from my previous comments and nobody wants to be rounding on a young person starting out but frankly putting the time into developing an online marketing course seems crazy when the time would be better used getting your head down doing the graft build guitars get good same as Rosie and most have done. Not having a demo guitar people can have a look at or try especially as she is only making one model at this point seems like lost opportunity.

I really hope it all works out we need new luthiers and business in the uk.

euan · June 2022

Same category as all those “investors” selling courses in how you too can be a successful person like them.

DrCornelius · June 2022

guitarjack66 said:

earwighoney said:

steveh said:

So she's now promulgating (and charging) for her views on how to succeed in bsuiness.
On the basis of what? Two finished guitars and some internet "fluff"? How is that a "grown" business?
The first two questions I'd ask anyone claiming to have a successful business are, A; how long has your business been viable and, B; is your turnover/profit adequate to support a reasonable lifestyle?

I think her online presence is her business, on the grounds she is an influencer firstly and a luthier secondly.

If I was able to spend 6k on a guitar I wouldnt be doing it with somebody who prioritises the internet over making guitars. If those two reasons were the other way round I'd be more inclined.

Unfortunately I think it’s the way of the world for lots of younger people now - they grew up at a time when your online presence was the thing you concentrated on before the product .

Shes young and obviously passionate about working with guitars so fingers crossed it all works out for her - we are all allowed a few mistakes along the way

Mellish · June 2022

@DrCornelius ; - yep, it's the way youngsters do things today.

As someone first pointed out above, she missed a trick not having one of her builds on the Andertons video.

I've watched her on YT. She seems to know what she's doing, and I wish her well. BUT, charging £6k with just two known builds behind her? I'm not sure about that

BillDL · June 2022

I don't know if anybody follows the YouTube videos by Chris Alvarado of Florida based Driftwood Guitars. He is a fine player who has been building lovely guitars for quite some time. The base price is around $15,000. Whether they are worth that price is subjective but he has a long waiting list and he has a wealth of experience. He realised how YouTube could be harnessed and took on a partner/employee who was experienced in digital media and electronics to launch his YouTube channel. Clearly he is now making sponsorship money from StewMac by recommending some of their tools in his videos, but the bulk of his videos are proper showcases of his skill and of his guitar builds. He doesn't need gimmicks and doesn't use them. Yes, he does use a few clickbaity captions, but who doesn't these days.

Anyway, I need to get to bed. I have a three day training course starting this morning after which I will be qualified as a "life coach" and can them become a YouTube "influencer"

Image: /plugins/EmojiExtender/emoji/fb/3.gif

Tannin · June 2022

steveh said:

I think that's because she is on her second own-label guitar...ever.

Her guitars are not exactly cheap, especially considering how few she has made.

Look at it this way: you could slave away for 10 or 20 years, slowly building a reputation and honing your skills, gradually being able to raise your prices as the word spreads.

Or you could blitz Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook all in a single year, maybe at most two, and straight away sell a handful of instruments for crazy-high prices. If you are only building 4 or 5 a year, you only need to find 4 or 5 idiots with a lot of money on social media, and social media has idiots like a beach has sand.* And some of the idiots are bound to have money.

You can't short-cut success. Except that you can.

Disclaimer: I haven't watched the video, and have never heard of most of the people mentioned in this thread. I'm just ruminating on how marketing works these days.

* Sorry, rocks - I forgot this is a UK forum for a moment there.

WezV · June 2022

When i was first starting out i was told you should build 10 guitars before even contemplating selling one.

I think Asimov said something similar about writing. His view, iirc, was you should write a million words and throw them away before you attempt to get anything published.

This is not a modern view. Most build one, at most two, guitars before they start believing it can make them a living. Some of those have disappeared before they get to 10. Some are better at marketing and business and manage to go quite far. Some rebrand themselves every few yesrs so their early work is hidden from public view.

Not sure im the best to comment as ive been bulding 20 years, at least a couple of guitars each year, sometimes as many as 10, but its not been a success for me either. Thankfully im mainly doing it for fun at this point

There is no right way through this. Daisy has some good experience from those she has worked with which puts her in a good place to develop well. Bringing some understanding of social media to the craft is no bad thing, if she gets it right I hope she gets to the point her guitars are worth the £6k asking price. She has left herself no room for error.

Gandalph · June 2022

WezV said:

When i was first starting out i was told you should build 10 guitars before even contemplating selling one.

I think Asimov said something similar about writing. His view, iirc, was you should write a million words and throw them away before you attempt to get anything published.

This!!

Maybe she deserves credit on a certain level just for the sheer brass of it all but I really hope nobody I know falls for it and buys one.

Adamski · June 2022

So the only guitar she’s sold is owned by Ramsay Bolton?

BillDL · June 2022

The power of YouTube and other forms of social media cannot be lightly dismissed. I suspect she will make more money than she could do building and selling guitars by simply doing a multi-video series of the steps involved with building one guitar from start to finish. The videos will be cleverly edited and she will be sponsored by tool makers and parts suppliers. She will be invited into collaboration videos with other YouTube celebrities and will be invited to visit large guitar retailers and manufacturers in other countries. Assuming that she is careful not to dismiss other builders and her mentors, or say anything else out of place, she will not incur the wrath of followers and will quickly become a YouTube celebrity herself. I look forward to a "how to build guitars" book from her in a year's time. That's how things are done these days whether we like it or not.

stickyfiddle · June 2022

I don't think we have enough evidence to comment on the guitars, but they look very well made & finished, and at least the design is its own thing. I won't be buying one because they're double what I spent on my most expensive and that one was a leap in itself - not to mention I bought it used so could play it with my own hands and ears before committing to spend money.

What I will say is she is head & shoulders above 95% of the competition on marketing, and I can absolutely see that being her most in-demand skill going forward. I'm quite sure someone like Bob Taylor or Dana Bourgeois could talk rings around her in terms of what makes a great guitar, but she's the one getting in front of people through new channels like tiktok, instagram and and youtube, and not just magazine interviews read by people waiting for trains.

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Daisy Tempest On Andertons - Interesting Video

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